Ducati Monster Forum

Hey y'all:

So, my 15 1/2 year old (step) son is very determinedly trying to talk me into letting him get a bike instead of a car for his first vehicle (he wants a 250.)  Here in California, once he turns 15 1/2 and does the MSF course, he can get a learner's permit from the DMV that allows him to ride during the day, on surface streets.  He's not permitted to ride at night, on the freeway or to take passengers.  These restrictions legally stay in place until he's 16 and can get his actual license.

I'm of two minds on this.  On one hand, I LOVE to ride, and the idea of introducing him to the sport and riding together is very appealing.  He's also a natural athlete (already 6'1", very coordinated), and I suspect he will quickly develop good skills.  Having a bike would also enable him to easily get himself to school, baseball practice, girlfriend's house, etc.  We live in a mostly rural area (Topanga Canyon), so most of his riding would be on canyon roads or in the suburbs.  I would also take him to do Keith Code's school as soon as he was old enough, so he really knew his fundamentals.  And he'd have access to a car when the weather gets crappy (only a short part of the year here in So Cal.)

On the other hand, I know what an idiot I was at that age (I totaled my Toyota pickup at 19, and the only reason I didn't do it sooner was dumb luck.)  Although I was more rational than many of my friends, I still liked to show off and took stupid risks.  I also partied way too much.

I never had a bike back then though (just for a minute in my early 20s, and I sold it pretty quick.)  Riding is a more recent love of mine.  I shudder to think of what would have happened had I been on a bike instead of in my car when I had my one serious accident.

Now, my step-son is a pretty level-headed kid, gets good grades, isn't into drugs, and has a much better level of self-awareness than I did at his age.  But he's still a TEENAGER, and the words TEENAGER plus MOTORCYCLE kind of freak me out.  Even though I'm addicted to my own ride...

So, here are my questions:

Have any of you allowed your kids to start riding on the street at this age?  If so, what made you decide to do so?   What policies or ground rules did you put in place?  And what are the results?

Conversely, have any of you decided NOT to let your kids start riding at this age?  If not, why? 

I realize that to some of you, this is probably a very stupid question with an obvious answer (LET THE KID RIDE, DAMMIT!)  But I don't want to irresponsibly give him the green light on something that he may not really be ready for.  I'm sure you parents out there get this.  Thanks in advance for your thoughts...   

Topangster

I ain't no parent, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Not terribly long ago, I was a teenager. I was level headed, well coordinated, got good grades, worked hard, and wasn't into drugs.



I got a car.



I was a f'n idiot. Complete moron.



My future kids? Unless they've been riding dirtbikes with the old man since forever, probably no.


You could also add the caveat one moving violation and the bike goes away.

I'm not a parent, but I'd recommend against it.

He needs to learn about handling traffic first.  That is best done in a car (something used, and cheap).

IMO, it is too much to expect someone to learn both the coordination needed to ride, along with learning how to deal with traffic (especially on California roads).

How about a used car and a dirt bike?

I guess another compromise could be a scooter.

Answer is No, stall as long as you can.

My 16 year old son also wants to learn. No way for him. He doesn't make all good grades and he talks like a "teenager" about driving/riding. I won't let him drive anything until he gets at least a 3.0 GPA and nothing below a C. If your son is level headed and responsible, what the heck? Why not? If  you suspect he's "normal" and will push his abilities and take risks than forget it. You know your son. Maybe have some strict rules to go along with riding. First offense is the last...blah blah blah.

I wish my son were more responsible. I would love to ride with him. He just doesn't give me enough reason to trust him :(.

i rode a dirtbike for a million years before i got a streetbike... and i had three of those before i got a car... and i was a jackass everytime i got into my parents car...

i'm thinking its a lot to ask a young person to handle the risk and responsibility of a road bike as a first vehicle...

best to screw up with a few tons of steel around you.

but that's just my .02

+11tyb  [thumbsup]

NO.  thats all I heard throughout my teenage years.  Even though I really wanted that Ninja, i knew deep down inside that the risks would outweigh the happiness a bike would bring me.  Looking back, I'm glad my mum stood her ground on that one. 

I am a parent and a pretty good one at that. Like I tell my kids, if you have to stop and ask yourself, "am I doing the right thing" you probably already know the answer. The answer here is NO!

My fifteen year old daughter has already picked out a Ninja 250 at the local shop. She has been riding a dirt bike for several years now and has a real knack for it. I was not the one who got her into bikes, but both she and her older brother grew up riding with me and love it.

Good luck here. One part of me wants to let my little Rachael, 5'10" - 125 lbs. and beautiful, have a bike, but the rest of me says, "what the make the beast with two backs are you thinking"?

Good luck again.

LA

Both of my kids ride, one is an enthusiast.  Both had been riding small dirt bikes around the yard since they were little, but no serious riding.  Oldest son got his drivers license late, and so far has just renewed his MC learners permit.

Second son got his drivers license the day he turned 16.  Within 2 weeks he got his MC learners permit with our blessing.  He did have many thousands of miles behind the wheel, we did some serious road trips.  We live in a rural setting so traffic volumes are fairly low and a good place to learn.

First year I let him ride my XT600.  He rode the wheels off it, and beginning of second season went down and rashed it up good.  He lost a few bucks worth of hide where gloves meet jacket sleeves etc.  The message is GOOD GEAR, WEAR IT.  Every Time.  After my wife didn't kill me, we started looking for another ride.  I set a horsepower limit of 60.  Lots of old Japanese cruisers etc out there but they are not cool.

We found a Yamaha SRX6 and fetched that home from down near Arkansas.  Cool looking bike, decent handling and only around 45 HP.  He fell of of that once but nothing too serious, and he had the gear on.  Most of it anyhow.  He received a world class a$$ chewing in front of the cop and paramedic for skimping on the gear on a hot day.

I went riding with him after a couple years on that and realized he was taking the bike to it's limit.  We talked about stepping up and agreed on a sub ~80 HP limit.  That's when the Monster bug bit.  He found a deal on CL, 95 M900 with less than 3k miles.  We bought it and he spent a summer riding it and working the bugs out of it.  Once it was running good I rode it and dang if I didn't need one too! I have a 96!

