Ducati Monster Forum

Kitchen Sink => No Moto Content => Topic started by: Slide Panda on July 20, 2011, 10:13:33 AM

Title: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: Slide Panda on July 20, 2011, 10:13:33 AM
A little experiment/contest by VW. They set up a speed camera in a metro intersection in conjuration with the city. Speeders were photographed and fined. Those not speeding were photographed and entered in a lottery to win from the pool of cash garnered from the offenders.

Most times the carrot works better...

http://consumerist.com/2010/12/traffic-camera-enters-speed-limit-abiding-drivers-into-lottery.html (http://consumerist.com/2010/12/traffic-camera-enters-speed-limit-abiding-drivers-into-lottery.html)
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: spolic on July 20, 2011, 10:32:50 AM
Speeding or not....I prefer not to have my picture taken.
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: Buckethead on July 20, 2011, 11:09:03 AM
A great experiment in microcosm, but it'll never catch on. There is no cash benefit to the municipality/county/state. Just increased safety.
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: zarn02 on July 20, 2011, 12:17:00 PM
Quote from: Buckethead on July 20, 2011, 11:09:03 AM
A great experiment in microcosm, but it'll never catch on. There is no cash benefit to the municipality/county/state. Just increased safety.

+1
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: corey on July 20, 2011, 12:36:35 PM
increased safety sounds like a great benefit to the state...
oh wait... you mean the STATE.
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: RAT900 on July 20, 2011, 10:32:56 PM
Here in NYC metro-land the new fad is to install traffic cams at the worst intersections

and mail out tickets with pictures

it is a bonanza of fresh revenue for the counties

rather than fixing the worst and busiest intersections with turn arrows and turn lanes

they are capitalizing on/exploiting the driver caught out in the intersection trying to cross the oncoming traffic

forced to wait until the light turns to complete the turn

further reinforcing the government concept of "if its broken, make money off it"
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: zarn02 on July 21, 2011, 12:58:44 AM
Yeah... that sounds about right.

(http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/demotivators/consultingdemotivationalposter.jpg)
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: Mother on July 21, 2011, 01:02:03 AM
Quote from: RAT900 on July 20, 2011, 10:32:56 PM
Here in NYC metro-land the new fad is to install traffic cams at the worst intersections

and mail out tickets with pictures

it is a bonanza of fresh revenue for the counties

rather than fixing the worst and busiest intersections with turn arrows and turn lanes

they are capitalizing on/exploiting the driver caught out in the intersection trying to cross the oncoming traffic

forced to wait until the light turns to complete the turn

further reinforcing the government concept of "if its broken, make money off it"

Oh bullshit

It's your responsibility to not cross the line into the intersection until you have a clear path for your vehicle.

No one is forcing a person out into the intersection during a green light when it isn't clear to complete the turn in one move

It is standard driver impatience and the city is capitalizing on it

Good for them
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: RAT900 on July 21, 2011, 02:22:49 AM
The congestion levels are a reality especially during commutation hours

the government has elected to fund cameras

rather than fund re-engineering of identified problem intersections

with traffic backed up 1/4 mile or more heading in either direction waiting to get through the lights

it is hardly driver impatience, turning across the oncoming stream

becomes a logistical impossibility

but yes "good for them" they are serving their needs rather than the actual needs of the public...

definitely a good government practice



Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: Mother on July 21, 2011, 02:41:00 AM
Quote from: RAT900 on July 21, 2011, 02:22:49 AM
The congestion levels are a reality especially during commutation hours

the government has elected to fund cameras

rather than fund re-engineering of identified problem intersections

with traffic backed up 1/4 mile or more heading in either direction waiting to get through the lights

it is hardly driver impatience, turning across the oncoming stream

becomes a logistical impossibility



regardless of the logistical impossibility

a driver is not "forced" to break the traffic law

the driver can find another route

or

wait until they can properly clear the intersection in order to proceed in the safe manner that doesn't violate the gridlock laws

the reason they don't is simply impatience and disregard
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: Mother on July 21, 2011, 02:58:27 AM
(mo0ment of clarity)

