I feel like I have heard about this before. I was approaching a stop sign last night. As the road turned and i applied the breaks and down shifted the engine stalled and the rear wheel locked up. I managed not to shit myself or crash the bike. Its a 2010 1100 s. Any thoughts?
Please let me know if anyone has a similar experiance or knows of a potential cause. I was shaken up a bit and I don't want this happening at high speeds in a turn. The bike was leaning a little, maybe it has to do with a bank sensor? The replacement gas tank had also been installed earlier that day. She only has 3500 miles.
Just out of curiosity, how fast were you going, what gear were you in, were you applying the rear brake at the time, and....not to offend you....how long have you been riding motorcycles?
I've never had any issues with a rear wheel locking up when an engine stalls while going down the road. At just about any speed over 5 mph, the engine will keep turning with the clutch engaged, even if the engine is off. My wife likes to play "Killswitch" where she sneaks up on you while going down the road and hit your kill switch when you aren't expecting it. Usually, even as slow speeds, I pull the clutch in, turn the killswitch to "on", and just bump start the engine while going down the road. Even when something went wrong with the bike, such as bad regulator and running out of juice, broken negative battery cable, carb issue, and even a simply cold-engine backfire killing the engine when taking off too soon without letting it warm up enough, I have never run into the problem you describe. The only time I've heard of a rear wheel locking up is when the engine, tranny, wheel bearing, or chain becomes trash and finds some way to lock up the engine/rear wheel.
Quote from: Desmo Demon on September 26, 2011, 08:31:57 AM
Just out of curiosity, how fast were you going, what gear were you in, were you applying the rear brake at the time, and....not to offend you....how long have you been riding motorcycles?
I've never had any issues with a rear wheel locking up when an engine stalls while going down the road. At just about any speed over 5 mph, the engine will keep turning with the clutch engaged, even if the engine is off. My wife likes to play "Killswitch" where she sneaks up on you while going down the road and hit your kill switch when you aren't expecting it. Usually, even as slow speeds, I pull the clutch in, turn the killswitch to "on", and just bump start the engine while going down the road. Even when something went wrong with the bike, such as bad regulator and running out of juice, broken negative battery cable, carb issue, and even a simply cold-engine backfire killing the engine when taking off too soon without letting it warm up enough, I have never run into the problem you describe. The only time I've heard of a rear wheel locking up is when the engine, tranny, wheel bearing, or chain becomes trash and finds some way to lock up the engine/rear wheel.
HEY !!!
We play killswitch all the time.. [thumbsup]
- Maybe some more riding experience is in order here... just a thought ( not meant to be a bash)
I've had the 696 die on me when approaching the first or second stop sign down the street from my house once or twice. Each time on a cold start, shortly after shutting the fast idle/enrichener lever back to the normal position.
I've assumed that so far in my case it was just a normal low idle cold stall.
Never been a problem, always pulled the clutch in right away (perhaps instinctively).
If you were downshifting into too low of a gear you will get that feel of a lockup, but it's just the motor is turning at a different speed than you should be at for the speed you are going. that's why many of the newer bikes have the semi-slipper. otherwise you would get rear wheel chatter which would have probably freaked you out if you never experienced it.
also, as far as a cold motor... yes, I've had the same situation. Bike not idling at 1200rpm and warm.. it will stall if I pull in the clutch and not rev it.
BUT I'm curious about your replacement gas tank issue? what happened that they replaced it?
oh. and what the hell is a bank sensor?
Quote from: Raux on September 26, 2011, 09:19:16 AM
oh. and what the hell is a bank sensor?
I've read where some bikes have a sensor so that if the bike falls over, it automatically kills the engine - such as in the event of a crash. I don't know of any bikes that actually have one, though. None of my bikes have one.
so let me get this straight.
he was in a turn with a decent about of lean and downshifting?
Maybe this should be in the riding techniques section instead of the general section
Quote from: Raux on September 26, 2011, 09:19:16 AM
oh. and what the hell is a bank sensor?
This:
http://www.aerostich.com/bank-angle-sensor.html (http://www.aerostich.com/bank-angle-sensor.html)
- Seriously the Monsters have no such items. Dump it on it's side and it'll keep running
Quote from: Sad Panda on September 26, 2011, 09:45:19 AM
This:
http://www.aerostich.com/bank-angle-sensor.html (http://www.aerostich.com/bank-angle-sensor.html)
- Seriously the Monsters have no such items. Dump it on it's side and it'll keep running
yep I know that :-X
The bike likely doesn't have to be cold to stall. My 848 would stall at random at intersections, regardless of temp. I've heard some complain of the newer Monsters doing it as well. It sucks. The fix for my 848 was a new ecu map (race ecu with Termi package).
