Ducati Monster Forum

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 I work in nursing facilities.  It doesn't matter if you have kids or not.  They wouldn't visit you anyway.    :P

Very similar situation here.  We just had our first child after 17 years of marriage though.  The wife and I heard the selfish comments for years.   [roll]   We just weren't ready until now.  I have a lot of friends and family who don't want to have kids.  Nothing wrong with that.  I don't know why it's being "selfish".

I am a member of the child-less club as well and we are not sure it's for us.  Our "friends" can Phuk off if they take that stance IMO.  It's our life and my family alone has 22 members, brother and sister with kids.  I won't even go into my cousins and such.  We have enough kids to borrow and return  8)

Nothing wrong with your choice...people are funny about culling friends out of their personal herds due to various reasons/circumstances/common prevailing interests etc

I know a woman who had two sons 1 ten years old and 1 twelve years old.....the 12 year old was killed in a skiing accident and after all the funeral condolences etc the rest of the mothers dropped her like a handful of warm sh!t

didn't want to catch the "tragedy cooties" or something

bouts with potentially fatal illnesses can also turn a person's social life into an echo chamber

most humans suck...

thank you for not potentially adding to the suckage  [thumbsup]

My low periods of life showed me that most people are not realizing they could make a difference.
It seems they are scared to step up.
Of course it didn't help that my previous 'front' was very self secure and independent.

Being single excluded me from parties when my old friends had kids.
Again, I think they just don't want to deal with 'different' or they are envious/threatened by a single guy...

I sometimes miss having kids, but I think Nirvana is in getting along and make peace with myself.
If I have kids because I fear being alone, I think it's better to work on my issues.

Typing from my phone, too tedious to go into a few stories but I knew at least from mid-teen years that having kids wasnt of any interest. Late 40's now & still no desire.

Dont recall any direct hits with the 'selfish' slap but have heard it in conversation & did, as I do, butt in to add my thoughts on that label. And fortunately never had pressure from family.  A few past b/f's pushed for the marriage thing with the underlying reason of following the local and social norm - having kids.

I moved to Colorado for weather & outdoor living purposes several years ago (didn't know 1 person) & what I wasn't expecting was the number of people I'd meet (now very close friends) who made same decision as I did - lucky me!  (I still have great friends with kids - but they are definitely different relationships than w/friends w/o kids.)

Still typing from phone & this is only a tiny bit of my contribution to the topic (and questions about your situation).

 [thumbsup]


 

Our first daughter just tirned 17 months today, with a nother one due in march it hasnt changed my attitude towards anyone.  Yea, the hanging out with friends changes a bit because of kids.. i work 10 hours a day 6 days a week.. so with free time you normally want to spend it with family..  i still try to get out but its just a bit more difficult.  Parties, i dont exclude anyone.. i rather have a bunch of childless friends come over.. then you dont have to worry about breaking, injuries and the like..  you need better freinds..  my fam is huge too. 7 aints and 2 uncles on my father side.. all have 3 or more lids and cousins almost all have kids...  i have 3 nieces and that sister throws all the parties lol..

My wife and I made this decision before we married 21 years ago and Up until about 2 years ago I never questioned it. We had reasons, some good some bad some selfish. We looked into Adoption 2 years ago and the system scares the poop out of me. So we shelved that and will live our lives together but alone.

I think the worse part of it all was I found out thru others that my in laws were bad talking us behind our backs about it. That pissed me off quite a bit and it has become an issue with our relationship.

most of our friends have kids and i love and spoil them but after they get kids the friendships changed. I guess it is OK but I miss some of the stuff we used to do.

The main reason I see for having kids (if you are educated and well off is exemplified here:)

Idiocracy Intro (HR titlovi) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXRjmyJFzrU#)

My 2 (and soon to be 3) children are without a doubt one of the best things that have ever happened to me.  Sure, I miss the time alone....but the memories with the kids far outweigh anything I've "missed".  The older they get (little boy is 3 now) the more fun they become.

I'm giddy thinking how fun it will be to teach them all how to ride. [thumbsup]

I've already had that conversation with the Mrs.  Ducatizzy Jr will be getting a minibike as soon as he's old enough and can handle a bicycle. 

2 kids are for quitters. You need to have at least 3, so that they out number you.

Sounds like your friends and family suck.