Besides rain at Road America there is one constant in motorcycling.  If you ride, you will fall down.  Accept it and prepare for it.  Wear the gear, good gear.  Start small, learn to ride, I mean really learn to ride.  Mine has fallen off the Monster a couple times, and I am sure he aint done yet.  One of his buddies picked up an old 650 twin Yamaha and they learned together.  So far so good.

Oh ya, the rules.

Motorcycle key was the first and most effective form of negative reinforcement for any transgression.
NO TICKETS
I defined his riding area, geographic limits
No crossing the 4 lane divided at an uncontrolled intersection etc
WEAR THE GEAR

He's 19 now and just finished great first year at college.

I also knew a guy bought his kid a 600 sport bike as a first ride for a rank novice.  That didn't work out so hot.


Did I mention good gear, wear it?  Every Time!

Realistically you should have him drive a car first to familiarize him with traffic and how hectic things can really be.  I live in the valley too and even Topanga Canyon can get a bit crazy at times.  Many of my friends bought their bikes at around 16-17 years of age and every single one of them totaled their bikes and got into serious accidents.  Of all my close friends that ride or did ride (about 6), 4 of them got into serious accidents before reaching 21.  One of them took his cbr f4i into the canyons and slammed into the railing, breaking his leg in 5 places, suffering a concussion, cracked ribs and had to be airlifted out.

It may have been a while since some of you all were teens, but not that long ago for me.  And I very much remember how invincible I thought I was.  I would advise adamantly against allowing a teen to ride a street bike, no matter the displacement.  Get him a car and if budget allows, get him a dirt bike.  When he reaches 18 or 19 (preferably later still) then consideration for a bike should be in sight. 

I think of bikes like guns.  They should be trained to properly use and respect them from a very very young age if you want them to own one as a teenager. 

There is no way I would have survived having a street bike during those years. I barely survived having a fullsize truck. I did so much stupid shit when I was that age  trying to impress friends or just myself I am suprised I am still here. I grew up riding dirt bikes, three wheelers, and four wheelers but would have gotten into way much trouble on a street bike. Just my $.02. Great thread by the way.

Hmmm...

 I'll speak from my experience, and take from it what you will.

I got my first street bike when I was 16. It was a CBR 600. My parent's didn't buy it for me, I got it through my own means. By that time, I had several years of dirt riding beneath me, and almost 2 full years of driving on my own.

I was valedictorian of my graduating class and was never into drugs.

That said, I was pretty stupid. The 600 was a terrible choice for a 1st bike, and I'm frankly surprised I have all my limbs still with me.

I am pretty much the only person in my family with any interest whatsoever in motorcycles. I know that if my dad had ridden, and he would have taken the time to teach me how to ride and how to do it properly, I would've avoided several "incidents". That is the way I was taught how to drive (when I was 12) and I have not had any accidents to this day on my car, and I am not a conservative driver.

If you dedicate the time to teach him how to ride properly, and do the schools with him and take him on rides, not only will you be able to teach your son how to be a conscientious rider, but you will also be able to "shape" his abilities the best way you see fit (as well as some pretty damn awesome bonding time).

What I would recommend is getting the bike, but keeping the keys. Only allow him to ride with you, on sunday rides and such, until which time you deem him ready for riding solo. This will not only allow you to watch his progress very closely, but it would be a good compromise (he gets what he wants, and you get what you want)

If he truly is the level headed kid that you say he is, things will be fine, Of course he will go down, eventually, but if you drill the importance of good gear into him, he's gonna be fine in case of a get down.

a huge +1 on the traffic violation thing.

Cheers,

M

Do you think he could respect riding a bike the same way you do?  What about when peer pressure is involved? 

i would have to say no. you know your kid best, you will make the best decision. take him to the dirt, take him to the track, find a balance.... good luck.

Just pay some hot, slightly older college girl to tell him how *hot* she thinks bicycles are. It could work.

wow, this sounds exactly what i *wished* i had written. Well said mister.

i have to agree with msincredible, traffic in california can be crazy, no matter where you are in this wacky state. a couple years of driving a beater car around will learn him the ways of the road and give him a taste with a little protection.  i also agree with el matador about riding together.  i dont know the situation of who is funding the bike purchase, but maybe a deal where he pays for a car and later gets the bike for weekend rides.

I am a proud new parent of nearly three month old girl.  I have thought about when she gets older and if she wants to ride and my thoughts are just about exactly what bigbore4 has said here.  Close parental involvement is key I think. 

I got a Honda 50 when I was 16 and rode w/ a couple of neighbor boys my age. We rode to the pool and around the area close to our homes. Never did we venture on the Highway until once an older guy from down the road on a Triumph 650 talked us into riding w/ him and we went further than we had ever gone .

In fact we road about 3 miles from home and got stopped by a Highway Patrolman because we didn't look old enough to be riding. We had to go to Juvenile Traffic court for some violation we were cited for and as a result I lost my riding privledges for some time.

I was ok until I got to be in my late teens and got a 650 BSA Spitfire and started riding with a group of older riders on the weekends when I'd come home from University. We drank beer and road and did crazy things that could have got us killed.

I lived in rural Ohio and I'm sure it was different especially in the mid to late 60s.

When Dad let me drive the car when I was 16 , I was worse than I was on the bike. Usually had 3 or 4 of us in the car and we just had to find mischief.

If you trust your boy , lay down the law and enforce it and let him have a small bike.

Thank you... Sometimes you learn from experience  [bang] [bang] [bang]

I only try to help people learn from my stupidity...

Another thing to take into account, is that if you do buy him the bike, you can control what type of bike he is riding and make sure he rides according to his ability.

If you refuse him the bike now, He is only gonna find a way to get it afterwards when he is in college, and by that time he will have the I am a big man, I don't have to listen to you syndrome, and the 250 is a terribly uncool bike to have in college.

I worked at a motorcycle store for a while, and you'd be surprised how many dumbasses (like me) showed up with an R6 or a CBR600 or a GSXR 750 for their first bike, Having absolutely no experience in riding...

Furthermore, having him in your house for the first several year of his riding will give him the obligation to do his riding safely (I can't be stupid bc my parents will take away the bike if anything happens) and create a much safer riding in him, than he would otherwise be without your supervision...

Start them young.  Even if not serious offroading, a small bike around a large (2 acre) yard is at least a start and skill builder.  Parental involvement is key too, good point.