My guess is the rear wheel didn't fully lock, but may have felt as though it did due to the low speed.
Anyway, shouldn't be a huge issue at speed, so i wouldn't worry about it. They aren't known for stalling at speed, but if a bike stalls at speed just release the clutch and it'll re-start. If it's in a false neutral just bang it up a gear and it'll re-start. No biggie. I've had it happen on my race bike a few times (before I raised the idle) when I wouldn't hit the lever right and I'd get a false neutral. The cause is a completely different issue obviously...but a stall at speed is a stall at speed.
Quote from: Desmo Demon on September 26, 2011, 09:23:30 AM
I've read where some bikes have a sensor so that if the bike falls over, it automatically kills the engine - such as in the event of a crash. I don't know of any bikes that actually have one, though. None of my bikes have one.
Harleys have had these for some time - it's also part of the self-cancelling turn signal circuit (if the sensor registers the forces of a lean it shuts off the signals after it senses the bike come back upright).
I don't know of any other manufacturers that are using them though...
I know what Harley has them.
Cause they rarely wear gear, so they aren't expecting their riders to get up after a wreck.
Quote from: Raux on September 26, 2011, 12:09:20 PM
I know what Harley has them.
Cause they rarely wear gear, so they aren't expecting their riders to get up after a wreck.
Amusing stereotype and true too often, but spend some time around actual Harley RIDERS and you'll be surprised how many wear gear these days. But then again, I've been riding Harleys (and wearing Aerostich on em) for going on 2 decades...
eh just a joke
Quote from: Desmo Demon on September 26, 2011, 08:31:57 AM
Just out of curiosity, how fast were you going, what gear were you in, were you applying the rear brake at the time, and....not to offend you....how long have you been riding motorcycles?
No offense taken. I have been riding on and off since I was 12 maybe (dirt bikes) and Im 31 now. I will say I can always be better and do, like anyone, make mistakes. This was a problem probably resulting from a couple things. I may have reacted poorly when the tack went blank and the motor stopped for the brief moment. I will also try to post a pic or two of the stop sign, the curve in the road, and the tire. I was not leaning over much and probably in second going into first when she cut out.
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i261/ADDuncan101/skidmark.jpg)
(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i261/ADDuncan101/tire.jpg)
Well not very helpfull pics but..... I have also got a HD. Never had any issue with it. This stall thing happend at least one other time I can remember. I was coming to a sign downshifting and applying the brakes apropriatly. The ECU suggestion makes sense.
I had the tank replaced do to warping by the way.
Quote from: adduncan101 on September 26, 2011, 02:12:54 PM
Well not very helpfull pics but..... I have also got a HD. Never had any issue with it. This stall thing happend at least one other time I can remember. I was coming to a sign downshifting and applying the brakes apropriatly. The ECU suggestion makes sense.
i think i see a pattern here.
are you relying on engine braking to help slow down the bike? if so, stop. if not, quit downshifting until you're stopped.
Quote from: derby on September 26, 2011, 02:29:44 PM
i think i see a pattern here.
are you relying on engine braking to help slow down the bike? if so, stop. if not, quit downshifting until you're stopped.
You're saying that to stop you pull in the clutch, apply brakes, come to a halt and then click down a bunch of gears? Guess I've been doing it wrong all these years. It's fun to down shift and slow the bike with the engine, especially with clutchless down shifts.
Quote from: SA_S2R on September 26, 2011, 03:29:05 PM
You're saying that to stop you pull in the clutch, apply brakes, come to a halt and then click down a bunch of gears? Guess I've been doing it wrong all these years. It's fun to down shift and slow the bike with the engine, especially with clutchless down shifts.
no, that's not how i do it.
while it may be "fun," it's certainly not necessary and it add's complexity to situation where simplicity may resolve the issue entirely.
fwiw, even when i downshift heading for a stop, i'm pretty sure i don't shift down into first unless i've stopped.
Quote from: adduncan101 on September 26, 2011, 01:57:15 PM
I was not leaning over much and probably in second going into first when she cut out.
and even if it was a stoplight vs a stop sign, i'm pretty sure his m1100 would pull away just fine in 2nd gear should the light change before he got fully stopped.
You should downshift and be in the correct gear prior to the corner and then throttle smoothly through the corner
even up to this stop you throttle and slowly bring the bike out of the lean then hit the brakes and clutch as you come to a stop
Shouldn't be braking with the bike leaned
shouldn't be downshifting in a corner
My old VTR1000 used to stall sometimes at slow speed. I almost crashed it once or twice but then I got used to the unexpected stall. These were always parking lot, stop sign, driveway type events. Is this happening to you at speeds faster than 4 MPH?
