Ducati Monster Forum

Autohag posted this in CAM, but I thought it could use a little more attention

A petition to restrict US Highway 129 to non-commercial vehicles.
Via: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=715101 (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=715101)

- Personally I think it needs to be a length limit as some private vehicles are too big for the The Dragon, but the sentiment is the same.

If you've been on that road, you know that it cannot be safely navigated by vehicles over a certain size.

For those who have not - Beyond a certain length even if the driver keeps the front wheels on the right side it's impossible to the rear or mid sections to cross the double yellow. For Semi sized vehicles, they cannot make it without purposefully crossing the double yellow. And even with them using both lanes it's common for trailers to damage the road, barriers, trees and get hung up and high centered.
Visit http://tailofthedragon.com/dragon_trucks.html (http://tailofthedragon.com/dragon_trucks.html) or killboy.com to see photos of the issues with big vehicles on that road.

Due to the very limited sight lines on the road even folks not speeding at all have had run ins. Come around a blind turn and 15 feet from you is a semi in your lane...

As you might expect this causes a lot of accidents. Most recently a man (Ike) died as the result of a accident with a semi that was spanning the while road. So that's where this petition got started. It's just a petition, but it's a start.

Doneded!

Signed!

Good idea.  If you'd ever been to the Crossroads of Time, you'd see a number of pics showing semis, RVs, logging trucks etc stuck at the hairpins.  I don't know how these guys think it's a good idea to navigate, especially after reading a map (now GPS).

I read an article written by a fellow who, early in his trucking career, made the mistake of taking the Dragon. Granted this was years ago, well before GPS and such. He looked over a map and the one he had was of a scale that it didn't show the real flavor of 129. He thought it was a great cut from NC to TN- and at a large enough map scale it does look like it.

His narrative was amusing. As he was a bit out from 129 on an approach he started to get waves from vehicles going the other way. As he got closer the waves got more frantic and transitioned to rude gestures and a couple tossed soda cups as he got really close. Not knowing about 129 he was confused by all the hostility... then he figured it out after it was too late.

His piece was there to illustrate the folly of trucks using that section of road - but it did explain why trucks would find themselves on the road. At least before GPS

Thanks.  Done.

Done
I brought my wife down there just 2 weeks ago in my car and we got pushed off the road a few feet by a truck who didn't even slow down the slightest, thankfully there was a shoulder there so we didn't have any problems.

sigh...
not going to turn this into a political thread, sign all the petitions you want... but i don't want to see anyone getting ticked off if they start petitioning for certain roads to be off limits to MOTORCYCLE traffic. regulation and restriction is a two-way street.

But this is a very legitimate safety concern. That road is quite literally impossible for a big truck to navigate safely and they put all other traffic at a serious risk.

just a personal point of view. i understand the safety concerns...
but it's also a public road. couldn't they solve the safety risks for non-truck drivers by making a truck ONLY road?
i know that's absurd, but that's the two-way point of view. don't push to limit their freedoms, and they won't push to limit ours is how i see it.
too much regulating. just do some public education on the road, maybe build in a by-pass at each end of the dragon to make a safe exit to other roads, and just be mad at the large vehicles that don't  heed the warning. no need to tell folks what they can and can't do.

There's photos of a few cars that didn't have any place to go and got mashed in similar situations.


Well folks have sorta done this with speed bumps and such to deal with speeding traffic. But as noted by lethe it is impossible for big trucks to safely navigate that section of road. Over a certain size they cannot make it without violating the laws - it's just physics and geometry... just science.

Speeding, hooning and such is a human factor the same logic can't be applied... though that might not stop folks from trying. Either way to me it about the fact that big vehicles cannot navigate that road without breaking laws and endangering other folks.

plenty of sense there, but if there already laws in place, then they just need to start enforcing them. if they start slapping tickets on every truck (and RIDER) that barrels over the double yellow, then 1) trucks will avoid it more, and 2) maybe riders will get better too ;)

We can hope...