Mine drove a cage for a full year on his permit.  Any time we went anywhere, he drove.  Including a camping trip to Yellowstone and The Rockies.  A good head, good gear, parental involvement and some level of experience should set them down the path.

I can't even equate our rural residential living in MN to southern CA.  That is a whole can of you-know-what that the board members from the region can offer up opinions on.

I've only just jumped back on a bike after being off for over 10 years.
Last time I was riding I was 20 or so and for the life of me I can't remember practicing any of the things I do now.
Buffering, reading traffic and trying to expect the unexpected.
I had ridden bicycles on the roads for years but that is a totally different kettle of fish, objects appear much slower.

If I had of kept riding for sure my skills would be far greater now but I am equally sure there'd be a crash or two under my belt.
Everyone crashes eventually, had 2-3 car crashes and if any of them were on two wheels I'd be in different condition today.
So I'd agree with MsIncredible is a cheaper car and dirt bike an option. That way your young fella can get around and you can still start to teach him about motorcycling.

cheers
Matty...

If I would have started riding any sooner than I did at 23, I would not be typing this message.  but everyone is different.  I, in particular, was a very bold youth.

My son is now 2 and 7 months. I am going to start him early. I will order that battery Ducati from Sears for this summer and it should be good next summer as well. Once he outgrows this I will buy one of the little dirt bikes that he can rip up the yard with. I think starting early, close involvement and proper instruction is the key. I much rather go this root then one day when he turns 16, he will come up and says dad I want a bike.

I figure that if he can ride from such a small age he will have lots of experience and I will keep a close eye on his development once he hits the teens and will be able to go on the street.

In your case I guess I would get the bike but put restrictions on it. No riding alone unless I go. But when you do this, the bike will no longer be considered a mode of transportation so hope you can get some beater car he can drive to school and back.

If you do decide to go with it, just keep a close eye and ve involved.

And you never know, he might end up becoming the next Casey Stoner...  ;)

The other advantage to starting 'em early is when they do end up hitting the teens, they might be all ridden out, as in they'd be more level headed with riding and less throttle-heavy.

Good thread guys.....I'm 34 and have a 6 year old kid.  My passion for machines started early on my teen years.  Cars for the big part.  My father was never a car/bike nut like I was.  I got a brand new 1990 Civic Si at 16 that to this date I don't know how I did not get killed or killed somebody else on that car.  I was a very irresponsible teen.  I am not proud of that. Speed was ALWAYS involved, and alcohol too occasionally.  When I finally had the money to buy a street bike, my mom told me that if I bought it I had to get out of the house and live on my own.  Being the brat I was, I did not and I truly believe that if I had bought the bike I would not be here now.  I just bought my son a Razor Pocket Rocket which he rides only with my constant supervision with gear.  I want him to learn the basics and progress in a way that I will buy him a dirt bike next Spring.  I will be involved constantly in this until his old enough to ride in the street with me.  Then again, I think he will be more responsible than I was on my teens.  Good luck with your decision.  I think your involvement is the key.

I am a parent of a 10 year old son. I tell him boys under 30 don't ride motorcycles.  ;)

You might find this article from the NYT interesting;

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/18/health/18brod.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Teenage+Risks%2C+and+How+to+Avoid+Them&st=nyt&oref=slogin

Read the accompanying letters as well, about how the brain develops.

In a nutshell, teens do not have the brain capacity/development or life experience to judge risk accurately. If you do decide to let him get a bike, don't let him ride in situations where mis-judging risk could maim or kill him.

I was riding mopeds at 14 on highways.  Rode the tires off it.  Only crashed once, and taught me a huge lesson.  I got my first streetbike and rode it like a moron, but then again I am almost 40 and still ride like a moron at times.  Evidence, severley sprained wrist from pulling wheelies on my new dirtbike in front of my kids.  Oooh, that one hurt.  You know, maybe an enduro 250 would be a good choice for him.  Kawasaki makes a KLX250 that has about as much power as a lawnmower and would fit his size.  He could use it for on and off road.  I would trust my teenager with that bike. 

Depending upon his riding experience and crash levels, a faster bike would be ok if he knows how much crashing hurts.  Also, if your drove with him on a low traffic road for a week or two that would be good time for instruction and guaging his levels.  A video of the squids doing stunts would be good, too.  Skip the video and go to the outtakes where they show the brand new bikes exploding into pieces, the 911 calls to the dolts who tried to stand on the seats while going down an interstate ( wow, was that guy lucky to live).  Show him the positives of responsible riding and the negatives of irresponsible riding.  Also, if he takes care of his stuff he is less likely to mistreat it.

You could play it safe and not let him ride until he gets older, but I am of the opinion that if you grow up around something, know how to treat it responsibly, and respect it, you are far more likely to have positive results as you get older.  I know guys in their 30's, 40's, 50's who get Hardleys as their first bike and absolutely have no idea whatsoever of proper riding.  Then when they get in an accident, they blame the motorcycle.  I dont know, I think it is foolish to try to keep kids away from doing something because they may get hurt.  Of course that does not mean I let them run loose like idiots, but supervised experiences, good or bad, are lifelong learning experiences. 

I started riding around 9 or 10 in the dirt on a 1984 Honda XR 80.  Dad rode with me on an XR 100 two years newer.  I had a freaking blast.  Had a few get offs on the trail and in the yard, but i quickly learned what improper braking or throttle technique would do to you.  I got bigger/faster bikes as I got older, and eventually we moved into having four wheelers.  I raced motocross through high school and into college, but had to get out of riding because of time issues.  I also know how much crashing hurts though too.  Even when fully geared up in motocross gear and not going that fast in the dirt.  The majority of my riding has been on the dirt, but I have ridden on the street a little when friends let me borrow a bike for a few hours to go riding with them. 

I've wanted a street bike since I was 16, and dad told me no.  But not because I was a bad rider... he knew I wasnt because he trained me.  He was more worried about the other idiots out there in cars that dont pay attention enough to other cars let alone other people out there on motorcycles.  He still doesnt know that I'll be getting a bike in two or three weeks, but I plan on being totally geared up and show up at the house when I decide to let him and mom know.  I also plan on being ATGATT, even when its hot outside or just a quick run to the store. 