Oh BTW the VTR had carbs and it was a sticking slide, intake pulse issue. The throttle slides would bounce up and down a bit with each cycle of the engine and once in a while one of them would stick open a bit and stall the engine at or near idle.
It was kind of neat to watch with the airbox lid off. I don't recall my 750 doing that.
Quote from: Sad Panda on September 26, 2011, 09:45:19 AM
This:
http://www.aerostich.com/bank-angle-sensor.html (http://www.aerostich.com/bank-angle-sensor.html)
- Seriously the Monsters have no such items. Dump it on it's side and it'll keep running
My monster has one on the front fender
The down shift to first was at a slow speed and was not a big issue. As with my cars, and other vehicles (all of which have been manual) I don't typically shift into first until stopped. Regardless, the fact that the everything on the bike shut off momentarely is my major concern and troubleshooting my ultimate goal. Again, thanks for everyones help. :D
Everything?
What about a bad common ground. Like at the battery.
Check your cables, it could be as simple as that.
Yep, everything. I will check the cables and other potential shorts. Good thinking.
My 1100s stalled three or four times always on downshifts. Dealer could never replicate my problem. The bike was always at temp when this happened. My thought was it was running to lean in the closed loop portion of the map. I also had a starting issue. Bike would crank and crank and just not even try to start.
I flashed my ecu and got rid of the o2 sensors and never had either problem again. Regardless of your riding stile the bike shouldn't stall when you pull in the clutch.
But it seems we overlooked his problem of every thing on the bike goes dark and shuts off. This is more than an ECU/stall problem.
Quote from: SA_S2R on September 26, 2011, 03:29:05 PM
You're saying that to stop you pull in the clutch, apply brakes, come to a halt and then click down a bunch of gears? Guess I've been doing it wrong all these years. It's fun to down shift and slow the bike with the engine, especially with clutchless down shifts.
LOL exactly. Engine braking has a practical purpose. If your bike is tuned properly it shouldn't stall on a downshift. It's all about the tune. A great many problems are solved with a proper tune.
The only trouble is, you have to solve a great may problems to achieve a proper tune!
Quote from: adduncan101 on September 27, 2011, 06:21:14 AM
Regardless, the fact that the everything on the bike shut off momentarely is my major concern and troubleshooting my ultimate goal.
EVERYTHING? Do you mean the dash went blank and then came back on with the start-up display? (I assume that display is similar on the M11 as it is on the M696).
Like does it say MONSTER 1100 or something like that when you first turn the key on, before it shows mileage or other data?
If it cycled like that, then yes it sounds like a main ground/power cable.
If it DIDN'T CYCLE (and normally does) then "everything" didn't shut off.
Quote from: Kev M on September 28, 2011, 06:38:43 AM
EVERYTHING? Do you mean the dash went blank and then came back on with the start-up display? (I assume that display is similar on the M11 as it is on the M696).
Like does it say MONSTER 1100 or something like that when you first turn the key on, before it shows mileage or other data?
If it cycled like that, then yes it sounds like a main ground/power cable.
If it DIDN'T CYCLE (and normally does) then "everything" didn't shut off.
Yes kev m. lost the dash, everything (couldn't see the head or tail lights though)
It went lifeless. On top of that, as i stated in the begining the bike is only a couple months old and has just over 3500 miles. Next thing I knew the engine fired up and the dash came back. I was for only a second but it was very noticable.
has there been any work on the bike at all? any aftermarket parts installed etc?
Well that certainly sounds like a main ground or power cable, or possibly something in the ignition switch circuit.
I've not looked at any electrical schematics on these yet, how are they wired? Is there a main relay?
main relay and fuse is under the tank on the back of the airbox.
but I would look at ground, dash/ecu connectors, etc. since it came back on right away.
Somebody probably forgot to tighten something at the dealership when they put it together. I bet if you start wiggling the main harness the the lights will go out and come back on, and relays will click on and off.
It happens..
And I would check the battery first. It probably looks just fine, but its loose...
Good stuff! Thanks guys!
Quote from: D Paoli on September 29, 2011, 04:19:16 PM
Somebody probably forgot to tighten something at the dealership when they put it together. I bet if you start wiggling the main harness the the lights will go out and come back on, and relays will click on and off.
It happens..
And I would check the battery first. It probably looks just fine, but its loose...
[thumbsup]