Hi Folks,
I believe this is my first post in Tech. I'm new to working on the bike. I have a limited knowledge but am mechanically inclined. My bike is a carb'd 1998 Monster 750.
After hearing great things about Seafoam, watching and reading what I could find on the net, I decided to try myself.
Into the oil went 6 ounces of Seafoam.
Into the gas tank (which was running on the lower side) went 4 ounces of Seafoam.
Into each nozzle on the carb went 5 ounces of Seafoam.
I waited 15 minutes and then tried to start her up. She won't turn over. She's apparently flooded? After reading more I tried holding the throttle open and starting her up. Tried with choke open, split and closed. It's been about an hour now. Still nothing.
Am I jumping the gun posting here? Do I just need to wait longer or something? Or have I really flooded her badly??? :'( :-[
Any help/advice is greatly appreciated. I'm hoping for "haha newbie, just have patience" but I fear it's "take it to a repair shop" or worse... :-\
That sounds like a lot of liquid to put into each carb mouth.
It sounds like you hydraulic locked the motor. Hopefully you didn't bend a rod.
Pull the plugs and try cranking.
You may need to replace the plugs
Thanks a ton, duck soup, for the quick response.
I'll try that now and post back.
Quote from: StrikeJollyRoger on September 11, 2011, 03:16:37 PM
Thanks a ton, duck soup, for the quick response.
I'll try that now and post back.
Stand back when you crank it over.
You're gonna have seafoam everywhere.
Quote from: duck soup on September 11, 2011, 03:19:19 PM
Stand back when you crank it over.
You're gonna have seafoam everywhere.
I wish I knew that before I had started! At least nothing on the left side of my shed will ever rust. [laugh]
It totally evacuated the chambers! I put the plugs back in and it started up and was going nicely! =)
Thanks so much! I totally thought I was hosed.
So about the possible bent rod I'm a little concerned... what precautions if any should I take? (Other than not repeating my mistake)
Other than disassembling the engine, is there a way I would know about it?
Again, thanks a ton for helping me get out of that fix.
Quote from: StrikeJollyRoger on September 11, 2011, 03:40:34 PM
I wish I knew that before I had started! At least nothing on the left side of my shed will ever rust. [laugh]
It totally evacuated the chambers! I put the plugs back in and it started up and was going nicely! =)
Thanks so much! I totally thought I was hosed.
So about the possible bent rod I'm a little concerned... what precautions if any should I take? (Other than not repeating my mistake)
Other than disassembling the engine, is there a way I would know about it?
Again, thanks a ton for helping me get out of that fix.
Not worth pulling it apart to measure/check.
If it was bent badly you'd already know.
Ride it. [thumbsup]
Change your oil too. Yeah, Seafoam does recommend this if you have excess moisture or sludge. Chance are you have neither, and if you did I would recommend more frequent oil changes.
Thanks. The originally planned work was an oil change and then I remembered that you're supposed to change oil after Seafoaming so I figured I'd get some and try that first.
I also read that it's recommended to change the fuel filter too. Although I'm a little confused as to when. I was figuring I'd let the existing fuel burn down to fumes, fill the tank, replace the filter.
And the ride was great. Acceleration felt smoother, exhaust sounded smoother, engine sounded nicer and it almost seemed most noticeably improved when shifting to higher gear. Not sure if this was just in my head or if it's for real. I'll toss some into my car tomorrow and we'll see if it makes me a believer.
I was also very surprised at how much carbon in the form of smoke came out my exhaust for a bike. I really didn't think it would be that much on a bike with only 13k on the odometer.
was that carbon or just the residual seafoam?
Most of the white smoke is the Seafoam. I think burning carbon has a purplish tint to it.
Hopefully you did it in a well ventilated area, that smoke is some nasty stuff. :o
I suppose that makes more sense and fits more with the expected amount of buildup. Thanks for the correction.
Yup, it was well ventilated. Originally I did it in my shed and had it spitting out into the tiny side yard between houses but upon seeing more than I was expecting, shut it down and brought it to the street where a small breeze floated it along.