If I had started riding at 16 on the street, I dunno what I would be now.  I'm only 24 now, and I personally feel must more responsible and like someone else said, I can read traffic much better and have a better understanding what the idiots are gonna do in the cages.  I totally agree that riding together on the street would be a great learning tool for him, but also it would keep him safe and help to teach him what to do and what not to do. 

Its a tough decision that I'm sure I'll have to go through with my kids one day... so good luck to you.  You have a lot of good ideas here, so let us know what you decide.  And if he gets a bike, WE NEED PICS! :)

I got in more trouble with friends in the car than I ever did driving on my own.
just another thought.

There are restrictions on that for teenagers in California.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/teenweb/dl_btn2/dl.htm

I meant last week.   :)

NO WAY! . I was the same as your son. I wanted a bike when I was 16. My Dad said not until I can pay for Health, Life, Mototrcycle insurance, and pay for the bike. Cause he would not support that at all. Oh and as long as I lived under his roof I could not own a street bike. I grew up riding dirt bikes but he would not alow me to own a street bike as a teenager.
Looking back on that and several small fender benders along the way I am thankful of what he did. I think I need a little time on the road with a cage around me before I rode a motorcycle. He is a motorcyclist and once I finished college first thing I did was buy a bike and now we ride almost every weekend together.  [moto]

 MY 2 cents.

I think you have to realistically look at your son. You know him and what he does/ doesn't do. You know if he is a responsible kid or isn't the most "perfect". Look at the people he hangs out with and what they do etc. If you know that he will ride within limits and respect a bike then i don't see a problem with it. Also I don't know if anyone else brought this up but if he has a job that would be helpful for paying for expenses and gives some sense of responsibility (not sure any summer job for a teen requires that much ;D). I learned on a 125cc dirtbike then my Dads old honda 550. I reccomend thinking about how your son acts everyday and base the descision of how he will act on a bike off that.

Can't trust you anywhere! [laugh]

I didn't get a bike until I was 27. That being said, I have been in numerous accidents in a car, most ALL of them were when I was between the ages of 15-22. (the ones I got into when I was older, I was not at fault)
I got my first car when I was 15 and had my learners permit. That poor car was stomped on, beaten, and left for dead finally at the side of a road. I was lucky to have survived, really, after being in six separate accidents in that car. I was a good student (3.6 gpa) was not into drugs, and had smart(read:geeky!) friends who all ended up being doctors and architects and such. But, I was a teenager, and I did some STUPID stuff when I was learning to drive.

 I also lost a friend in a motorcycle accident my first year in highschool. He was 17. It wasn't even his fault, since he was a passenger on the bike. The other kid was killed too, that rode them into the back of a car waiting to turn. Rural road, no traffic, and they still died.

In my humble and honest opinion, I'd not let a teenager have a motorcycle. I know I won't let my kids have a bike. If I were supervising and we had a dirtbike, then I'd probably let them learn, but no streetbikes. I would also discourage them from getting a bike as a college student. There is a reason insurance is so high for younger riders! My job as a parent is to keep them safe as best I am able. Once they are out of the house there won't be much I can do, but until then I'll do my best.  Good luck, whatever you decide. You know your kid best. I just remember my own teenage years a little to well to be comfortable with the idea of my own kids riding LOL!

Celeste

I vote no. 

When I was 16, I got pretty good grades, stayed out of trouble (for the most part) and I still managed to nearly kill myself in my parents car on more than one occasion (no accidents were my fault).  I shudder to think of those situations if I had been on a bike.  I just wasn't looking out for other drivers mistakes.

My son is 1 year old now so I have awhile to worry about it, but when the time comes he won't be getting a street bike at 16 either.

I think it's just too much for a new driver to have to contend with when first starting out.  Driving defensively is hard enough in a cage let alone a bike. 

Let him get some driving experience under his belt, if he can keep his record clean and can afford one, revisit the situation in another year or two.  Evaluate his driving habits, those of the other drivers in the city you live in and go from there.

I lived BigBores method and rules here. My kids are young but already asking about riding when they get older.
I would say let him learn to ride but with restrictions like BigBore said. HP restrictions, surface streets, no passengers etc till
they are much older. I started riding street bikes at 17 and luckly had gone down enough time on dirt to respect the pavement.
Keep the rules tight and I think he'll be ok.

Moped.  Start with something that he can learn some balance, some traffic, and some responsibility without breaking the bank.  Advantages are it's cheap and he might have to get mechanical with it quickly, not enough power to go on squidly power trips, INSURANCE AFFORDABLE if required at all, and easy parking at school, etc.
Your bottom line might actually have to be the $$!
Moped would answer to that and be a bonus in the ways above.  Save the 250 for when he understands the responsibility and the costs.

I'm 24 and still stupid.  I started riding a few years ago.  Can't imagine if I started earlier, I never would have made it this far.

I have had a bike for the street since i was 18, im 23 now.  And i had my car license at 17 and had been riding dirtbikes since 13.  Do NOT let him have a bike as his first means of transportation.

You need to learn the roads and how to be a good driver before you take a bike onto it.  Get him a car and a cheapo dirtbike to tool around on and learn how to ride.

O and my first bike was a 1982 yamaha virago, it was a standard.  The ninja 250 is a great starter bike when he is ready.  I say wait till 18 and if he still has a level head allow him to get a street bike.

I was thinking about this the other day, and I am with everyone here who says you should hold off until your kid develops a sense for traffic.

You know how we just aware of the cars directly behind us or camped out in your blind spot? We (or at least I) didn't start out with that awareness of the surrounding traffic. It took a couple of years to get to the point where I was almost subconscisously checking my mirrors and maintaining a mental map of the space around me. Now, I think this skill plays the largest part in keeping me safe on the roads.

Why does your kid want ride? If he is more interested in the actual experience of riding a bike—rather than just impressing his friends—than maybe you should let him participate in classes and eventually track days. If I had a kid, I would be much more willing to let him ride hard on a closed track, knowing that he/she is wearing the proper gear, than let him/her joy ride on the streets with his/her idiot friends and other idiot drivers.

If it were my kid it would be a big fat NO, if he wanted a dirt bike [thumbsup] but no street bike.

i'm not a parent, but i was a kid :)

i had a scooter as my first means of transportation  [moto]

i was 16, and i was always a good kid, when i was being watched  ;)

as soon as i was able to break the rules i did, 'cuz that's what most kids do.

