Hurt my foot and my ankle a little bit, but other than that I am fine. The bike has the Ducati dent, bent handle bar, and broken shifter and peg.
I was making a left turn and I accidentally throttled while I was turning the bars, panicked, jumped on the front brake and fell. This isn't the first time I was throttling on when I was making a left turn either. What did I do wrong?
You are probably gripping the throttle entirely too hard. When you turn left if your right hand isn't loose or if your elbow is locked you're going to twist the throttle.
Have you taken any Training Courses? If not I would recommend an MSF course they are great :)
Quote from: zeoniks on August 17, 2011, 03:02:42 PM
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What did I do wrong?
You throttled while turning and then panicked [cheeky]
Sorry, had to, but since you already know about the braking - this is about the throttle mistake.
Sloppy throttle wire?
Stuck throttle wire?
Slippery grips and/or gloves?
Doing something sudden with your body? (it affects your hands)
Not paying attention?
I hope your injuries will be fine [thumbsup]
I have taken a MSF, but it was ages ago that I did. The switch from a Nighthawk to an S4R is .... daunting .... The riding position is incredibly different. I have this sport bike body position, but my arm position is that of a standard motorcycle's riding position.
Quote from: stopintime on August 17, 2011, 03:16:15 PM
You throttled while turning and then panicked [cheeky]
Sorry, had to, but since you already know about the braking - this is about the throttle mistake.
Sloppy throttle wire?
Stuck throttle wire?
Slippery grips and/or gloves?
Doing something sudden with your body? (it affects your hands)
Not paying attention?
I hope your injuries will be fine [thumbsup]
I guess I knew what I did wrong. My gloves were fine, nothing wrong with the grips, throttle wire is fine. I'm pretty sure it had something to do with my body position. I feel like my arms are barely reaching the grips, but if I move up I feel like I'm sitting on the tank.
Quote from: zeoniks on August 17, 2011, 03:17:08 PM
I have taken a MSF, but it was ages ago that I did. The switch from a Nighthawk to an S4R is .... daunting .... The riding position is incredibly different. I have this sport bike body position, but my arm position is that of a standard motorcycle's riding position.
There are advanced MSF courses that teach you on your own motorcycle.
Quote from: zeoniks on August 17, 2011, 03:18:49 PM
I guess I knew what I did wrong. My gloves were fine, nothing wrong with the grips, throttle wire is fine. I'm pretty sure it had something to do with my body position. I feel like my arms are barely reaching the grips, but if I move up I feel like I'm sitting on the tank.
So, your right arm was stretched maybe....
Rizoma bars will be closer to you - that might help (also higher - don't know if that suits you) http://www.monsterparts.com/pc/MA005/Bars-Mirrors/MA005.html (http://www.monsterparts.com/pc/MA005/Bars-Mirrors/MA005.html)
Nothing wrong with sitting "on the tank" if your private parts can take it. In fact, Monsters tend to be happy with a little more weight up front.
Is there something inherently wrong with my riding position? I don't want to change anything with the bike to 'mask' my problems. What exactly should it feel like?
Yep, could be your riding position. Sounds like your elbows are up and out too far. This forces your wrists to be up too high at no throttle. Then when you extend your arms out straight, it pulls your wrists down, thus rolling the throttle. Something to remember is that the Monster has a slightly aggressive riding position, your are supposed to be leaned forward a little, and your elbows are supposed to be bent... not quite like a tuck position, but somewhere between a tuck and upright.
see the guy in the first picture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ducati_Monster_S4R_Testastretta.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ducati_Monster_S4R_Testastretta.jpg)
You will also need to get used to hugging the gas tank with your knees a little in order to loosen your arms up.
Do you "cheat" the throttle with your right hand? By that I mean rotating forward before opening the throttle, so that when you have your wrist level (normal starting position), you're twisting the throttle open a little bit.
It makes it so you're not uncomfortable while on throttle and bending your wrist. A lot of people do this without even thinking about it and it's a HORRIBLE habit. It shouldn't be "comfortable" to be on the gas, that way you a. always know you're cracking the throttle open, and b. if you relax, it should ALWAYS be throttle-off.
Anyways, just a thought other than the normal "you weren't paying attention and gave it some gas" (which is what happened, obviously).
I don't think the Monster ergos will have much to do with it. More likely it's you not being used to them. I also find stock ergos uncomfortable, but I'm 6'2" and put clip-ons on to match the sportiness of everything else and stretch my reach out forward. Everyone is different though.
Quote from: $Lindz$ on August 18, 2011, 04:59:41 AM
Do you "cheat" the throttle with your right hand? By that I mean rotating forward before opening the throttle, so that when you have your wrist level (normal starting position), you're twisting the throttle open a little bit.
It makes it so you're not uncomfortable while on throttle and bending your wrist. A lot of people do this without even thinking about it and it's a HORRIBLE habit. It shouldn't be "comfortable" to be on the gas, that way you a. always know you're cracking the throttle open, and b. if you relax, it should ALWAYS be throttle-off.
Anyways, just a thought other than the normal "you weren't paying attention and gave it some gas" (which is what happened, obviously).
I don't think the Monster ergos will have much to do with it. More likely it's you not being used to them. I also find stock ergos uncomfortable, but I'm 6'2" and put clip-ons on to match the sportiness of everything else and stretch my reach out forward. Everyone is different though.