Gonna have to bring the car to the parents place where the houses aren't so densely packed. If I do it around my place, I have a feeling the neighbors are gonna want to lynch me.
Quote from: StrikeJollyRoger on September 12, 2011, 06:43:50 AM
Gonna have to bring the car to the parents place where the houses aren't so densely packed. If I do it around my place, I have a feeling the neighbors are gonna want to lynch me.
I just did my car which smoked like crazy. I did it at night ;)
Quote from: StrikeJollyRoger on September 11, 2011, 11:16:33 PM
Thanks. The originally planned work was an oil change and then I remembered that you're supposed to change oil after Seafoaming so I figured I'd get some and try that first.
I also read that it's recommended to change the fuel filter too. Although I'm a little confused as to when. I was figuring I'd let the existing fuel burn down to fumes, fill the tank, replace the filter.
And the ride was great. Acceleration felt smoother, exhaust sounded smoother, engine sounded nicer and it almost seemed most noticeably improved when shifting to higher gear. Not sure if this was just in my head or if it's for real. I'll toss some into my car tomorrow and we'll see if it makes me a believer.
I was also very surprised at how much carbon in the form of smoke came out my exhaust for a bike. I really didn't think it would be that much on a bike with only 13k on the odometer.
That black stuff was nothing more than all the money you spent on Seafoam going up in smoke!
Along with Lucas products, nothing more than snake oil designed to lighten our wallets.
Bob, always ready with a dissenting opinion
In response to Bob, I'd have to say that while I mostly agree, things like Seafoam aren't without merit for certain applications. Up until recently, GM sold and advocated the use of a product that they called "GM Top Engine Cleaner," that basically worked like Seafoam to clean up carbon deposits by introducing it through a vacuum line, stopping the engine, then restarting and blowing all of the smoke out. Having briefly worked in the service engineering dept. of GM, I can tell you that they are very strongly against 99% of additives, so for them to stand behind that says something. (I'm guessing they don't sell it anymore due to environmental rules, not because they changed their mind.)
That said, I sincerely doubt that Seafoam does anything good when put in the oil, and people that I trust in these matters have said that Chevron Techron is one of the only legitimate fuel additives for putting in the fuel.
In addition, the only helpful thing that I would expect it to do is dissolve carbon deposits in the combustion chamber. I'd say that the vast majority of running problems on a carbureted bike are unrelated to carbon deposits. When your bike is running poorly, it's probably time to disassemble/clean your carbs. It's no where near as difficult to do as it is intimidating to do the first time.
Oh, and Lucas makes good oils, in addition to gimmicky additives, so they're not all bad. They also sponsor my favorite team's stadium, so I need to vouch for them.
Quote from: duck soup on September 11, 2011, 03:11:31 PM
You may need to replace the plugs
Just thought to go back and check the plugs but I have no idea what good or bad plugs look like. Any comments?
If they need to be replaced, is there a recommended plug to use on an M750 other than OEM?
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6159/6141012029_cdccd54719_b.jpg)
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6081/6141565306_3795267a4b_b.jpg)
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6198/6141013311_0a270db546_b.jpg)
You need plugs. NGK, DCPR8E, PN NG4339
Quote from: howie on September 12, 2011, 02:18:55 PM
You need plugs. NGK, DCPR8E, PN NG4339
Awesome, thanks. Cancelled my delivery order for the OEMs and they had the NGKs in stock.
Was in the process of posting when you replied. I'll put a couple charts I found here for anyone like me who stumbles across this.
Chart 1 (http://www.motorcycleinfo.co.uk/resources/6795/assets/images/FAQs/electrics/check_spark_plug_condition.jpg)
Chart 2 (http://www.bikebandit.com/assets/digital_assets/How-to-Read-a-Spark-Plug.gif)
I think I was an idiot again. I need confirmation.