Just a couple of bullet points to concur with a bunch of other people.  (Perspective - I'm 38, been riding about 2 years total, AND I'm the divorced father of 2 little boys ages 3 and 5).

- He NEEDS to learn traffic management skills first.  Give him a number like 10,000 miles in a car before he can ride a bike on the streets
- I WISH I had learned on a dirt bike as a youngster.  I really wish I had some riding experience when I was a youngster so I could have a better idea of what kind of a rider I would be.
- Incentives are KEY!!  minumum grade requirements, no tickets, geographic boundaries, odometer checks, etc.

What I'm learning as a father (one who must negotiate with petty, vindictive ex-) is not to just give in or reject outright - especially with something as big as this.  Set parameters you're comfortable with, and stick to them.

Long story short - street bike at 16?  No!  however, you can compromise!

HA! leverage is essential!

Yeah to clarify I would highly recommend a dirtbike if you have an area to ride it.  I learned on a dirtbike at the age of 13 and rode dirtbikes until around 18 or so and it really helped to have that background.  I didnt get a streetbike until I was about 27 though.  My first streetbike was a beat up Ninja 500 and I learned a lot on that bike too.

Dirtbike for a year, while he's learning to drive a car.

If he does good in the car, and on the bike as well, then a small HP streetbike.

Even big mistakes on a dirtbike are usually harmless.
Small mistakes on a streetbike can be lethal.

Kids in Europe generally start riding scooters at 15-16.  If you've ever driven in a European metropolis, you'll understand why they're some of the best riders/drivers in the world.  I say go for it, AFTER the MSF and reading David Hough's "Proficient Motorcycling".


I'd add the caveat that one moving violation and POOF, it all goes away.

I may be beating a dead horse here, and I'm not sure how much I can contribute but here goes.

I am 21 years old. My monster s2r is my first street bike. About a week after my dad saw I could ride without training wheels he brought me home a PW-50, I was 5 or 6 years old. Grew up on the dirt, went threw a few different bikes, had my share of get offs on the dirt.

Crashed once on my bigger KX wheeling in front of neighborhood friends. I learned that showing off always ends up bad, I have never done it since. I beat my body up pretty good on that crash too.

I also had various other crashes on the dirt caused from either making n00b mistakes or just having fun throwing the bike around.

Fast forward to now and I'm on the monster. Even though I consider myself a cautious person (and so do my parents) I have gotten the monster into warp drive a few times and had to hit the brembo's pretty hard. I've locked the rear up once bringing it to a stop on wet pavement. I know 100% that if I didn't have all that dirt experience that I would have crapped my pants and dumped the bike right then and there. Since I've slide on the dirt more times than I can count, I didn't freak out and loose my head when it while everything was happening all too fast. Motorcycling is all muscle memory, there is no time to think and react in my opinion. Dirtbiking has taught my muscles to take over and to be very relaxed. That is something that can't be taught in the two day course that is MSF or by the best instructor available.

I didn't wind up with the monster until I was 20, primarily because I couldn't afford it until then. Even though my parents are comfortable with me motorcycling, they certainly were not going to help me with one cent for the purchase of a street bike.

I think the coolest thing you can do is buy him a decent dirtbike (which is still awesome for any kid to have) and have him ride the absolute crap out it. Then let him save from that point on for a street bike. He will get to experience riding and can make all the mistakes hes capable of and walk away laughing most of the time. When he purchases the street bike I can almost guarantee you he will treat it with more respect especially when its not "daddy's money" and he will be a step ahead when the poo hits the fan.

How about you have him do some volunteer work with the local paramedics for a year while he gets a car license first.  A little bit of first hand experience   :-X   as to what can happen on highways will scare the $hit out of him, make him more cautious.

No.

There, question answered.  Thread over.  [coffee]

Having grown up in SOCAL, Anaheim Hills, I would say find a happy medium that allows him to grow and learn at a well restricted pace and learn about the road, rules and how idiotic drivers in Cali can be.


If you feel he is responsible enough he's ALMOST responsible enough....he won't be truly responsible until he's over 20.

Is there a budget in mind?  If there is then it's your negotiation tool.

One car at the budget price at 16 with the option of a bike at graduation or whatever milestone you feel is appropriate...or...

Or a scooter now with some serious boundaries and then a car at 16 or a real bike at 17 after a year and a half of accident and ticket free riding up to the budget amount.. 

The scooter would intro him to the difference between bikes and cars and the how vulnerable you can feel on the road.

The enduro thing is a bad idea,,,anything around 250cc on a dirtbike is a hooligan machine in the hands of a kid.

H'e gonna find out that dating with a bike is a pain anyways.  Mt dad wouldn't let me get a bike as a youth, I wound up buying 2 and keeping them at a buddies house bought and paid for on my own with me paying the insurance It was a bad idea I crashed both of those bikes my first year of college, luckily I was not hospitalized in the freeway wreck because my folks woulda killed me off.

My dad is now a rider and understands the drive that guys who ride have but he still doesn't know about those first 2 bikes, he'd probably still kill me!

almost everybody says NO ........ I have a 17 years old son & I say NO as well ....

he got his driving & motorcycle license now but I only allow him to drive the car & once in a while my small little 125cc moped ..... STRICT NO for my 2 SBK ;D

 ???  seeing a therapist?

I'm sure your dad is like any parent, including myself.  ;)
He'd rather have you hate him than have you dead.

 I couldn't afford a motorcycle until I was 27. And that was ok with me. I wasn't mature enough for a bike until then either! Some would say I'm still not...LOL!!

Celeste

I am in the same boat - with twin 16 year old boys.  They both can ride a dirt bike, and they want a motorcycle desperately.  The have their driver's ed done, and most of their on the road driving experience.  MD has a graduated licensing system, so they can't get their full license until they are 16.  If they want their MC license, the state requires them to take the MSF class.  Both their dad and I have our license and have multiple bikes.  I also teach the MSF class, So I do know how to mentor them after their license is obtained.