My wife and I didn't plan on having kids, and everyone knew that. My parents were disappointed since I'm an only child but they never laid the guilt trip on me or anything. My wife's sisters all have 2 or 3 kids, and they and their families never gave us a hard time either. I think some of them were jealous!  [laugh]

Many of our friends have kids and we were never excluded from things, although the time spent with them did go down since their schedule was now dictated by their kids. That's understandable.

When changed our mind and now have a child (almost 2 y/o). Again, friends and family are still great. We do spend less time with our friends, but that is just because our schedule now revolves around our son to a large extent and going out can be difficult (plus we're more tired than we used to be). All of our friends understand that, even the single ones. It's all good. We still invite our single friends over though, since going out is much more difficult.

To recap...sounds like your friends and family suck.  :-\ Keep in mind though, your single friends that had kids are going to be available less...that's just how it is (and should be). Maybe they aren't blowing you guys off...maybe they're just exhausted!  ;)

I'm only allowed to have 2 per sister wife.

+1 Just picked up a KX60 as a stablemate for the XR70.  Man that thing is LOUD and mischief inspiring!  I might have made a bad decision.

9 year old is pretty good on the Honda and is excited about learning what a clutch is!

[Threadjack] As part of my spousal negotiations I will be needing to get rid of either a Blata project or an electric Razor 400.  Blata needs a full stripdown, Razor needs a battery. [Threadjack Over]

 [thumbsup]

I've already got an XR50 for my son and he's only 2.  [laugh] A friend was selling it for a good price, so I figured might as well get it now.

He already likes to ride on it. He sits in front of me on it and we coast down the walkway in our back yard, and up onto a small dirt pile. Gotta start small.  ;D

 [thumbsup] [thumbsup] [thumbsup]

I bought my son a push bike (balance bike?) about 3 months ago.  Teaches them to counter-steer instead of driving it like a tricycle.  He's come from falling down every 2 feet to being able to ride a sizable hill.  Really cool moment is when it "clicked".  You could see him thinking about it, and then he started counter-steering and leaning all on his own.

Far from perfect, but there is a yamaha 50 waiting for him on Xmas day :)

My son has one as well (KTM brand...ya, I'm a sucker  [laugh]). I had to remove the seat because he is too short to have it on. He's starting to figure it out now though, which is cool to see.  [thumbsup]

Guess we should stop threadjacking the child-less thread!  [cheeky]

yeah you silly reproducing threadjackers!!  [laugh]

although, that is kinda a perfect example of what happens in real life with the peeps with kids when talking to the peeps without,,many times the conversations just organically change to be about the kids.... not necessarily a bad thing

Meh. I generally don't find people's kids NEARLY as fascinating as they do.

 [coffee]

Properly handled, parenthood is a monumental, important undertaking. I applaud those with the fortitude to do it well.

Occasionally I'll have a flashing, fleeting notion of what may be regret that I didn't produce a blood heir.

However, that said, by my highly scientific studies kids are little more than one terrifying drama after another, a constant and relentlessly consistent drain on your finances, your social life, and your peace and quiet. And don't forget the gradual destruction of everything you own. Simply have a kid and, presto, your life just became a million times harder. You might as well have lopped off one of your major limbs. 

And then you'll get the argument, aren't they cute? Sometimes. But mostly not really, not to anyone but you, smack that thing with a bible already. Realistically, if all you want is cute get a cool dog and then fold up a pirate hat out of some old newspaper. Ta-da!

I prefer to be a bad example to other people's kids. That way I can pass on my legacy without the financial burden of having my own troublemakers.

Can't really argue that!  [laugh]

It is simply human nature to talk about what is most important to you and what consumes most of your time. Also, it is normal to be more comfortable around people with similar interests. Not to mention you always see the same people at the kids' activites. And finally, if someone makes it clear that they don't like hearing about what is important to you, or participating in those activites it is often easier to move on.

So....people don't invite you over and it's *their" fault?


(http://demotivators.despair.com/dysfunctiondemotivator.jpg)

Here's a hint-if you want nothing to do with what's the most important thing in the world to your friends....well-it's not exactly being a good friend, now is it?