When attempting to install the spark plugs, the plugs that came out seemed to be relieved of their terminals. I looked into the plug cap and saw what I believed to be the separated terminal. I tried for a while to dig one out with a pair of needle nose pliers.
When it was too dark to keep working I came in and searched the net some more. It seems that the terminals on spark plugs are removable? I simply unscrew the terminal off the plug, screw the plug into the chamber and stick the plug cap on sans terminal.... and some terminal like piece of metal inside the cap fits over the now bare threads under where the plug terminal had been?
I'm assuming this means I've been damaging the plug cap trying to rip something out that should be in and now need to buy a replacement? [bang]
wth...why are they doing it this way? ???
Contrasting pictures at bottom of this thread relevant (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=51174.0)
Also, does anyone know what size allen key I need for the oil drain plug on a '98 M750? I don't have anything big enough and I'd like to know what to buy. The parts manual doesn't give sizes and the parts guys at the dealership apparently don't know. Seems to be no good resource for bolt/screw sizes.
This learning curve is appearing steep. Glad I'm underway.
The allen wrench size is 10mm. Make sure you tap the wrench all the way in or you'll strip the hex.
They do it that way so they achieve a better connection. You can buy replacement caps...someone will be by with a source.
Quote from: StrikeJollyRoger on September 12, 2011, 10:59:50 PM
I think I was an idiot again. I need confirmation.
Haha, I did the same thing, except I just kept trying to jam the cap on to the terminal thinking that it was a tight fit.
I looked at the old plugs and thought I lost the terminal in the cap, but it wasn't in there. I gave the plug a little twist...viola! I felt pretty stupid. ;D
Quote from: duck soup on September 13, 2011, 03:19:30 AM
The allen wrench size is 10mm. Make sure you tap the wrench all the way in or you'll strip the hex.
... someone will be by with a source.
Thanks for the specs and the little pieces of advice. They're invaluable.
A source would be great too. Dealer wants $11 and doesn't have em in stock anyway. My guess is 'no', but is that a price fair?
A cheaper source on a tank latch would be great too. Dealer wants $17.
Quote from: Dellikose on September 13, 2011, 04:23:24 AM
Haha, I did the same thing
But good for you for figuring it out before bungling it further.
Although it's even sorta funny right now, I can only hope in a few years I can reread all my beginner tech threads and laugh at myself. ...and hopefully reflect that they didn't end up costing me too much money. :P
Engine rebuild skills, here I come!
QuoteA source would be great too. Dealer wants $11 and doesn't have em in stock anyway. My guess is 'no', but is that a price fair?
A cheaper source on a tank latch would be great too. Dealer wants $17.
Your local Sears should have the 10mm allen wrench you need or you could check with other tool sources. You could check ebay for your tank latch or check the parts for sale board here on the DMF. $17 for the latch doesn't sound that bad. I had to buy one when I got my first monster. The real problem was how long it took. Ordering it online could be faster. Check our sponsors for the sale of OEM parts.
Thanks for the recommendations. [thumbsup]
I grabbed the tools from sears and after spending more time than I wanted to searching the net for elusive parts, I copped out and grabbed it all from the dealer. :P Est. 5 - 7 day shipping.
I'll keep the other 3 sources in mind for next time though. I think I'm just trying to get the bike operational as fast as I can at this point.
A local member reached out to offer some help too which was great so it's possible I'll be posting less about all the stuff I trash on my bike during the rest of this series of work I have planned. :D
Quote from: StrikeJollyRoger on September 14, 2011, 08:33:43 PM
Thanks for the recommendations. [thumbsup]
I grabbed the tools from sears and after spending more time than I wanted to searching the net for elusive parts, I copped out and grabbed it all from the dealer. :P Est. 5 - 7 day shipping.
I'll keep the other 3 sources in mind for next time though. I think I'm just trying to get the bike operational as fast as I can at this point.
A local member reached out to offer some help too which was great so it's possible I'll be posting less about all the stuff I trash on my bike during the rest of this series of work I have planned. :D
but...
we might get bored. ;D