I just got off shift

my last call was a truck vs. a house

the driver "was forced" to swerve and avoid a <insert fantasy creature here> and ran over a couple in their living room

I have zero patience left for make the beast with two backsing drivers and their complete lack of regard

I'm going to go to bed now and not take it out on the DMF

sorry rat

Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: RAT900 on July 21, 2011, 04:54:00 AM
N/P Mother

clearly there is a lot of heat

in your kitchen of choice  ;)
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: cokey on July 22, 2011, 11:12:15 AM
If cars were to wait till it was clear instead of waiting in the T for the light to change, traffic would never move.. a 10 min ride wld be an hour or an extra 5 miles finding another route.. I'm all for saftey but f that bs..  most times, that's the only way your ever making a turn..   watch out guys, end of the month is nearing..
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: Mother on July 22, 2011, 08:19:20 PM
Quote from: cokey on July 22, 2011, 11:12:15 AM
If cars were to wait till it was clear instead of waiting in the T for the light to change, traffic would never move.. a 10 min ride wld be an hour or an extra 5 miles finding another route.. I'm all for saftey but f that bs..  most times, that's the only way your ever making a turn..   watch out guys, end of the month is nearing..

and thats why I have a job

[bang]
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: Kopfjäger on July 22, 2011, 08:40:40 PM
I always thought (maybe they changed the rule from place to place), but if you are sitting in the intersection and
the light turns red you can make the turn. (?) I have done this since the early 70's without receiving a piece of paper.
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: Mother on July 22, 2011, 09:13:58 PM
Quote from: kopfjäger on July 22, 2011, 08:40:40 PM
I always thought (maybe they changed the rule from place to place), but if you are sitting in the intersection and
the light turns red you can make the turn. (?) I have done this since the early 70's without receiving a piece of paper.

the idea is you shouldn't be sitting "in" the intersection, you should be waiting at the line for the intersection to clear for you to make your turn... or to procede through

the law (in oregon) states you can pause briefly in an intersection in order to let a car pass the emphasis is on "A" car

the common
(and apparently socially acceptable)

practice of pulling into the intersection and waiting
(due to high congestion)

until the light turns red to complete your turn is illegal

and in my current delicate condition

highly make the beast with two backsing irritating

but i'm overly sensitive and hyper critical

Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: RAT900 on July 22, 2011, 09:20:33 PM
From NYS DMV Manual

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/dmanual/chapter05-manual.htm (http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/dmanual/chapter05-manual.htm)

If drivers approaching from opposite directions reach an intersection at about the same time, a driver turning left must yield to approaching traffic going straight or turning right.

Example: You want to turn left at an intersection ahead. A vehicle is approaching from the opposite direction, going straight ahead. You must wait for approaching traffic to go through before you turn. You may enter the intersection, however, to prepare for your left turn if the light is green and no other vehicle ahead of you is preparing for a left turn (see "Turns" later in this chapter). When you enter the intersection, stay to the right of the center line. Keep your wheels straight to avoid being pushed into oncoming traffic should a rear-end collision occur. When approaching traffic clears or stops for a red light, complete your turn.


Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: Mother on July 22, 2011, 09:25:15 PM
and that goes right along with the oregon law

with the emphesis on "A" vehicle

singular

but

in your scenario when the other drivers have congested the intersection and it is obvious that the intersection is not clear, and wont be clear in the next moment, pulling out into the intersection to wait until the red light clears it in order to make your turn is not legal

Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: Mother on July 22, 2011, 09:30:51 PM
AND

if its legal in New York

well

then New York sucks and they can all go to hell
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: RAT900 on July 22, 2011, 09:31:57 PM
The scenario in NY is a continuous oncoming stream of traffic

and at times oncoming traffic backed up into the intersection

with assholes not even leaving you a space to make your left while they gridlock

you can be first in line at the light when it turns green

move into the intersection when that light turns green

but there is no assurance you will have an opportunity to complete your turn

against oncoming traffic

until the last oncoming car has blown through the yellow trying to beat the camera
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: Mother on July 22, 2011, 11:02:33 PM
Quote from: RAT900 on July 22, 2011, 09:31:57 PM
The scenario in NY is a continuous oncoming stream of traffic

and at times oncoming traffic backed up into the intersection

with assholes not even leaving you a space to make your left while they gridlock

you can be first in line at the light when it turns green

move into the intersection when that light turns green

but there is no assurance you will have an opportunity to complete your turn

against oncoming traffic

until the last oncoming car has blown through the yellow trying to beat the camera

Yes I understand

and

in that exact scenario you aren't supposed to enter the intersection and wait till the red to turn

that just lumps you into the same category with all the rest of the assholes who are doing the exact same thing while proceeding through the intersection

it just proliferates an already make the beast with two backsed up situation

now, while I sit and observe the situation from up here on my pedestal

I haven't the foggiest clue how to actually do anything about the situation besides piss and moan
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: Buckethead on July 22, 2011, 11:37:05 PM
Dedicated left turn lanes with protected green arrows.

-OR-

A pandemic.

Either way.
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: Kopfjäger on July 23, 2011, 12:47:38 AM
Quote from: Jacob on July 22, 2011, 09:25:15 PM
and that goes right along with the oregon law

with the emphesis on "A" vehicle

singular

but

in your scenario when the other drivers have congested the intersection and it is obvious that the intersection is not clear, and wont be clear in the next moment, pulling out into the intersection to wait until the red light clears it in order to make your turn is not legal



Wrong....the "A" vehicle is you/me....the congestion is from the oncoming traffic.
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: Mother on July 23, 2011, 01:14:14 AM
Quote from: kopfjäger on July 23, 2011, 12:47:38 AM
Wrong....the "A" vehicle is you/me....the congestion is from the oncoming traffic.

yeah true

Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: Raux on July 23, 2011, 04:27:00 AM
Quote from: Jacob on July 21, 2011, 01:02:03 AM
Oh bullshit

It's your responsibility to not cross the line into the intersection until you have a clear path for your vehicle.

No one is forcing a person out into the intersection during a green light when it isn't clear to complete the turn in one move

It is standard driver impatience and the city is capitalizing on it

Good for them

actually the law says that if you are more than 3/4 into the intersection you have the right to clear that intersection BEFORE the other traffic can enter it. Arizona traffic school taught me that.

AND this helps reduce conjestion in busy intersections as more vehicles can take the unprotected left turns.
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: lethe on July 23, 2011, 04:34:17 AM
Quote from: Jacob on July 22, 2011, 11:02:33 PM
Yes I understand

and

in that exact scenario you aren't supposed to enter the intersection and wait till the red to turn

that just lumps you into the same category with all the rest of the assholes who are doing the exact same thing while proceeding through the intersection

it just proliferates an already make the beast with two backsed up situation

now, while I sit and observe the situation from up here on my pedestal

I haven't the foggiest clue how to actually do anything about the situation besides piss and moan
your pedestal has a poor view plus you discount the existence of taxis and the dreaded black cars. Following the traffic rules to the letter of the law means never getting across the street in NYC. It's a whole different ballgame and logic does not apply.
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: djrashonal on July 23, 2011, 07:13:22 AM
Quote from: Raux on July 23, 2011, 04:27:00 AM

AND this helps reduce conjestion in busy intersections as more vehicles can take the unprotected left turns.

Congestion in AZ? Bah? This is baffling!
Title: Re: Speed cameras - the carrot method
Post by: Autostrada Pilot on July 28, 2011, 10:29:15 AM
Quote from: lethe on July 23, 2011, 04:34:17 AM
your pedestal has a poor view plus you discount the existence of taxis and the dreaded black cars. Following the traffic rules to the letter of the law means never getting across the street in NYC. It's a whole different ballgame and logic does not apply.

+1  I both love, and hate, driving in NYC.