The local LEOs can be pretty active and there's big warning signs for trucks... but still truckers still try to run it. You'd think folks would know better... but apparently this road and texting while driving are just irresistible!

being both a truck driver and have ridden the dragon I have the real credentials to comment on this topic and not just people who are inconvenienced by commercial traffic.

First off, yes 53ft trailers and sleeper cabs do not fit on the dragon. It can be done but you better have a spotter in front of you to stop traffic. Now for my side of it being a truck driver, NO you cannot prohibit all commercial vehicles from the dragon period. dump trucks and delivery trucks need to have access to the dams and power companies and anything else in that area. Heck even the gap needs to get daily/weekly deliveries from a "commercial truck"

I feel there could be a length restriction with exceptions (required pilot car) but it is a US highway and not a small local road so you run into federal issues with funding and such if you put certain restrictions on certain routes.

(http://www.tailofthedragon.com/photos/trucks/Oct1.jpg)

(http://www.tailofthedragon.com/photos/trucks/TruckStuck2.jpg)

(http://www.tailofthedragon.com/photos/trucks/6-24-09_videopic.jpg)

(http://www.tailofthedragon.com/photos/trucks/080107.jpg)

if ever there was a stretch of road that ought to be closed to large vehicles -- it's this one

(http://www.tailofthedragon.com/photos/trucks/41505.jpg)

We have highways that don't allow commercial traffic of any kind.. don't see why they can't do the same here.. its obviously a problem and a danger..  need supplies, have a box truck bring it..

As noted there are smaller commercial vehicles, like box trucks, that are able to navigate that road without issue. I agree that 'commercial' does not equal bad. As I said before, it would be more sensible to me to look at vehicle length for any sort of restriction

with all of those pics you posted, with the exception of the ofs truck none of those guys took the corners the way they needed to.

Point #2 in response to a smaller truck can bring it, yes thats true but its not just deliveries that big trucks need access to. Its more of the lack of roads i can take to get from place to place. Us441 i think is restricted, so if i have a load that picks up in franklin nc and delivers to maryville tn (94 miles). 129 is my only option unless i go north to I 40 (140mi) or west to us 74 and us411 (170mi). Now remember trucks are only paid by the mile of the shortest distance possible, which would be us129 at 94 miles. everything over 94 miles im working for free and burning more fuel that im not getting paid to burn. so thats a minimum of $50 extra out of my pocket. so thats where the issue comes in. 

Ah I see.. that sucks..

Side note; I just drove from ny to az and back, do truckers normaly have rad detectors?  And why do they tailgate so much (some)

remember, i'm not advocating this petition personally, but my question to this response is.. is $50 out of your pocket cheaper than totaling a cab and possibly ruining/destroying your entire load?

(http://www.tailofthedragon.com/photos/trucks/080107.jpg)

(http://www.tailofthedragon.com/photos/trucks/092105.jpg)

(http://www.tailofthedragon.com/photos/trucks/0916_rear_sm.jpg)

look at it this way. Would you want to spend $50 every other day out of your pocket that your not getting paid for but your "job" requires you spend it without getting reimbursed for it? not to mention having to "work" an extra hour for free. So not only did you lose 2.5 hours pay you have to work at least an extra hour without getting paid. See how this all adds up very quickly, and this happens multiple times a week.

everyone of those pictures you can clearly see the driver didnt take the corner properly. Almost all of those trailers in the ditch are from driver impatience and improper lane positioning to make the turn. For most of them turns you must be completely on the opposite side of the road before you start the turn. The way it looks is they either had a car coming that they pinched the turn off or werent paying attention and didnt swing it completely.

Again, im not saying that i would ever take it in a sleeper semi and 53 ft trailer, but to flat out BAN everything i will not agree with. There are circumstances for everything. And its bad enough Virgina restricts just about every road around Roanoke area making it at least a 100 mile detour to get from big island VA to ohio. And those roads are nothing compared to the dragon, or even the skyway.

my point is that it seems a LOT of those truckers have "driver impatience and improper lane positioning to make the turn. "

and of the ones that don't run off the road, they have to cross the double yellow so much that it impedes traffic.

plenty of roads have passage to large trucks banned.  it's not a major highway, it's a small, two lane highway that was put down when trucks were nowhere near as big.

