Ducati Monster Forum

I already own 4 ducatis all have steel tanks and are at least 10 years old , I wont sell them but recently i have been looking to buy a new bike or a more recent bike but have decided that it wont be a ducati, due to all the issues with the plastic tanks and ducatis inability to solve the issue with a Proper permanent fix of steel tanks .

So now i am looking at other makes such as moto guzzi, Norton , triumph and even BMW and HD  , i do fancy the new commando but the price is high and a long waiting list  and its not a 360 crank but 270 . Moto Guzzi v7 is sweet and well made but under pwered for me , the only HD i like is sportsters but I really fancy a parralel twin again .The new bonny is OK but a bit ugly compared to classic ones ah maybe i should get myself a classic bike ???/ 750 commando or 650 triumph or BSA ...hmmmm at least the tanks would be metal.....choices  choices  ouch i am getting a headache .....better go play with one of my dukes .

A lot of other brands use plastic tanks too, could always coat the tank too

i dont mind my plastic tank. i got mine warrantied.

no coating, no nothing. It hasnt expanded at all. but in my own defense, i do put a regular amount of gas through it ( i fill her up maybe once or twice a week) so the gas never sits. Even if it did sit (for about a month last winter) it didnt expand.

Also, my bike has been knocked over way more times than i have fingers to count (okay maybe its just 1 shy from that) and having a plastic tank means i never have to worry about that damn dent, which is great.

Will i get another ducati? i hate to say it, but im a ducati fan boy. My next bike will be a M1100EVO.... the only other bike i have my eyes set on is if they trick up the SV650 or the FZ-6.

Moto Guzzi V7 has a plastic fuel tank, as do a number of BMWs.  

My M696 had a plastic fuel tank as does my M1100 and neither of those have suffered any deformation (although ethanol fuel blend is not so common in my part of the world).  Interestingly, I've had discussions with ducatiz which has revealed that my '09 M1100 plastic tank is made of a different material (PEX) than the plastic tanks fitted to '09 US market M1100 (PA).

all bikes have issues.

I can deal with tank expansion, at least it doesn't keep me off the road.

The new Norton has a plastic tank too. Also, I doubt it will ever make it to the U.S..

So what material are the US bike tanks made of?

The tank itself on the new monsters doesn't get painted which would allow the use of a material that won't accept/retain paint.

The bikes with plastic tanks under skins (i.e., pretty much all new ducatis) should be ok, even if it does distort a little, I don't see it hurting anything.  Steel tanks rust and sometimes crack, so, on balance, I'll take a plastic tank over steel.  With the old ones, its manageable.  I need to get a new one for my wife's bike, but the bike is rideable with some hokey mods to move the tank back.

One thing I don't have to worry about with the buell is fuel tank expansion or rust  [cheeky]

My Australian market '09 M1100 fuel tank... XLPE (cross-linked polyethylene, aka PEX)...
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5164/5231282174_54859a792e_b.jpg)

DucNaked's US market '09 M1100 fuel tank... PA (nylon)...
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5004/5231285374_c230a82dcd_b.jpg)

What I wonder is why Ducati went to the trouble and expense to make the same fuel tank from different materials depending on the market destination??  The US tanks all have a white chalky appearance... whereas mine is semi-gloss black plastic lookin'....

probably no US approval yet to use XLPE in a road tank.  The only XLPE tanks I have seen were aftermarket off-road-use-only tanks.

regulatory approvals are $$$

Where on the tank is this info.. I'd like to check what I have..

bottom side.  all of the molded plastic tanks have it plus a date clock to show you when it was made

  The material your tank is made of looks the same as most automotive tanks I've seen.
Looks like someone cut corners somewhere to save a buck.   :(

Just checked mine.... not exactly the easiest thing to see with the fuel tank in place... I couldn't see the type of plastic used as the tank is still on the bike... but I did see the made in Italy the same as Ungs and it has the black shiny appearance...I am in the UAE but my bike is from Greece... a EU bike.
So I am assuming mine is OK?

Interesting discussion. 

WTF?  Making the same tank from two different materials is not gonna save any money...  :-\If yours is a EU bike I'm guessing it will need the e11 marking.... and therefor be - as is mine - made from PEX. 