<=== playing devils advocate...

could it be that us childless people could in some ways just be extra sensitive to the kid talk... ? people in general tend to talk about what is most important in their lives. i tend to talk a lot about my dogs, especially my dog fasa who is the worlds greatest being (see what i did there?  [cheeky]) .. i do try to notice when my friends eyes have glossed over & i change the subject... but maybe we are a little more aware of the kid talk because we are very much aware we dont have kids of our own....

im 38 & not only do i not have kids, ive never been married.. you think hearing the talk from friends & family about the selfishness & needing someone to take care of you & looking at you like youre an alien for not having kids, try being a 38 year old unmarried female.. apparently having a husband is supposed to be my ultimate goal in life :)

i think its all about perspective. i LOVE kids, i dont want any, but i love them, so i dont mind hearing about them sometimes. for the most part i enjoy kids more than adults, they arent so jaded & they still think simple things like helium balloons are the best part of life. :) as far as friends disappearing on you once they start families, yeah that definitely happens. but there are time constraints on them & you lose commonality. your friends tend to realize that a birthday party for a 3 year old isn't going to be the highlight of your saturday. i have come to realize that if i point it out to my friends that i dont mind hanging out when they are having the kid functions, they tend to include me more often.

To YOU. Realize that your friend's priorities have changed since they've had kids. Deal with it, and don't be all pissy that they don't want to hang out with you non-stop anymore.  :)

Childless people get tired of hearing how they should have children (understandable). Keep in mind though...parents get tired of hearing from their childless friends how they've changed. No shit we've changed!

oh boy...theres an admin with a lock button coming on soon..i just know it!

 [popcorn]

And you apparently resent them for it.

You need 3 so we can get a better participation rate in the SS Ponzi scheme  ;D  I am at 2 w/ another on the way in November.

To the OP - I don't think you are being excluded from things.  I just think that in general most people w/ kids don't do much socially.

mitt (busy as heck)

ok here i go playing devils advocate again...

its not an us versus them issue... neither side should take it personally... loopsrider is just venting, unfortunately it was done in a bit of a "poke you with a stick" kind of way...

i think this post should just serve to remind those peeps with children to maybe be aware & a little more sensitive to your friends without them... and vice versa for the people without kids to be aware that their friends with kids have different priorities & interests...

it's kinda like having a friend when youre little you have everything in common then but you grow up & one of you is a nasa scientist & the other is a hand model lol... you no longer have much in common except your childhood but that doesnt mean you should stop caring about your friend & think that what they do is meaningless...

loopsrider, i totally get what youre saying about feeling excluded, but seriously try confronting your friends/family in a nice way & tell them it bothers you. many times people are just oblivious to the feelings of others or just assume you wouldnt be interested so fail to provide the invite... :)

it really is that simple.. when you use your voice, you have a voice & even if others dont comply, it makes you feel better :)

now im threadjacking... but one more thing...

im also like you loopsrider where i had family to take care of from a young age. my 2 nephews & niece came to live with me when i was only 20 & i had a huge part in helping to raise them growing up even before they lived with me. they are 9, 10 & 12 years younger than i am. you give up a lot of your own childhood when you get stuck in a position like that..

i admit that im selfish in the sense that i enjoy being able to get up & do whatever i want whenever i want without having to worry about childcare or dragging out half a bedroom worth of stuff to keep a baby entertained while we're going grocery shopping. i also like sleeping in on weekends & spending money on myself...but im aware of that selfishness, so in a way i think it's being selfless to not bring a kid into a situation where you are fully aware you wont give them all of the energy they deserve to have.

when people mention the selfish part i just point out all of the horrible parents. all of the kids growing up in dysfuntional environments that i know of (sadly there is so many) & highlight how selfish that is, people tend to shut up then :)

Nope, not at all. Like I said, I get along with my friends regardless of who does or doesn't have kids. You're the one who started the thread...so I'd say you're the sensitive one here.


My blunt (but true) response was due to your insult above. You may backtrack and say it wasn't meant as an insult be we all know that is bullshit. There are quite a few ways to say the same thing without coming across as insulting, or at least condescending.

Ooooo internet fight

(http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le9jljsm501qzaxefo1_500.jpg)

lol! instigator!!  [cheeky]

I don't have kids (32). No desire or plan for them. But, I enjoy the hell out of kids that belong to friends of mine (one family specifically). We stay in touch. I'm included in events whenever I'm in town. I pick the rugrats up from school/daycare. And sit for them so the 'rents can go out and have an evening. I get pictures of them via text message weekly. I reply with pics of surfing, jeeping, sleeping in until 11am. We know our lives are different from before he was married w/ children. We embrace the difference and tease each other for it. I get my "kid" fix and he gets to live vicariously through my single life.