BUT, The $$ layout:  $300 for drivers ed, $2000 +/- for insurance, $3,000 +/- for two bikes (way old ones), $100 + for just the license in this state, plus fuel, gas, etc.  Total:$5,900.00

This is financially unobtainable for them.  That helps. It also helps that I took both of them out in my clutch car for a driving lesson.  They eventually got it, but were so distracted by the shifting, I can't imagine them riding on the road on a motorcycle.

That said, we/I might allow them to get the license, but ONLY ride with us parents, not alone.  We would keep the keys under lock and key and the forks locked - not allowing them to ride at all unless we knew of it, and only with us in tow.  This would be in force for 2,000 miles or 2 years when they turned 18.  Both my husband and I ride over 6k a year, so this is a reachable goal for them.

This maybe a way to satisfy the hunger of a 16 year old??

The answer is no.  Getting used to traffic is hard, and he'll make mistakes -- I was painfully, pathetically responsible as a teenage driver, but driving home from a breakup with my first girlfriend I made a left turn I shouldn't have. A life lesson in a car, a life-ender on a bike.

But...

We're debating the future for our 13 year old daughter (who says sport bikes scare her, but REALLY loves big cruisers  :-[); in the next couple of months her grandfather is going to pass along a 1961 Vespa that's been sitting probably since 1962. We're all looking forward to many fun hours ahead restoring the thing, and I know she'll want to ride it. We're going to need to lay down serious, explicit rules about it. Starting with a continuation of the conversation we're having about an incident last week when she went out on an ATV with her biological dad who just doesn't happen to own any helmets.  >:(

Maybe a restoration project like that of a vintage scooter would give him: a) pride enough in the final product so that he's not willing to trash it, b) parental ownership of the final product, so it can be taken away at a moment's notice, and c) not a crazy amount of power while he's learning to live in slow traffic?

Another option worth considering, while he's getting used to traffic in a cage -- do you have a track nearby? I know some awfully small folks are getting on motorcycles at local tracks, and it might be a decent way to introduce him to two wheels under highly controlled conditions, re-enforce lessons about good safety gear, and be a HUGE potential reward for good behavior/grades/shows of responsibility. I'm just throwing that option out there for discussion... Any response from the chorus?

I forgot one of the more important ones that thankfully several of you hit on, The safety course.  Here in MN it is required for under 21 to get the motorcycle endorsement, and I spaced it.

For the record I am way conservative in most things, but I still say yes with parental involvement, strict rules, guidelines and consequences.  Your dilemma is the freakishly heavy traffic in CA.

Move to MN, give up 4 or 5 months of riding for daily sanity?  OK, no more wise guy in a serious and great thread, thanks for starting it.

I am going through the same thing with my 18 year old nephew. he wants to buy a k1000 and i tried to talk him out of it but it was of no use. he however is a seasoned moto cross racer so he is familar with the controls of the machine, but more importantly, he has been driving on the street in his car for 3 years now. i would definatley put a halt to the bike buying issue. learning the ins and outs of traffic and navagating in a car should come first. he will undoubtley have some close calls in a car. those close calls in a car are alot more forgiving than on a bike. give him some time to learn the rules of the road. he will have plenty of time to ride after that. ;D

the ron [evil]

honestly i'm not a parent, you are.  and i am not wanting to rain on your parade at all.. but i will give you what may be viewed as a more cynical/negative view that doesn't blow sunshine up your behind "saying go for it".

basically you know as well as anyone else you hve already made up your mind, nothing we say here is going to change your mind.

the kids that got bikes young that were "responsible, good grades and wouldn't hurt a fly" and dead are not posting here saying "i wish i didn't get the bike" remember that.

also remember every parent THINKS their own kid is repsonsible, good and would never never never do anything remotely stupid as those stupid kids on tv that get into trouble, as you well know that is not true, most of the time most of us just got "lucky" and didn't kill ourselves and had fun in the process and hopefuly didn't get caught by the police.  just be realistic, nobody's child is as well behaved as what they see through their rose colored glasses and you know that.

that being said, if you want your kid to ride a bike, tel him to race a track bike or dirtbike.  keep him to a controlled environment and that is much safer and hey if he has talent to make it a livelihood great.  hey he can go faster on the track than he ever will on the streets.

topanga canyon north of LA is not "rural" as you say, its only a 15 minute ride/drive to the major parts of LA and such, if you think your kid is going to stick to only topanga canyon and not head down to pch or other areas you are dreaming, he is going to be 16, even if you say "don't go on this or that road" you know he will with his buddies/riding buddies eventually probably in the 3rd week he has the bike.

in the end you have to do what you think is right and what you can live with.

like you said he is still a 16 year old, and remember how much stupid stuff did you and your buddies did in high school and didn't  get caught and said "geez that was close"..

good luck and stay safe.

sorry to get off topic here, but, did they recently change the rules in MN? Just asking because I got my endorsement last year without taking the safety course and I was under 21.

I will have to dig in and re-check.  My kid was 16, so perhaps the age is 18 to get by.  Back on topic, the MSF course is mandatory in my book for any beginning rider.  And TOF (this old fart) is seriously considering the advanced course sometime this year.

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the well-considered feedback. It's interesting that such a consensus emerged from asking this question (I posted it on two other sites, too -- the Pashnit forum and Ducati.MS, both of which pretty much wound up with the same general opinion.)  A few people have said just let him ride, but BY FAR the most consistent advice has been to let him drive a cage for a year or two, while really learning how to ride in the dirt, and THEN see about letting him get a street bike (granted, he can do what he wants then but I would still have major input on the decision...)

This makes a lot of sense to me, and what the direction I was leaning in when I made the post. I do think he has the coordination and reflexes to become a very good rider, but learning how to control a motorcycle while at the same time learning how traffic really works is just too much input at once. He is bound to make some mistakes, and it's better to make those in a cage.

Someone pointed out that after driving a car for many years, you have certain instincts and perceptions about traffic that come with you when you start riding a bike. But you lack those instincts right out of the gate. I'd rather he developed them in a car.

A small dual-sport (maybe a 90) is a possibility for going to and from school (it's a mile away on a rural road) and to develop some dirt skills. He's ridden ATVs quite a lot, but they're a far cry from a bike. We have a couple of acres so he could ride at home pretty easily. I will probably pick one up myself so we can ride together. Then he can get a beater car when he's 16. Once I see that he really does understand the road, we can look at taking the next step.

