Ducati Monster Forum

How can something as easy as changing out the front sprocket be so hard?

In trying to remove the clutch slave cylinder, I ended up stripping one of the three screws.  I got the upper two off but the third (lower) one stripped.  So I bought an EZ extractor kit, and ended up breaking the extractor in/on the screw I was trying to remove.  So now, I am going to try drilling around the extractor to get it out, probably destroying my thread.

But before I do this, does anyone know if there is a trick to getting the sprocket off WITHOUT removing the clutch slave cylinder?
I tried getting the chain loose enough to work it off the sprocket without sliding it out but there isnt enough play.

On another note, i find that working on my bike, the hardest part is always loosening screws/bolts.  Was the previous owner of my bike crazy in over-tightening everything or does that just happen as stuff rusts and gets old?

Wish me luck.  I have a ride this weekend and this was suppose to be a quick mod.  bleh

Good tools FTW!

What were you using to remove the screw?

I use an allen socket for everything I can, and only use allen wrenches when absolutely necessary.

From my experience, allen wrenches tend to bend/twist from the torque, deforming the contact area = stripped.

Only problem with that screw is that if the shank is too short on the allen socket, the shank will be at an angle do to the lack for room in that area = stripped.

How did you strip the screw...?  Wrong size allen or was it seized in there...?

I was using an L-shaped allen wrench [bang] . It was the correct size but that da*m screw wasnt going anywhere and i was probably engaging off-axis since it is a tight spot.  I have socket wrenches but the shank are too short to fit in the narrow space. 

Easy out should be one of your last acts of desperation.  One reason is if it breaks have a big problem.  That is a small fastener and can't be really tight.  Get a good penetrating oil like Kroil.  Soak the buggered fastener over night.  The get a chisel about the size of the outer edge of the hex.  Tap counter clockwise and you might get lucky.

Newbie mechanics mostly but....

most people strip bolts for the following reasons, when using an allen key, the key isnt all the way in, when they turn, they dont use  the other hand ot make sure the allen key is square to the bolt thus having one side slip out and then its at an angle. SOmetimes its just a poorly cast bolt or a cheap set of keys.

if you did manage to strip it, EZ outs ONLY WORK when the bolt is already loose but you do not have a head to gain purchase on. it is NOT DESIGNED TO REMOVE BOLTS THAT ARE TIGHT. If you use it, it will 100% snap on you. 

So now you broke your EZ out  and you have to drill it out? Best bet is to do what howie said, use a chisel and try to catch a lip at an angle and hit it in the bolts loosening direction (CCW for RH threads). You want to hook chisle as close to a tangent as you can to the bolt head and give it a wack tangent to the bolts head (assuming its round) id say 75% of the time it will come off this way.

hope this helps. if all else fails, break out the welding machine and weld a nut to it and use a socket on it.

When drill a hole into a bolt without a head, never ever use a RH drill bit unless its a LH bolt. They make LH drill bits for that purpose. sometimes the process of drilling a hole with a LH drill bit will free the bolt up.

Well, I hate to say it, but it sounds like you've got yourself in a corner.

Before I comment further on how you get out of that corner, stop where you are.  I mean it.  STOP.  Take a few pics and post them here unless you have a good, respectable mechanic who can help you with whatever it is you've done.

Getting an EZ out snapped off tells me you didn't tap it firmly into a properly drilled hole. . .and. . . it tells me you didn't keep pressure on the EZ out while trying to extract the stripped bolt.  But I digress.

To answer some of your other questions. . . the difficulty of removing the bolts could be from a few things.  One is that steel (the bolts) are in aluminum (the engine cases).  Over time they will bind to each other since they are dis-similar materials. It's a form of static/electrical bonding.  You need to have assembly paste (that greyish grease-like stuff that Permatex makes).  In some situations, Loctite blue is required in vibration-sensitive fastening, though I don't think this is one of those.

Your previous owner could have dinked around with the clutch slave, but if you were running the OEM part, my guess is that it just froze up.  Was the bike stored outside?  Ridden a number of times through weather and not dried or left wet?  That could have contributed to it.