Then you should find a new board to hang out on. Threads tend to "drift" on the DMF.  [laugh]

Damn. Still only on phone - tedious enough just typing this but great solo dinner time reading. thanks to all the 'rents out here posting instead of paying attention to your ankle biting dependents.

 ;)

First, sorry to hear about being laid up - get well soon.  Hopefully, you don't die of your injury.  Alone.  Selfish.  Childless...less...ees..es...s..s.


:)


On the subject of selfishness, I would never say that living your life without having kids is selfish.  In many ways, having kids the most selfish thing you could possibly do.  But it just so happens that the most insufferably selfish people in my life don't have kids.  In other words not having kids does not result in you being selfish, but in my experience it has everything to do with why one would choose not to have children.  

I sense that my childless friends are a little resentful that I don't make more time to accommodate their lifestyle.  They dance around it, but never seem to come out and say it.  I think this is the third rail for people without kids - they don't dare challenge the sanctity of parenthood by suggesting their lifestyle is of equal significance with the married with kids.  Or whatever.  What they don't realize is that I don't give a shit nearly as much as I used to.  I still care about them, and want them to be happy, but I don't think they realize the amount of priority displacement that goes on once you start reproducing.   Do I want them to be happy?  I do.  Do I want to contribute to their happiness at the expense of family happiness?  Nope, make the beast with two backs that.  

Happiness of my friends now happens on a best-effort basis.  It is not something that makes me happy to admit, or to deal with.  I would say that parenthood has taught me a lot about my own limitations - I wish I could meet my standards for good parenting while maintaining a active social life, indulge myself in my hobbies, start up another degree plan, exercise as much as I want, etc.  I wish there were enough hours in the day to do all of these - I can only do about 1.5 of those things at a time and being a good parent is 1.0 of them.


So, you're a little hurt your friends don't call you up, share family events with them more often.  But if they did, you would prefer the family event not be dominated by talk about family stuff?  

I think I understand what you are saying, but I don't think you realize how you sound.

 [popcorn]

Points 1, 2, & 4 are perfectly valid.

3. People tend to talk about what is going on in their lives. Parents, especially ones with young children, usually don't have much else going on. Some, like myself, try not to bore people with stories of their children; however, it can be hard to keep from creeping in though.

5. Is your girlfriend being excluded...as in are the "mommies" doing motocross without her, or are they doing other child related things instead of motocross now? If it's the latter she probably isn't being shunned intentionally, its just that their interests have changed. Does she really want to go to a play date as an example?

I may have missed it but I have not seen you mention that you've actually spoken to any of these people about their behaviour.

Have you?

A little over a year ago, the New York mag ran a story called "All Joy and No Fun," describing why parents hate parenting.  It's an interesting article and may provide another perspective to this discussion:
http://nymag.com/news/features/67024/ (http://nymag.com/news/features/67024/)

Personally, I have no desire to reproduce and don't understand those that do. 

Proud member of the "CBC" club... had 2 relationships end because they decided they wanted kids, knowing full well that I had no intentions of bringing a mini-me into this world.

Funny thing is, all my friends that have had kids still include me in everything.  I'm always being invited to birthday parties, family gatherings... and now graduations (ugh).  

I am known as Uncle Wade, and have at least 50 nieces and nephews (only two are truly related).

I love "rent-a-kids" I can have all the fun in the world with them... and when the shit hits the fan, it's the best form of birth control in the world!

I too have heard the selfish label, not from my parents or any family, but from friends of friends.   I love when they bring up the "who is going to take care of you when you are older" line.    My typical response is:  Who is more selfish, me for not wanting kids, or you promoting procreation for the purpose of having a support system in place when you revert to shitting your pants again?

Call me an asshole, call me selfish... I am going to try again this winter to get a vasectomy.  Tried 10 years ago at 26, doctor refused.  Tried 5 years ago and my insurance said no.   Now, I've got a nice HSA thru work that will cover the "snip" and a cool ass "CBC" doctor who is going Ducati shopping in the spring!  

I don't think I have.  And I will suggest for the second time in this thread that we are talking about things you don't want to talk about and that seems to be an issue...