I think I might have been doing that as well, I'm not sure. My problem with the ergonomics is that you have a sport bike riding position but the bars are almost essentially flat going outwards.
I'm all for rotating forward to be comfortable on the gas when the conditions warrant. The main thing is to develop careful throttle control and good reactions when things get out of sorts, panicking and grabbing too much brake is bad and could hurt a lot worse if something startles you at speed. Get some training, do some track days, build those skills [Dolph]
Bottom line is you're OK. Could it have been worse? Sure, but it wasn't. By now I bet you have somewhat of a handle on the cause and solution [thumbsup]
Get it fixed, focus more, and keep putting in the miles. The rest will come.
I do. I'm still healing up. I'm still trying to figure out where I went wrong right now.
If I understand what you described.......you panicked and jumped on the brake......which guarantees the bike is going down if in the configuration you described.
Grabbing a handful of uber-powerful brakes at slow speed will immediately stop the wheels from turning - but the rest of the bike (with the crossed-up bars) wants to keep going...
If anything, practice two of the basic MSF drills: controlled, straight line stops from speed; and especially, controlled stops in a turn (hint: the bike needs to be straightened up first...).
Becoming comfortable with these drills will reduce the likelihood that you'll panic when something like this happens again, and will help you develop a feel for the power of the brakes and how to used them at low/slow speeds.
I've been in several situations where MSF training has kept the rubber side down; situations that I know would have caused me to crash if I had followed instincts instead of trusting learned techniques.
Thank you. I will be be doing some drills, but I'm worried that I might repeat that situation where I accidentally throttle on while making turn. This isn't the first time I have done it on the bike (throttle on while turning, that is).
There's always a chance you'll repeat, but drilling is also your best chance to avoid it.
You'll be fine [thumbsup] Good luck!
Just a thought and something i have learned from riding courses, when performing a slow turn you want to limit the movement in your wrist as you found out, i set my speed and drop my wrist down, like in a push up position keeping the throttle in my fingers, this limits the amount of range you can twist the throttle, when the bars are turned or when moving slowly on a slippery or lose surface i drag the rear brake to control the speed and counter balance with my body position, i also make sure i dont cover the front brake, because you natural reaction will be to grab a hand full of brake if things start to go wrong and you get a jack knife type effect with the bars and frame.
so remember - uncover the front brake, set the throttle and drop the wrist, counter balance and drag the rear brake if need be
seems to work for me
all the best and keep practicing
JB
If you don't mind: exactly how tall are you?
I know I've always felt like the riding position on a (stock handle bar) monster is more of a standard motorcycle with a slight forward lean, then a full on sport bike. I'll occasionally slide my butt back and tuck down if I'm running at high speeds, but I'm usually upright.
You may try sliding your butt forward as far as is comfortable (knees right up on the sides of the tank). As someone else said, monsters like being ridden like this; puts good weight forward. Also, if you do that and you are still reaching (feel like you're too far from the bars), you can loosen them up and rotate the bars back towards you a little. Just make sure you tighten them back down [laugh]
If you can't find a comfortable position yourself, you may want to take it into a good dealer, and have them adjust the bike to you. Whatever the case, if you don't feel comfortable riding it, don't head out on the road. Get it all sorted before you go out. Don't want to be worried about reaching the clutch or something while watching for soccer moms, talking on their phones, to pull out infront of you at the local starbucks* [bang]
*this is the cause of the current dent in my tank. Grabbed the brakes too hard on a damp road when a mini van pulled out into the lane that I was currently occupying.
Stay safe! And remember, tank dents add character!
I second the tank pads suggestion, if you don't already have them by now. They've always made a big difference for me in getting my lower body position good and allow for more focus with what's going on up at the bars. Get the balls of your feet on the pegs in conjunction with your knees locked onto tank pads and have your body slightly forward. I have a bad habit of keeping the front brake covered too but I also use the rear brake, the front brake habit was something I could never shake from back when I took the MSF course. You should try to have your speed set for the most part though entering the turn and then roll on slightly or to what's comfortable as you exit.
I thought you were SUPPOSED to increase throttle as you go through a turn... what am I missing?
I set my speed going into the turn with a slight throttle increase through it for stability and then increase speed on exiting, that's what I do.
I always cover my rear brake when making slow turns that require turning the bars. I am less likely to grab a fist full of front then.
not sure how to critique your riding style, but I will offer this: If you haven't done so already, INVEST IN FRAME SLIDERS!!! They are absolutely worth their weight in gold. I low-sided a bike at Chuckwalla and my left slider took the brunt of the damage. That $50 slider EASILY saved me a couple thousand dollars in damages.
Check this out. I'm not bagging on you or anything else. It isn't the bike. It's you. Practice more. I've got an S4, down a bit on power to your R, but I ride it like a dirt bike. Elbows up. Not way up in the air, but not down against your side. Lots of clutch slippage. If I'm creeping around a parking lot, making u-turns, any slow manuevers, I slip the clutch a lot. They can take it. Then the bike doesn't lurch forward, it's smoother and more predictable, easier to turn.
Do you know any racer guys? If you do, go riding with them. Watch how they ride. Most of the racer guys I know don't haul banana's on the street, but they ride very well, very controlled, but course, some of them haul the mail too. And I've generally found them to be an open, helpful bunch with newer riders.
PS, don't try to keep up with them, they'll lead you into some serious poop if you are trying to freight train with them.
'
Again, practice, practice, practice.