There's no reason passage for semis couldn't be banned unless it is schedule and accompanied.  There are simply too many stories and photos of trucks falling off or blocking traffic for it to be "occasional driver error."

Don't need new laws they just need to enforce the one's already on the books.  "Long" vehicles can't maintain their lane on roads like that, which is a moving violation.  Also start billing them for the rescue services required to unstick their vehicles.  Do those two and that type of traffic will reduce significantly.

Wouldn't 140 miles on a better road(s) take less time and use less fuel than 94 miles of a super tight twisty road? I mean, I can drive to the airport through the city in an hour and getting 13 mpg...or I can take I-5 and be there in 20 minutes and get 18 mpg.  ???

I spent the week before last at the Gap with a buddy that happens to be a Class A trucker. This was a common topic on the trip, especially since Ike was killed the first day we got there.

What Elven has posted is true, and I won't hold his perspective against him. A cab with a 53' trailer CAN get through the Gap when properly piloted. However it CANNOT be done with the truck in its travel lane, crossing is required to make the trek. On a mountain road with literally hundreds of blind corners, that isn't acceptable.

The amount of mileage saved is quickly absorbed by the extra time, fuel, headache, and risk spent taking 129. 411 is glass smooth asphalt with no sharp turns, 40 is an interstate, and I have never been on 74. I watched a trailer take an hour and a half to get through the Gap, plenty of extra time to make the trip on 411.

Taking that out of the debate, what is the price of the lives that are at risk every time a truck rolls through 129? The trucker, cars, motorcyclists, everyone involved is at an exponentially higher risk just being on the road with trucks present.

I am not a ban-o-phile. I hate when things are just written off as 'inconvenient to some' and people immediately start whining that there should be a law to make things convenient for them again. Something has to be done about this though. The long and short of our conversation ended with the idea of a permit system to go through the area. Truckers would purchase a permit to use the road, of which the revenue generated would pay the operating costs for a dedicated escort. The escort would lead the truck through the area, instruct the drivers for proper lane placement, and warn oncoming traffic of the presence of the semi. The operating costs of such a service would be nominal, especially considering the short mileage would allow the use of an electric vehicle. The low speeds involved would allow for the use of one of the golf cart style runabouts you see employed at amusement parks and stadiums.

That is of course far too logical of a solution, so I'm sure it will never happen, but a boy can dream.

Seems to me that if a ban on vehicles over such and such length was put in place, then the shortest distance a truck driver could legally take could not be over deals gap.  Thus, trucker would get the miles for going around the road that is obviously unsuitable for such a vehicle.

I figure a good way to go about it would be for the two states to agree to restrict traffic with trailers over a certain length and traffic without trailers over a certain length from using the road.

One of the factors to keep in consideration is that the reason that road exists in the first place in the condition that it is in is the dam system. The TVA three dam system in the area needs the ability to bring large trucks through when needed. Another reason why an outright ban isn't necessarily the best choice.

great point. if there is a law in place, you're employer would be forced to pay you for the NEXT shortest distance.

Maybe we just make it Motorcycles and miatas only.

Y'all are making it too difficult.  "Long" vehicles simply can not maintain their lane on that type of road ergo they're violating the traffic laws already on the books.  They can implement a new law to "ban" long vehicles on that road, but if no one enforces it either then what's the point of writing up the new law?

Enforcing a law like that is much easier than catching people crossing a double yellow. To enforce a ban like that you just need a cruiser parked at and end point. Pretty easy to spot things that are too big going by. To catch a moving violation you have to cover more area.

It's way more profitable to write speeding tickets than it is to enforce lane placement.

Even simplerer; throw down some k-rails at the starts of the road section that make it impossible for "long" vehicles to enter the area (i.e. get hung up there instead of down the road).  It'd be a one time dirt cheap solution and keep thier leo's free to go generate revenue er keep the public safe.

hey now thats not a bad idea! Kinda like a qualifier obstacle course!