Points:
1. I don't really understand the full court press - suffice it to say, these are not good people.   I say this as a parent that socializes with other parents - assholes with kids are still assholes, irrespective of your parental status.  You get no passes from assholes with kids once you have kids is what I saying.
2. "Most of the activities aren't really that intersting to me anyway"  I laughed out loud when I read this.  I am not trying to condescend, but it suggests it is more about your social life, and less about inclusion, dovetailing into your friends' new life.  But why do you feel it is different with family than with friends?
3. You started a thread about not having kids.  If you start a topic called "coins:  don't tails rule?" don't think to harshly of anyone who opines "tails are OK, but I always call heads". If you want a better sample of threads that may or may not digress into kid talk, refer to any other thread started in this subject or any other other.  
4. I won't pretend to know anything about your family dynamic, but would it make you feel any better if your siblings were just financially irresponsible?  I feel again that there is subtext here and like the other examples you have provided, I don't see how your decision to not have children is the singular issue.
5.  I have no idea on this one.  The female friendship is a totally ineffable thing to me.

some are damned if they do have them,

some are damned if they don't

as a parent I can say...

the odds of ducking damnation are probably a lot better

by not having them  :)

Don't make me stop this car.

Tails are OK, but I always call heads. 

Our $2 coin has heads on both sides  ;D.

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqHl_br9TDScPoto1IkNtTqGxzZQK5i19G2MKnk_Prc2NjnsfpgQ)

Tails who make the beast with two backsin' needs 'em  [cheeky]

But I digress.

Are we there yet?

but what if you're an assman?

Um.... doing it that way you're certain to remain childless. 

Right back on topic  ;D.

who said anything about doing anything? 

the VIEW my friend, the VIEW

I have no desire to have kids, and no desire to be married.

the ex and i were together for 6.5 years. she feels the same way as i do.
as our friends started getting married and not hanging out as much we started getting hit with questions about when we were going to join the cult (it really was like being recruited)
they started buying houses and they wondered why we prefered to rent. Their houses are 30 miles away from work and there is nothing to do out there unless you are married and have kids.
as they started having kids they had another thing to hammer us with and make us feel uncomfortable about.
They eventually got the hint when we would simply walk away from the conversation as they started throwing jabs out. I see some of the married w/ kids group more often than others. They don't go out as often as they are happy to be where they are and doing what they are doing. I can always make new friends who actually have the time and desire to hang out.

my family never really bothered me with it. then again, i don't see my family often
her mother on the other hand was relentless and tbh is a part of why we broke up. eventually she got over the marriage thing, but she wanted us to have a kid so she could have a grandkid to play with and spoil. This was in direct opposition to our stated mission of never bringing a child into the world when we weren't ready to be responsible in any way shape or form.

I like the rev's idea of getting snipped.  [thumbsup]
rule#1 is no babies

Once the educated and interesting people stop reproducing....

Idiocracy Intro (HR titlovi) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXRjmyJFzrU#)

Much as I love Mike Judge's, uh, "subtle" social commentary, repeated viewings are still not gonna convince me that I need to save the human race.  ;)

Some humans really suck.  Like the saying goes "to each their own".  I loose respect for family and friends that continually criticize their "loved ones" actions/decisions and don't deal with their own issues.  We all have issues, there's nothing wrong with that.  People that try to control others (passively or verbally) really disgust me.  If you chose not to have kids, that's your choice and everyone should respect that.  What's selfish to them may not be selfish to you and the other way around. 

I have a 9y/o son a 1y/o daughter; I can't see my life without them.  Both my wife and I have had to "sacrifice" a lot for them.  They take a lot of work and dedication; but like others have mentioned, the memories of the times with them as well as raising up better humans beings that you are imo outweighs all that we have put aside to raise them.  I personally think that, mostly on the feminine side, the urge to bear children is like an instinct that will come sooner or later.  If you think about it, it's what has kept our species in this planet for a long time.  I've seen plenty of long relationships broken because it comes a time that the wife/so is reaching mid 30s and all of sudden wants to have a kid even though they got together agreeing they will never have kids.  Each of us makes choices and others may think they're not the right one.  make the beast with two backs them, live your life and put them aside if it really bother you, but don't play their game by doing the same thing they do.  Live and let live! 

Recently, a former co-worker said to me that single people must be living a useless life.  They just go home and watch tv and that's it.  I was like dude, I am single and your view of single people life is nuts and insulting.  