So MANY THANKS for all the responses, it really helped.  Guess I'm in the market for a small dual sport now...or maybe two! [thumbsup]  Oh, and in answer to some of the questions posted, my wife is totally FOR getting him a bike now. But she's Danish and is probably the most risk-favoring woman I've ever met (perhaps that's why I married her). She's probably who I really need to worry about when she starts to ride!

Its a scientific fact..   The average teenage brain (<17) does not have the mental capacity to properly access risk.  ???  And riding a motorcycle all all about risk management.  If you're serious might want to consider professional assessment to help manage your risk.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2007-04-04-teen-brain_N.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070412115231.htm

Old Man's POV

Oh c'mon!

I'm sick and tired of people thinking that children and teenagers are borderline retarded and should be led by the hand until they're 40.

Ever wonder why in today's society everybody is so afraid to make decisions and take action?

The rampant overprotection present in America is damaging the future by creating "men" who are too afraid of doing anything for themselves and getting hurt. If you don't get hurt every once in a while, you will never learn!

from one the articles:

"The analysis, by Temple University psychologist Laurence Steinberg, says stricter laws and policies limiting their behaviors would be more effective than education programs"

How convenient, this travesty of science advocates that instead of taking the time to teach your children to think, you should just impose ever stricter rules upon them and forget about your responsibility.

This is a blatant effort to give some sort of legitimacy to overprotection so parents can sleep better at night when they're choking the life out of their children.

Anyone else feel like this is straight out of an Ayn Rand book?

This is about as pderbyerous as when "studies" determined that black people were unfit to fly airplanes in an attempt to shut down the Tuskegee program.

Truth is, the only way people really learn something is by doing it. Yes, your children will get hurt. I understand that you as a parent don't want this to happen, but sadly, this is the best way.

Kids learn real quick to not touch the frying pan once they get burnt. They learn that stupid action have consequences, and if you let them, they will learn to apply this knowledge to the rest of the aspects in their life.

I fully understand the desire to save your offspring from all the dangers of the world, but if you don't let them find out for themselves, you are hurting them more than any of those dangers ever could.

It looks like I'm coming to this party after it's over but I'll add my 2 cents anyways.

I've already gone through this with my son.  When he was about 12 I bought him an old XR100 and he learned to ride in dirt and on trails.  He was good.  Very much a natural.  I watched  him ride with a kid on a race prepped 80cc Kawi and he held his own while riding that tired old beater.

Three years later he was downhill mountain biking and became Provincial champion.  He definitely has a feel for two wheels.

But when it came to street riding on a motorcycle I said no.  I have 100% faith in his skills.  I doubt that he would do anything stupid but maybe I'm just an overly trusting parent.  My number one deciding factor was the other 50 million or so substandard drivers he would be exposed to.  I want him to develop "street-smarts" in something a bit more forgiving than a motorcycle.

We made a deal and so far it's held.  I told him that if he stayed away from bikes  "for a few years" my S-10 pickup was his.  At 16 I gave him the use of the truck (with limits on usage).  By 17 he had unrestricted use of it as he proved himself through no accidents or traffic tickets.  

He is now 19.  He's put a pile of miles on that truck.  He has driven almost every kind of vehicle under 3 tons and pulled trailers.  Never an accident or a ticket.  His one off-road excursion was while I was showing him how to drift during a snowfall   ;D and that was pretty much me conspiring to teach him some humility   [laugh]  .   Lately he's sat on my Monster many times.  I know he is ready but he hasn't pushed the issue.  (yet...)

If tomorrow he said he wanted a bike I think I'd be okay with it.  (Worried...but okay... 8)...)

I'm with you 1000000%   (with some restrictions of course   ;)..)......[thumbsup]

+11ty billion

I would say that they need to pay for everything and wait till their 18 or possibly 19. that's what my parents did with me and I'm glad.  I was a "responsible" kid but I still rallied the shit out of my truck.  My parent's viewed me as a responsible kid but I know that I would have done something stupid if I had gotten a bike.  Now, one year of college under my belt, they have finally agreed to let me get a bike as long as I pay for everything.  I whole heartedly agree with not sheltering your kid but at the same time I would give them time to mature before giving them the responsibility of a bike.  I'm no expert, this is just my opinion :)

Let me start by saying I am in no way a parent (that I know of) to any of my own children.

Looking back at myself when I was the brisk age of 16 I can recall dreaming of streetbikes and crotch-rockets. Actually looking at my whole life I can remember buying motorcycle mags just to drool of honda z50's and what not. Well... I am 23 now and still a young buck to many of you. Like some previous posts I can recall all the DumbAss stuff I did and the vehicles I wrote off and the drinking that I was doing at that age. I was by no means a retatrd or a drug user, just a kid, who like many, partied too much and buckled under peer pressure here and there.

If I can recall I got my learners at 17 or 18 (which my dad had to approve of at teh DMV because I was under 19) which was an OK time for myself. I was old enough and responsible enough to realize the power and respect that was needed to operate the machine. I did have about 6 years of intense dirtbike riding though, the latest of the bikes being CR 250s for the last few years. Anyways, my dad said ok, on one condition, he wasnt going to push me around in a f*cking wheelchair for the rest of my life. I will always remember that one  [laugh] .

YOu know your kid the best, make a judgement call. If you want to buy a little time tell him he has to pay for half the bike, or be able to afford all of his own gear. Make a few simple rules, like he has to get 50 hours on the bike under our supervision before he can ride alone. Make it work in our favor, you only have a few more years to dangle things over his head before he can just go do them.

You said he would love to ride with him right? Well if he truelly is interested in riding he will take what he can get. If he is just in it for the random pu$$y he thinks a bike will bring he will just say screw it when you push a few basic rules to ensure his safety and your conscience while he is out alone.

“I am not a parent”.

However, I have always wanted a motorcycles, but realized I was not mature enough to ride. As a teen, I felt the urge to speed up when others passed me, and I notice the tendency when I ride up along side others to pass to do so too. Being an athlete and having played competitive sports in both high school and college, I think all athletes have that competitive edge even when simply driving on a FWY. But hey, everyones different.

When I felt I was mature enough I took the MSF. Bought  proper gear and began hunting down a motorcycle. I completed the course in April of 2006 and didn't find a bike until March of 2007 (06’ Ducati Monster 620, her name is Delphina). 