  Yes, makingone high quality tank that will handle any fuel vs. at least two lesser tanks that will just get by.

Well as i dont want any plastic fuel tanks it looks as if my options are getting smaller so my decision comes down to a classic Norton commando or another pre 2002 ducati project or an older Guzzi.

my '69 commando has a fiberglass tank. Ethanol melted it, constantly gluing the carb bits together. Coating didn't work(must have missed a spot), ended up using ethanol free gas as a solution.

That sux to have a classic Norton tank eaten by ethanol.

So maybe I missed something - is PEX a better material than Nylon as far as ethanol is concerned?

Yes.

I believe ca-cycles tanks are made from Pex...and those are color impregnated.

Pex is not paint friendly.

The pex tanks all have outer skins.

I'm done with Ducati from here on out, though I'll likely keep my M900 and S2R.  The resolution of the plastic tank settlement told me where the Company stands as far as doing the right thing.  I've read quite a bit about Multis fueling issues (a 20k bike, BTW) so I'm wary of their newer product as it is.

Like the bikes I have, I just can't see getting into the laundry list of accessories (again) and any possible goofy manufacturing issue like the tanks.  New bikes in the stable = BMWs.

You can go up to 06 on the s4 models.  Both mine are metal [beer].

I have an S2R1000 and love its sexiness...but agree on your future solution, BMW is probably my next bike as well. 

BMW, doesn't really offer a Monster replacement though. Then again, nobody does.

My 999 has a metal tank...   





Just say'n... 8)






[bacon]

no one cares bacon junkie...no one cares.  :-*

stupid metal tanks. ;D

Cooking grease from the dumpster of a Chinese restaurant washes of of my metal tank a lot easier than a plastic tank...   :-*

;)

I brought up my bike 'cause it's for sale.   Just haven't posted it up in the for sale thread yet...




[bacon]

I noticed you said you were looking at the Bonnies. Why not have a look at the Thruxton if you like the Norton and Guzzi too?

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff62/icecreamhands/TRIUMPH-THRUXTON-2009-l.jpg?t=)

Not looking for a replacement for a Monster.  Just a real world bike that will be reliable, fun, and not need 50% of its MSRP in accessories to perform as it 'should'.  And also not require basic systems and components getting replaced (tank issue).  Though I have the Monsters, I'm done with the Ducati horse$hit.  I like riding more than I like fixing.

The F800 I saw at the local BMW dealer yesterday had a plastic tank.

JM

Not a painted plastic tank, though as far as I recall.  I think most bikes will have plastic tanks, but are covered by other body parts.

I understand the plastic tank/weight/cost concern from the manufacturers, but if the tank is the surface you see then I'm out.

Right, it wasn't painted, mostly hidden rear part of the seat.  I see what you're meaning ~

JM

I dont like the Bonnies they are Heavy and underpowered and very unbalanced looks wise

I want a MTS1200 pretty bad.  But I'm now shopping the alternatives after the latest tank debacle.  I'm wondering if a FZ1 or 1250s bandit ought to do the same for less, or come pretty darn close to it.

So it seems likely then that Ducati are producing ethanol tolerant fuel tanks made from PEX, but have been unable - or have not bothered - to clear this material for use in the US.  Meaning that US market tanks continue to be produced from less suitable (PA) nylon? 

M1100/M796/M696 doesnt have a painted plastic tank either, its just a black item hiding under dress-cladding.

Then I'd avoid BMW too.  Japan is where you need to be shopping IMO  [thumbsup]

If you get the opportunity, a number of us around here would be very interested if you could confirm the material markings on your EU market M1100 fuel tank (my betting is that it will be XLPE, but it would be nice to know for sure).

The Bandit has always been an excellent bike for the money ~

JM

I have a plastic tank, Ducati replaced it, I coated it and now moved on with life.  It was that easy.

I don't know what the homologation issues are.  It could be a number of things, including the fact that XLPE/PEX might not be an approved material here.  Tanks have to undergo several types of tests including shed and crash.  It could be any number of things and I do not have the information to say so.


^ this.

I've been involved in this issue for a very long time and the fact that Ducati was changing tanks may turn out to be the most gratuitous act a manufacturer in this situation could have done.