I am approaching forty in couple of years from now and have never married and am single.  The single part is ok as I am used to it.  Would I rather not be single, ofcourse yes.  But kids, I think that boat has sailed past me.  I don't think I have energy or the financial means to create a good life for a kid at my age now.  I just don't think it will be fair.  All i see in the future, is more hardship in this world trying to make ends meet in this so called global economy with so much out-sourcing etc.  Get older, life gets harder and harder both health-wise and financially.  I always remember what someone said to me five years ago when I expressed this very same opinion.  He said, I am letting corporations and economy dictate my life and let them win.  I am starting to believe that he was right  unfortunately.  When I was in college, I had it all planned out.  At 25 I was gonna get married and have kids.  Well, none of it worked out.  I incremented it to 30.  And so on.  I think after losing the girl i loved at 27 to heart problems after being on and off for 5 years in a complicated relationship, something in me changed and now I am the still single living in an apartment.   I would have married her and lived a different life than i am living now but it was not meant to be (may she RIP).  Few other relationships I had after that could have worked, but I sabotaged it or just bailed afraid of losing my independance and just not being ready.  I want to buy a house and am in a position to buy a small house and settle, but still can't make that move and still live almost out of suit cases as if in college.  Not exactly marriage material I guess.

As for what people say about having kids because they will take care of them in old age.  BS !  They have thier own lives.  They  will visit you only on  the holidays.  Good luck :-) I mean that is just total non-sense reason to procreate for this reason.  

I can't hang with most of my friends as they are married now.  They don't get me anymore and I don't either.  Pool of friends is dwindling and I am now the wierdo in their eyes.  LOL  Hey I just keep on living and trying to survive....

Oh, all the married people around me seem to think I have tons of cash.  Having two bikes, they think I am so loaded.  I wish that were true.  They don't seem to get that I have to constantly save a lot on one income cause when rainy day comes, I have nobody except me to lift me up.  No secondary income to cushion me from the wifie or anyone for that matter.

In short -
Would I have liked to have kids ?   Yes.  Would have been cool to see lil me and try to mold him/her.  But alas, it did not happen.
Is single life a curse ?  Nah, it's cool if you can learn to live with yourself. Got it's ups and downs.
Do people think you are weird ?  Yes, especially as 40 is coming up, I am getting a lot of comments about why.  One co-worker lady even said, it's best if I start saying "I am divorced" .. Darn!  Has it come to that ?

Oh well, I will stop.  Interesting topic.  I will have to read all the posts...



 

Nah.  It's come to: time to stop paying attention to your coworkers.


Kinda hard to do when loopsrider has deleted his posts.  ???


 Quote from: loopsrider on September 14, 2011, 08:31:30 PM
"...4/ The fact that siblings play the "kid card" to opt out on taking care of aging family members pisses me off to no end. According to my siblings I must have an endless bank account and can afford to take care of my mother without their help...."

Saw this xkcd and thought of your siblings, loopsrider...

(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/family_decals.png)

you're an anomaly then.  it's very well established that childless people have more liquidity as a population.  you have no idea how much kids cost and it blows your mind when you start spending $500/month in diapers.  We are looking at schools for our kids -- starting price is around $15k/year. 


older dads can make better kids.  my wife's father was 40-soemthing when he had his first child.  three kids:  one doctor, one engineer, one lawyer. 

WTF are you feeding your kid, or how many in diapers do you have? $500/mo in diapers?!?! Geez...we spend maybe $200, maybe. Big ass box of Huggies from Target.

Agreed on school/daycare. We're paying ~$1,900/month for daycare. Ugh!!

That's for two kids, and I might be over estimating some.  We tried using cheaper diapers but they always broke or sucked otherwise.

Most people do not change their kids diapers enough.  We changed them as soon as they were wet.  Not once did either kid have rash or anything.  No matter what the maker says, they simply do not keep the kid dry enough.  leave a wet diaper on a kid and you end up with fungus balls.

If you're getting daycare and not school, you can get the dep child care credit, i think it's up to 5000 per kid now.

$500 per month or even $200 per month shocks me!  We got a whole stash of cloth diapers for $200.   Wash and dry and they are good to go again.

I agree most people do not change diapers frequently enough. 

