Hello all,
The motorcycle was parked on the street today uncovered when a huge rainstorm came and passed. I went outside and turned on the motorcycle while I put on my gear and it fired right up. 6 seconds or so in, it died. So I tried to fire it up again with no success. And again. I tried with the engine choked and without. All the lights and the horn work and the starter motor sounds just as strong as ever.
I can hear the engine cranking when the starter motor is trying to start it but no firing. The bike did respond a little sluggish at times earlier in the day so I'm thinking maybe it's the spark plugs? Additionally, when I opened the fuel filler cap to check how much gas I had in the tank, I noticed a good amount of water around the "hole" for the gas tank. Maybe the seal has gone bad and leaked water in the gas?
Because of the neighborhood the bike is in, and also because I don't have the facilities to tow it anywhere, I'm going to try to change the spark plugs tomorrow and see if that fixes the issue. If not, then maybe drain the tank of fuel and add a new gallon of gas and then give it shot before giving up and taking it to a nearby mechanic. Changing the spark plugs is a simple job but I would appreciate advice on how to drain the gas tank and if there's any other culprits I should be looking for that might prevent the bike from starting up.
Thank you,
Ankur
Apparently the thing to do in this case is leave the bike to dry overnight and then come back to it in the morning, when it'll start up right away without a problem. Then you get to ride it home and pay the ticket NYC traffic cops left you as a little present.
Chances are you have secondary leakage from the ignition coils or spark plug wires. An easy shade tree check is start the bike up at night or in the dark and spray water on the coils and wires with a spray bottle and look for sparks.
Thanks Howie, I'll give that a shot.
Happened again. Starts up, then cuts out and refuses to start. Today, I did notice that I do not hear the fuel pump cycle on-off upon powering on the ignition.
sounds like you may have water/heavy moisture in the gauge housing. big design flaw for monsters. They don't like water. Would make more sense if they were french bikes...
Sorry I don't fully understand. What is the "gauge housing"?
Quote from: avishw01 on August 23, 2011, 09:30:13 AM
Sorry I don't fully understand. What is the "gauge housing"?
Moisture in the instrument cluster can cause starting problems and long term damage to the cluster requiring replacement. Since your bike cranks it is unlikely the cause of your problem.
Maybe some water in the gas ,from past rainy days .... change the gas out i bet its it .
It is a fresh tank of gas too. I'm thinking it could be the electrical components leading up to the pump. I'll report back when I get a chance to diagnose the issue.
I finally got a chance to diagnose the issue. The battery voltage is fine, and so are all the fuses and both the relays. The connector for the fuel pump under the tank is reading proper voltage so the pump is getting power too. I figure I'm gonna order this pump from California Cycleworks and put it in one when it gets here. And while I'm at it, I think I should replace the fuel filter too.
http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/ca-cycleworks-efi-fuel-pump-fuel-pumps (http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/ca-cycleworks-efi-fuel-pump-fuel-pumps)
What do you guys think?
I successfully cleaned my fuel pump with an ultra sonic cleaner. If I am to believe the shop guys that I talked to there is not much that can go wrong with a fuel pump. Saved me quite a bit of cash.
Just a thought.
Don't go replacing the fuel pump yet. Is the pump priming when you turn the key on? In it isn't you have no electricity to the pump. Electricity goes through the fuel sending unit to the pump and sometimes the failure is in the sending unit. If the pump primes have you checked fuel pressure? The fuel pump is also not affected by rain.
Thanks for the replies guys. This is where I am as of now with this issue. The pump does not prime (assuming that by prime, you mean the 3 seconds where it makes the humming noise then shuts off) when I turn the key on. Also worth mentioning is that the fuel pump was replaced on the motorcycle by the previous owner (although a dealer did the replacement) with that exact California Cycleworks model about a year ago. Since then there were a few months when the motorcycle was just sitting in the garage until I bought it.
Anyways, I checked the voltage at the connector that hooks up to the fuel tank (number 13 in the attached image). I disconnected it from the fuel tank and hooked up a multimeter to the powered side. There are two powered leads and two grounds in the connector so I assume one is for the fuel pump and the other is for the fuel sensor. One set gives me ~12 Volts and the other does not give me any voltage. Should I be getting ~12V for both the pump and the fuel level sensor? If so, how should I go about tracing this electrical problem?
I was thinking of hooking up the leads where I am getting 12V to the leads on the tank-side connector that go to the fuel pump to see if it would turn on. Is that an advisable thing to do?
Attached Image
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TBoEutU6WZM/Tl-QIseUr3I/AAAAAAAABF8/7u_XnwmqUOo/s800/Connector.JPG)
So there is a new development in this case. After I couldn't figure it out, I took it to the dealer and they told me the fuel pump was busted but everything else seems fine. So in went a new 150 dollar fuel pump for California Cycleworks and at the same time, I got the bike fully serviced from the dealership which involved putting new belts, spark plugs, etc. and the motorcycle has been running fine since then... until tonight!