The tanks' deformation may not rise to the level of a "product defect" under the law and in the few cases of leaking tanks, there has never been one to flame. 

Coating the tanks seems to work.  Go over to the Multistrada board and lurk a bit -- there are multiple people there with coated tanks who have zero issues -- some >2 years on the coating.

I never thought Ducati would come out with a new tank material, I assumed they would figure out some coating that was compatible and able to be legally applied.  They didn't, but I know they looked at it.  That being said, the amount of effort and cost to coat one's own tank is worth it. 

You spent $$$ on a bike, I know.  Nothing is perfect.  You got a replacement tank, coat it and move on and be glad you don't have an Aprilia or a Bimota with a bad tank.  Those guys are being told GFY.

I sat on a 2011 Ninja 1000 and it was comfy.  I too have my heart set on an MTS 1200 (BTW, they are changing the name so I'm told).  Anyway, don't know if I can get over the looks but I'm gonna ride one to see.

 ??? Ducati completely redesigns their superbike when the one they already have only needs a better gas tank.  I wonder if the Panigale will have a nylon tank...

good question

Ung when I get a chance to pull the tank I will.... bloody hard to see anything with it in situ...till then I had another look and can confirm the last Alpha in the part number is "A" the same as yours... I noted in the pics posted prior that the US tank had a "B" .... read into that what you will.

You need a KTM SMT. It's better (IMO) and cheaper than the MTS anyway.

Correct. All the Ca-cycleworks tanks are PEX.
Personally, I love my PEX tank, the non-paintable surface isn't that big a deal and the thing can take a hell of a beating.

Am I gonna miss the 40hp deficit?  The KTM is appealing for sure.

Other ideas are to take a 09+ R1 with the cross plane crank motor, and turn it into a FZ1 type bike.  Yes...I'm that in love with the sound.

I don't miss it, as the KTM (~105hp at the wheel) is plenty fast for the street, is light, and is overall just a ton of fun. I really don't think there is a bike made that can beat the KTM on a twisty road...maybe on the slab, but who cares. The KTM handling is that good, and the power is more than adequate. A lot of horsepower on the street is frustrating to me though, since you can't really use it all without seriously breaking the law...but that's me. Anything over about 90 hp is unnecessary on the street IMO, even if it may be fun at times.

You're R1 idea sounds cool...but also like a lot of work. Projects are fun though.  [thumbsup]

Yeah, projects are cool and all....but I'm thinking it would be sweet to just go buy something and ride it for 25K + miles.  I've got 2 duc projects going right now, no need for another money pit.

Sorry for the thread jack, back to the plastic tank bash!

Its been decided by my wife what the next bike will be .......its a Harley 883 sportster for her as she is 4'11'' with short legs she needs a 25'' max seat height to replace her honda 250 rebel , I have my orders from the boss she wants mor power and torque and the HD is the only bike she can get on ,
I cant even dream of anything else until she is satisfied or my life wont be worth a dime , oh and the rebel will go to our daughter .

also this thread on a UK forum has brought a whole load of unsuspecting owners out of the hills after carefully checking thier bikes with warped tanks and it seems ducati UK are denying everything ha ha ,,,,,
__________________

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but don't think you're getting away from the swelling tank issue by going with KTM.

Just for the record, XLPE/PEX tanks are approved for use in storing gasoline in the U.S. for power equipment. 

However, vehicle manufacturers are subject to the EPA's gasoline permeation rules.  In this regard, XLPE/PEX is significantly inferior to PA6.  This could very well be the reason for the difference.

Additionally, Polyethylene tends to absorb gasoline over long enough periods of time (due to its permeability), a problem which Polyamide does not share.  In automotive applications the permeability problem is resolved with a layered fuel tank.  Ford accomplishes this with PE (specifically HDPE) on the interior and exterior, which protects middle layers of PA or ethylene-vinyl alcohol copolymer, along with adhesive layers.  As you might expect, this increases both the weight and the cost of the fuel tank.