I bought the Keith Code book and read some of it. But I also jumped on Youtube and typed in motorcycle accidents. I watched them religiously from April 06 to March 07 and still do occasionally.

My logic was this, If I still wanted bike after all I had seen then it was meant to be. I inundated myself with knowledge of the subject, I felt, before making the purchase. I did however notice that most accidents seem to occur while trying to impress people. i.e. wheelies and other reckless maneuvers. On youtube I separated the obvious squid incidents from the ones I felt were more practical everyday accidents. Those are the ones I concentrate on. I felt it helps to see what can go wrong in order to recognize it and hopefully avoid it in the future. I now have over 32k miles and have gone through my fair share of trials and tribulations.

I don't know what you should do and I am certainly the last to tell you, but I will say this, I wish I had learned to ride sooner and had a dad like yourself, to show me the right way how, and how to properly respect the situation. Only you know you, and you are a better judge of your kids mentality than any of us.

Be Just and Fear not... [thumbsup]

A cheap car and a dirt bike.  [thumbsup]

You know he's gonna wreck both pretty soon, so make it a car no one cares about and a dirt bike (good training and wrecking a motoX bike is different from getting hit by a car on the streets).

Some things are worth waiting for...

Having read the thread, I see that the majority seem to tend to the negative on this question.
I also see that many are not parents.
i am a parent, and my son is now 23. We live in a city, not huge, but big enough to kill a biker quick.
Here's my .02:
Have your son learn to drive a car first, and give him an old one, because he WILL bash it up some.
once he can drive that well, get him the bike he wants.
My son beat the crap out of his '87 T-bird for about 9 months, then got a Honda Shadow (and a full set of gear), and has been riding ever since. He's been hit once(totalled the bike, he walked away) and dropped it once in the last 6 years. For our area, that's not bad.
Look, you know your son. In the end, all you have to ask yourself is "do I trust him?" If the answer is yes, get him what he wants, if no, don't.


Either way, whatever you do, you're in for a lot of sleepless, worry filled nights.

Good luck.

It doesn't matter how smart, or mature, or responsible you think your teenager is.  They are still teenagers.  Brain research shows that they think differently (as if the research was necessary), which includes poor assessment of risk and limited understanding and response to the long-term consequences of their decisions and actions.  Lots of really good kids do really stupid things, not because they are bad or stupid or sub-standard, but because they're kids.  Lots of great, smart, well-adjusted and responsible kids get in car accidents, even those who were allowed to drive in parking lots and dirt roads since childhood, and thankfully we have seat belts and air bags to keep them safe.  Even the best parents can't be there when they're riding.  Most accidents happen close to home, so creating limitations may not really change things.

Someone mentioned that your kid could be the next Casey Stoner, implying that this is justification for getting them the bike.  I would point to the movie "Faster" where Rossi, Biaggi, and other top pro racers were asked about riding on the street--they all said it was way too dangerous, saying that they only ride in a controlled environment of the track. 

Support your kids by setting some limits--that's our job as parents.  Start them in a car.  Let them appreciate the rules of the road, develop basic traffic skills, then assess their actual driving responsibility--a much better indicator than their GPA and clean lifestyle.  Then decide if you want them to get a bike or not.  If you think you're kid is MotoGP bound, train them to ride in a controlled environment, like the dirt or a track, not the city streets.

Just my 2 cents as a parent and an educator.  :)

If you want to help him fulfill his riding dream you need to go all the way. Buy him all protective gear, ride with him and teach him how to survive the street and send him to school to learn proper way to corner.
Otherwise you don’t need to buy him a bike as a transportation and don’t feel bad about it, riding is a hobby and he can always buy himself one when he gets older with his own money.

i still say get a track bike and let him flog it aroudn a track and race other people.  right now he is fearless so he will probalby be fast, also since he will probalby want to go fast on a motocycle you give him an environmnet where going fast is ENCOURAGED.

so if he wrecks there he won't be as hurt with any luck and with luck if he wrecks there he will realize that when he starts riding on the street that racing on the streets isn't the smartest thing to do.

track bike all the way, get him racing so that he can go 150-170mph legally on a track.  what 16 year old wouldnt want to go that fast.

The 2 best responses, IMHO.  [thumbsup]

I saw that movie recently and I think you have taken that comment out of context. That was said for two reason. One: those guys make  livelihood riding bikes and are less likely to take risks off the track. Hundreds of thousands and in some cases millions are at stake. Heck, even Snoop Dogg doesn't gang-bang, but he will rap about it. Professional athletes won't play miscellaneous sports for fear of  random injury. Two: the movie is meant to promote a race culture. Its obviously attempting to get more people out on the track.

Lets take a poll, how many of you on this forum ride on the street ?

When i was 16 i wanted a bike. Told my parents who were fine with it . who told my grandparents who freaked.
My grandmother then bought me a car on condition that i didnt get a bike.  Unfortunately it was a grandmother style car  mayflower yellow with chocolate brown interior.
I eventually got a bike when i was 19.

Bribery worked on me

When I was a kid I worked and saved.  I got enough money to buy a bike.  I had my eye on a Suzy 250.  I asked my dad.  It must have been real hard for him, but he said, no.  Funny, when I turned 21 and wanted a bike, he loaned me the money to buy one.   

I say you let him get a 250 to ride with you, and he must take a riding class, and wear the gear.  No riding with friends or solo.  I thought of a few other things to demand in exchange for getting a bike: like must keep up his GPA, bat at least 300 on his baseball team, get a full scholarship to Stanford when he graduates, no sex until he graduates from college, no drinking until he is 21, and get accepted into a good medical school.  OK, a few of these might be too much, but I am serious about the riding with you only.   [moto]

I am a parent.  In my case, I would not allow my son to have a street bike.  I bought him something to ride off road instead.  Now that he is an adult, he can make a decision on whether to ride a bike on the street.    In my mind, the combination of uncontrolled variables in the environment (every cage is out to get you), learning curve for driving on streets, learning curve for a bike, and teenage judgment, all made me decide to say "no." 

 I will admit that this is how I was parented as well (dirt bike with a car as a teenager).  I will also admit there were some crazy things I did in a car and that if I did some of those things on a bike, would have resulted in possible injury to myself or others.  And that was just with the ladies javascript:void(0);