Around 200-300 miles later, the motorcycle cut out while I was riding it. I pulled over to the side of the road and turned the bike on and off and noticed that I do not hear the fuel pump again. I'm thinking the problem is electrical, but if so, what would cause the fuel pump that was in the bike before to fail? Surely, I couldn't have two fuel pump failures within a month! Could I?
Left it overnight, went to pick it up and it wouldn't start. After towing it back, it now starts just fine. I'll probably take it back to the dealer since I just got it from them last week but any ideas on what could be happening?
Anything? The fact that the issue is intermittent is what's annoying! I changed the title of the thread to better reflect the problemooo.
I had the same issue on my 620. I checked everything you did and found nothing. The next day I went to take out the low fuel sensor and found out when I pulled it out the wires the sensor was cracked at the base and the metal "tubes" inside had broken in two. It took almost no force to break it in half. I looked around and found that piece is very expensive and since my Vapor dash cant read the sensor anyway I went to work.
The little "tubes" are the electrical conductors that read the sensor and run the pump. 2 sets. I just tested with my meter which 2 I needed. I then cut the wires going to the pump, that exit the sensor and cut a little bit of the sheathing off. I then got my soldering iron ready and slip the wires into the holes and soldered them in. Tested the pump and PRESTO it primed. Haven't had a problem since.
BTW My bike sat in my garage for 2 yrs with gas in the tank. (Long story) I think that was the culprit.
What year was your 620, addiction? Here's my gameplan for this issue. I'm gonna first go talk to the dealer since I did pay that place just last week to "fix" this issue. And depending on the cost, I might diagnose it myself, in which case, I'll probably check the relays and the fuses first then work through the wires since at this point I'm pretty convinced the fuel pump itself is not the issue.
04. I thought it was the pump too but the likelihood of the pump going out is pretty slim. Also run direct power too the pump to see if it works. Thats if its not running.
The fuel sensor is a good possibility, power to the pump goes through the sensor to get to the pump. A little difficult to nail down in your case though since your problem is intermittent. Remove it and subject it to vibration with an ohmmeter connected and you might nail the problem. Or you might get lucky like addiction and see something.
Just to throw it out there, we had a similar issue on a buddys 620. The bike would run sometimes and wouldn't other times. When it ran, everything checked out fine but when it wouldn't run we found we were getting voltage to the pump so we assumed it was bad. We replaced it with the ca pump and it still didn't work. The problem ended up being a loose connection in the wire cluster that passes through the bottom of the module assy. Even though it is all sealed somehow a loose connection happened. We scraped away all the sealant, found the bad connector, re-soldered, and re sealed. Since then no issues.
That's a very good possibility. I just used a multimeter at the connector under the tank and I'm getting slightly more than 11 volts on both sets of wires. Is that good enough? The lights all work properly and the starter cranks as well. I just don't want to dig up the wire cluster if the final issue is my battery being bad.
Right now, the bike is dead in the streets so I'll take a look at the sensor as well and report back when I'm able to get it home!
Updates!
Unfortunately, I can't report that the issue has been fixed. When the bike died on me again this past weekend, I decided to diagnose it myself.
Problem - Fuel pump not priming when key in ignition turned to "On"
Step 1 - Check for proper voltage at the connecter under the tank. Both the fuel pump and the low fuel sensor receiving around 12V. Thus, the problem must lie after the connector.
Step 2 - Use SpankyDuc's thread (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=17213.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=17213.0)) to take out the fuel pump/filter assembly.
Step 3 - Check for voltage at the black plug with the red/black wire connected to the fuel pump in the following picture (also from SpankyDuc's thread since I didn't take any of my own photos)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg286/SpankyMK/Fuel%20Filter%20S2R%20800/DSC01333.jpg?t=1230982233)
Now here, I expected to not have proper voltage, requiring me to locate a loose connection or something but the pump was getting 12V. I attempted to run it outside the tank for a second (I know I shouldn't run them dry but I figured a second wouldn't hurt) and all I heard was a click, as if it's stuck but wanting to spin.
So my electrics check out, leading me to conclude that it's my fuel pump that has gone bad. But this fuel pump was just put in the bike (with a new filter at the same time) just 3 weeks ago. What could result in a fuel pump dying so quickly?
And my bike is a 2005 M620 (plastic tank) so I don't think the power to the fuel pump goes through the low fuel sensor.
So it kept not starting randomly even with the new fuel pump. I replaced the fuel assembly (the whole flange) from another monster and so far it's been working flawlessly. I'll report back if anything goes wrong again :-)