See also:  Polymers in Automotive Fuel Containment 2005, Paper 4, pages 3-4:

http://books.google.com/books?id=aoxKyt6VYiwC&pg=PA26-IA2&lpg=PA26-IA2&dq=%2Bxlpe+%2Bpermeation&source=bl&ots=B2ivzkHRqe&sig=7QWZbGXFV6k05p43SXvXu72Dipc&hl=en#v=onepage&q=%2Bxlpe%20%2Bpermeation&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=aoxKyt6VYiwC&pg=PA26-IA2&lpg=PA26-IA2&dq=%2Bxlpe+%2Bpermeation&source=bl&ots=B2ivzkHRqe&sig=7QWZbGXFV6k05p43SXvXu72Dipc&hl=en#v=onepage&q=%2Bxlpe%20%2Bpermeation&f=false)

that link was pretty interesting, esp the parts about possible solutions like the explore CT idea.

Its also the reason you dont see any painted XLPE fuel tanks... the petroleum permeation causes any applied paint to bubble and lift in fairly short time. 

Saw a brand new 1400 miles Aprillia RSVR V4 yesterday in UK with badly warping tank its made by acerbis .......seems ducati are not alone also Triumph stopped using plastic tanks in 2008 all Tiumphs now have steel tanks.

Triumph then has made a conscious choice to protect their loyalists.

Smart move I'd say.

The choice to stay with plastic (painted ones anyway) seems like a perfect example of not knowing when to cut your losses and move on.

FWIW I test rode a brand new Thruxton the same day I bought my M800 and was sorely disappointed, it felt very bland, kinda like a '70's Japanese twin....a perfectly good bike but very little personality.  The Monster has plenty and also ride a Norton Commando and it has even more, though far less performance.  Commandos were made with steel and fiberglass tanks at various times and currently the steel tanks are worth big $$$ as the fiberglass tanks don't like ethanol at all as said earlier.

lots of brand new steel and ally Commando tanks being manufactured in UK  all types are available from fairspares

I would love to see a picture, it's my understanding the finish is rough and not that presentable? - Gene

FWIW my XR1200 is a fun bike to ride, maybe not up to my Monsters when it really gets twisty but still puts a nice smile on my face whenever I ride it. Yes it does have a plastic tank and yes there are reports of the same issues, but there are some good aftermarket solutions, and for the moment HD has been replacing them, no questions. I should point out that the XR has a cover, not quite like the new monsters but the same idea, so the cover does not really get damaged it's the fuel cell under the cover that expands. The new monster will not have any problems since there is room for expansion without affecting the panels. Anyway like I said the XR is a fun bike and since you already have some Ducs, maybe you should take a test ride. - Gene

fwiw I just got a letter in the mail that there is a class-action lawsuit forming against Ducati to address the expanding tank issue. I received the letter because I used to own a Sport Classic, AFAIK it did not address the new models of monsters but did talk about the older ones. Anyway, it's about freaking time. I know that people won't benefit from this and only the lawyers will, but at least someone is sticking it to Ducati for screwing everyone with this plastic gas tank issue.

you got a letter saying there is a lawsuit FORMING??

huh?

Can you scan and email it to me?

Are you sure this isn't the same "pending settlement" letter that everyone is getting ?

To the OP:

I have a couple suggestions for bikes you might consider:

1. The Triumph Thunderbird Storm. I demo'd one and it has the hot-rodded version of the Thunderbird parallel twin motor in a package that actually handles pretty darn well. It was a HOOT to ride.

2. Victory Vegas 8-ball. Rode one a couple weeks ago and I was laughing the whole time. That 106 ci Freedom v-twin engine puts out 90hp/110ft-lbs peak and pulls like a freight train. It flat FLIES for a cruiser.

Cheers

I don't know, it might be. But when you visit the website it states that a settlement has been reached:

http://www.girardgibbs.com/Ducati.asp?gclid=CPLD6J-Nl6UCFQUmbAodbnEMPw (http://www.girardgibbs.com/Ducati.asp?gclid=CPLD6J-Nl6UCFQUmbAodbnEMPw)

it might be?  have you read the letter you got? 

if the letter came from Girard Gibbs, that is not a "we are forming" letter, that is a notice of proposed settlement.

Must be comfy under that rock...

(http://gadgetgirlshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Geico-Under-a-Rock-Guy.png)