And the kid gets a rash, too.

wash and dry?

you mean after scraping the shit off, right?  you can't toss a cloth diaper into your washing machine with a quarter pound of turd on it.

we tried that for one month.  our washing machine was going constantly and we were going thru a gallon of bleach every week.  what we saved in cash money was lost in time dealing with scraping shit and washing washing washing washing. 

plenty of people have tried to compare the environmental impact and cost of cloth diapers vs disposable.  if you're a stay at home mom, then it works time-wise, but environmentally, it is terrible.  you have to sterilize them so that means hot water and bleach which means cost to heat water and dumping bleach into the drains.

Yes wash and dry.  There are these neat inventions called diaper sprayers that make it easy to get poop off, no scraping needed.  BTW poop from exclusively breastfed babies (typically the first 6 months) is water soluble and does just wash off.

We don't use chlorine bleach, it's bad for the septic.  We are still able to get them completely clean, it just took a little trial and error to work out the process that works for us.  We line dry.  Yes we use hot water but our washer is efficient and only uses the amount we need.   I'm not a SAHM, our nanny does the diaper laundry during the week.  We wash every other day and it doesn't take very much time once you get into a rhythm.

Many of those popularized studies comparing the environmental impact were funded by diaper companies and are quite biased. 

How many times do those disposable diapers blow out and then you are doing extra laundry for the clothing?  Cloth diapers contain everything.  Overall kids potty train earlier with cloth diapers so there is added savings right there.

BTW we also do EC (elimination communication) so much of the time we are just cleaning out a potty instead of a diaper.  This really has the lowest environmental impact.

fixed

Forgot to add, technically you are not supposed to dispose of human poop in the garbage, so you should be scraping it out of the disposables too.

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with cloth but I know many people who are successfully and happily using it.

Many people use disposables without any issues as well. I'm childless at this point so maybe my opinion doesn't matter, but I don't think there is a single "right" way to do it.

To relate back to the original topic, as a childless person, one of the things that frustrates me about people with children is their ability to judge other parents. Why would I want to listen to friends of ours disparage other friends for their parenting choices on diapers? Or breastfeeding? Or any of the other myriad of child related decisions out there. Kinda sucks to see friends become judgmental pricks to each other when their choices differ.

 [thumbsup]  We use cloth diapers exclusively on our 1 y/o.  I was hesitant at first (wife's idea), but now I back it 100%.  Initial investment is in the few hundreds, but I think it's worth it all the way.  Once you dial the process in and use good detergent it's easy.  I attached a spray hose from HD and Ace bought parts to one of our bathrooms.  Works like a charm!  And yes, dispensing poop in garbage is technically illegal.  

Sorry J, I didn't say it was wrong to use disposables, I was trying to point out that there is a good alternative option that is significantly cheaper.


I agree that there is too much judgment going on, but I don't see that it is just parents doing it.  I also see a lot of non-parents making judgmental comments about other people's children or parenting styles.  Maybe there is something about kids that just brings it out of people. :-\

I'm not sure where you got that.  No restriction on it here or anywhere around here.


It wasn't bad as much as it was just unnecessary work.  We can't line dry because of the humidity and prohibition on line drying in our neighborhood (no joke).  If you're not using something to disinfect the diaper, and only hot water, then you are not disinfecting them.

Our kids were breast fed for the first year but once they were eating solid food it was elephant dump city.  You can spray all you want.  Once that stuff worked into the fibres, forget it.

loopsrider is loving this thread now.  [laugh] Not only threadjacked, but threadjacked by people talking about poo!!  [laugh] [laugh]

 [laugh]  [laugh]
Kiddie poo strikes again! 

Guess the poop threadjack will continue. [laugh]


I didn't say illegal.  I'm sure that depends on your locality.  I do believe it is illegal in many European countries.  It is against the guidelines of the World Health Organization (and others), to protect our water supply.  If you actually read the instructions that come with disposable diapers they will also specify disposing of the solid waste in the toilet.


There are ways to disinfect besides chlorine bleach.

At least the threadjack reminds me why I have no desire to spawn. 

'cuz your shit don't stink? ;D

Because the only diapers I'll ever have to worry about will be mine. 

I'm guessing even you will have a harder time with your own than you would a babies...

I could be wrong.

or at least have a cute nurse help you in and out.  [coffee]

2 out of three  [thumbsup].  Not a bad result at all  ;D

you should see the lawyer daughter.. i'm just sayin'

So, your wife is a doctor or an engineer then....

they're all hot, but she's the one that got a boob job... ;-)

 [roll]

Threadjack finished.

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