Now, about your immediate concerns.  A Helicoil will probably be what you need.  Do NOT use heat on your aluminum cases, as they will at the very least weaken them at the location of heat and at most distort them afterwards.  I suggest you do some internet searching on extracting bolts, EZ out use, and Helicoils. 

Post up those pics so we can see how best to get you out of the situation.  All is not lost, just stay calm and don't over-react.

I'll add another tip to the part about using a chisel.  (Which by the way, is your best bet at this point.)

Try first using the chisel in a clockwise manner on the broken ez-out to remove it.

Then use a regular punch about the diameter of the screw head to simply strike directly on the head of the bolt.  Sometimes this shock is enough to contribute to freeing whatever binding forces are on the threads, making removal a bit easier.

Then chisel counter-clockwise on the screw head.

thanks all.  i took hillbilly's suggestion to just stop for now.  i put everything back together so its rideable for this weekend and ill take it to a shop to help me with the pickle I put myself in. 

This sounds like my experience with my rearset bolt.  I was removing my rearset to get them powdercoated.  Did the same thing.  Hex was rounded off, so I tried an EZ out to remove it and after multiple tries broke in in the head.  I had to take mine to a shop because I was too frustrated to try it again after multiple attempts.  Live and learn.

And. . at the very least you're not making the situation worse.

If I were you, I'd ask the tech what they would probably do, so you can learn how to 'un-do' a problem like that.  Also, it would be good for you to get a set of good allen head wrenches (that won't round off, and get a good fit on the bolts of your bike).  A torque wrench and torque chart of your bike would be another invaluable items.  Because. . . .when I had a 748 I over-torqued one of the bolts for the clutch cover.  Turning. . turning . . turning, and I literally slid the bolt out with my hand. . . only to find the bolt had aluminum in the threads.

That'll make your stomach churn.  Then it was Helicoil to the rescue.

Interesting tip about ez-outs and drill bits... they are really hard, so drilling isn't gonna work.  But hard steel also tends to be brittle steel.  Good chance that you can break up the ez-out with a hammer and punch.  Whether you want to do that on the engine case... I dunno.

I think the guy who extracted my EZ-out used heat.

did the exact same thing last night. You won't likely be able to drill the broken part of the easy out.

I dremeled a slot in the bolt head and tapped it out with a hammer  and old screw driver. Came out easy-peasy......wish I had of tried it before the extractor.

 The "right" size EZ out for the job combined with a soldering iron in order to heat would be my preference....Of course I had the dealer do mi e 8)

Still waiting for those pics.

the clutch slave screws often do that, as said they just stick in there.  i usually drill the head off, as the friction causing the issue is between the head and slave.  never had a headless screw left that i couldn't screw out with my fingers (be careful not to cut yourself tho).  but if some idiot has loctited them in or they're corroded you could be screwed.  anti seize doesn't seem to help - i've had to drill out clutch slave screws i know i've lubed and torqued previously.

i try to stay away from ezyout things.  left hand drills work well too.

don't pound the screw heads too hard with a hammer either - altho the cover is supported behind the clutch slave it's still only a fairly thin casting.

make sure the cover screw behind the slave is tight while you have it off too - if they're loose they can leak oil out of the pushrod.

Pun intended...?

Its been a few weeks but I finally had some time off to address this again. 
I took Pitbull's suggestion and I have to give him mad props. [bow_down] I dremmeled a small slot in one side of the head and took a screwdriver + hammer to it.   It took a little over half-dozen hits but it finally gave way. 

I had a few minutes if satisfied elation that I wasnt completely useless!   [beer]

Sadly, it was not to last.  I loosened the chain, took the sprocket off and just for kicks, counted the teeth.
1,2,3....13,14?? hmm, must have miscounted.  I put it up against the new 14t sprocket I bought, and what do you know - they were identical.

I must mention that I bought the bike used - so I was riding on the 14T mod the entire time without knowing.  FML   [bang]
 [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]

I really hope someone out there is laughing at my idiocracy....  bleh

 :)

 ;D


 I would be lying if I said I never had a similar moment.

 [laugh] [clap]

I have to admit that I actually butted out laughing when I read that!

Ya we've all done something like that.

 [laugh]

I'm definitely laughing with you, not at you.  BTDT!