I'm just starting to look at plasma cutters, and came across this alternative: http://www.ecowelder.com/ (http://www.ecowelder.com/)
It does both cutting up to 3/8" as well as welding with a fill rod. From what I can see in the videos & other materials on the site, it looks like the pros are portability, versatility & economical operation compared with other methods, while on the con side welding & cutting operations seem a lot slower (in the videos) than with comparable 220 wire-feed or stick welders & plasma cutters, and the gun seems pretty bulky compared to those.
Does anyone have any hands-on experience with this tool that they care to share?
mmm... for a tool of that caliber (size, use) $2k is a lot of coin. one can pick up flux wire welders for around $100 nowadays and gas torch cutters are cheap.
Curious whether the unit (for a professional welding shop) would pay for itself over time in the reduced cost of fuel and other gasses. Interesting concept... kinda like the Brown's Gas welder.
Quote from: ducatiz on October 03, 2011, 10:43:45 AM
mmm... for a tool of that caliber (size, use) $2k is a lot of coin. one can pick up flux wire welders for around $100 nowadays and gas torch cutters are cheap.
a hundred dollar flux core mig isn't gonna weld 3/8" +
Quote from: ducpainter on October 03, 2011, 04:53:08 PM
a hundred dollar flux core mig isn't gonna weld 3/8" +
It's not, but for 200 bucks I can buy an oxy system too and I'm still 1700 under that price.
Quote from: ducatiz on October 03, 2011, 06:48:24 PM
It's not, but for 200 bucks I can buy an oxy system too and I'm still 1700 under that price.
...and then lease/buy tanks...
It all depends on your requirements.
Personally I don't use flux core. If I want to wire feed I use bare and argon/co2.
I have a stick welder if I want to chip welds.
The thing I'm wondering about is Hydrogen embrittlement, isn't that the reason you keep 7018 in a rod oven?
I scanned their website, they say a water / alcohol mix, both of which contain Hydrogen.
Quote from: sno_duc on October 04, 2011, 05:08:27 PM
The thing I'm wondering about is Hydrogen embrittlement, isn't that the reason you keep 7018 in a rod oven?
I scanned their website, they say a water / alcohol mix, both of which contain Hydrogen.
good point
Quote from: sno_duc on October 04, 2011, 05:08:27 PM
The thing I'm wondering about is Hydrogen embrittlement, isn't that the reason you keep 7018 in a rod oven?
I scanned their website, they say a water / alcohol mix, both of which contain Hydrogen.
True...
if you're doing x-ray quality work you'd worry and keep your 7018 in an oven.
If the welder you're currently using is a flux core mig then hydrogen embrittlement wasn't on your mind anyway.
How much free hydrogen is available when you combine water and alcohol and heat it to almost 15,000 degrees?
I think that other than the bulky torch it looks like a really compact/ lightweight alternative to carrying a buzzbox and a set of ox-acetylene tanks out in the field.
Quote from: ducpainter on October 04, 2011, 07:26:17 PM
How much free hydrogen is available when you combine water and alcohol and heat it to almost 15,000 degrees?
a LOT. both will be hydrolyzed almost immediately. ethyl alcohol has 6 atoms of hydrogen and that will break almost immediately in heat.
Quote from: ducatiz on October 04, 2011, 07:53:05 PM
a LOT. both will be hydrolyzed almost immediately. ethyl alcohol has 6 atoms of hydrogen and that will break almost immediately in heat.
I promise not to weld any bridges with it.
Quote from: ducpainter on October 04, 2011, 07:55:47 PM
I promise not to weld any bridges with it.
I'm sure it works very well, do you have one?
meh, acid dip it and bake it for 3-4 hours.
Quote from: ducatiz on October 04, 2011, 08:00:08 PM
I'm sure it works very well, do you have one?
meh, acid dip it and bake it for 3-4 hours.
I don't.
I do think it's a pretty neat rig.
It wouldn't be my choice for everything, but I think it would serve well for light fab work and most repair stuff.
No FHE but before I'd buy that thing I'd ask the vendor if they can put you in touch with some local customers where you could see it first hand and get an idea of how well it's been working for them in the long term.
A quick Google search didn't turn up much of anything conclusive.
Bob
At the bottom of their "Contact" page, they include an offer to "come to your office or residence to demonstrate the product in action" -- I'm guessing that just applies to the greater LA area (the US reseller appears to be based in Burbank); next time I'm in LA I might see if I can arrange to swing by & give it a try.
As I noted at the outset, I'm most interested in the cutting functions of any unit (I've done plenty of gas cutting, Z, and would rather do way less of it :) ), while the ability to weld would be a nice side benefit - I've already got a little 115 Hobart (by Miller) GMAW & a bottle of Argon mix that does 99% of the welding I need, albeit more slowly & with more duty cycle breaks than a 220 welder would need. I've got access to those (as well as a plasma cutter & nicely outfitted shop) once a week when I work out of a friend's metal studio... or whenever I'm willing to make the hour drive down to his place.
As I've researched it a bit further, I'm finding a lot of off-brand plasma cutters that retail for under $1K also include leads & internals to also do TIG and stick welding as well - like this one: http://www.amazon.com/LTPDC2000-Lotos-Plasma-weekend-special/dp/B004ZZRM5W/ref=pd_cp_hi_2 (http://www.amazon.com/LTPDC2000-Lotos-Plasma-weekend-special/dp/B004ZZRM5W/ref=pd_cp_hi_2), though it's not surprising that the various online reviews of units like these are all over the map regarding the quality/usability of them. One thread that's universal in the reviews is that they might as well have left the manuals un-translated for all the help they provide.
Would I like to have a shop outfitted with a bank of pro-quality machines, each dedicated to a different function, and have the income to feed them all the gas, electricity and consumables they can eat? Well, duh. But that's not in the cards at the moment, and might not ever be.
I found more results searching for "Multiplaz". Still, mostly people like us asking about them, rather than experienced user reviews. I gather that they cut a lot slower than a dedicated plasma torch, which, if true, might be a real vote against it for your purposes.
If you get the demonstration, I suggest bringing some of your own material along to see how it does with the stuff you'll actually be using it on. Please let us know how it turns out. I really like machines and tools, but for some reason I'm not catching fire over this thing. I suspect that the $2000 price covers about $250 for the Chinese machine and $1750 worth of marketing costs and profit. But I tend to be cynical about new products and for all I know it's a great device.
Bob