Went for an early morning ride (Mulholland Hwy-Malibu-Kanan area) today. I've had the bike about a month and starting to get a good comfort level with it. On a particularly twisty section I was trying to focus real hard, only going about 15-20mph when I had an "oh shit!" moment and realized I went into a corner too fast. Even though I am aware to never hit the front brake hard mid turn I had to in this case & of course the bike stood right up and I crossed the yellow line by about 6 feet (thankfully there was no oncoming traffic).
Being a noob, can anyone share some tips to help me figure out how to know how far I can lean the bike over in an apex without lowsiding??
Btw, this reaffirmed my decision that the 250 was the way to go for my first bike. Can't wait to get my Monster but trying to be patient and learn to do this stuff the right way. ;D
37.8 degrees of lean.
Actually it depends on the camber of the road, your speed, and largely your experience. I've heard good things about the MSF courses where you ride your own bike and work on higher-speed turns, body-positioning, braking and other skills. From that you will get more comfortable for the feel of what you ride in situations like you described. I wish I had time to take the course...but I can live vicariously through those who do.
To the OP, good decision on the 250 starter bike. Mature thinking on your part. Too many have failed thinking "I'll get a GSXR1000 for my first bike, I can handle it". Also too bad many don't start out on dirt bikes like I did as a kid. Millions of bike handling lessons learned in the dirt before I ever turned a wheel on pavement. Raced MX for years before the street. Probably wouldn't be alive today if not for those "dirty" years. Still, starting slow and steady (with a small bike [thumbsup]) and a MSF class or two can't be a bad thing! [beer] [popcorn]
You obviously have good judgement and are a patient person by picking the starter bike. Just be sure you follow through and wear all your gear as well.
Time for a trackday...
FAR better environment to test bike, work on skills and find out just what she can do..
Quote from: Timebomb7585 on October 08, 2011, 10:45:41 AM
Being a noob, can anyone share some tips to help me figure out how to know how far I can lean the bike over in an apex without lowsiding??
Farther than you think. Much farther. (further? No, farther, I think). Truth is, there's no good way to answer the question. Too many factors. But if you're a noob, I can pretty much guarantee that you can crank the bike over much farther than you are/were.
If you go in too fast on a right hander (left handers are a bit different), try to pre-program your mind to attempt to lean more. Remember to push the bar forward, not down to lean. Generally, it's better to lean more than cross the DY. BTW, check out this post re right-handers:
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=11778.msg201230;topicseen#msg201230 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=11778.msg201230;topicseen#msg201230)
+1 on much farther than you think. On good dry pavement, with decent street tires, somewhere around when your pegs start grinding, but YMMV ;D
Also, understand that you will scare the shit out of yourself the first time you really lean into a corner, and be absolutely sure you're going to lowside, until you come out the other side upright and unhurt.
Quote from: Spidey on October 08, 2011, 05:06:41 PM
If you go in too fast on a right hander (left handers are a bit different), try to pre-program your mind to attempt to lean more. Remember to push the bar forward, not down to lean. Generally, it's better to lean more than cross the DY. BTW, check out this post re right-handers:
Yep, it was a right hander, really tight one. Thanks for the tips and positivity. I always ride with gear, also have put 2 new Pirellis and front brakes on the bike and had everything checked out just to be safe. Did the MSF course a while ago but they don't teach you much about leaning through the curves. I think it might be time for a track day! [thumbsup]
Track /skills class.... not a track day.
Yes, a track day will allow you to get a 'feel' for how much lean you and your bike can do.
Also, as you experienced, you can feather the brake when leaned over and the bike will stand up. If you know that's going to occur, you can counteract it, hold the bike down and keep your line from blowing wide. That takes some experience.
Glad you made it through the brown-shorts moment, and I'm also glad you have the self-awareness to know you need some instruction. Good luck and stay safe.
Quote from: xcaptainxbloodx on October 08, 2011, 10:31:17 PM
same thing.
not even close.
A track day where you get a quick 15 min briefing on track rules.... limited supervision.... and guys who treat every session as a race.... is not the same as taking a class that has hands on instructors... classroom instruction in between sessions, and stricter track rules.
Take a "lets ride" track day.... and the one of from "Classrides" and tell me who teaches...and who lets the monkey cage door open.
^
+1000
That's why I dont do track days any longer. I felt that I was getting stuffed up the inside in some tight corners and I ended up not having fun when I was on the tarmac. Hearing the description of the 'teaching' aspect of an instructional day at the track perks up my ears.
(BTW, I know all too well what you mean about letting the monkeys out of the cage)
MSF....
Quote from: OT on October 10, 2011, 12:28:40 PM
MSF....
Done last year.
Another member turned me on to "skillzdays" here in the LA area. Thinking that is the way to go.
try the lee parks total control classes... they're done in a parking lot, but they do teach you a lot.
if not that, then try this:
http://www.superbikeschool.com/ (http://www.superbikeschool.com/)
thread title had me thinking of something completely different
Normally I dont chime in on these kinds of questions because theres sooooo much room for debate, opinion and misinterpretation. However, my personal experience tells me this one can be answered in a non controversial way.
1. Go out to your bike right now.
2. take a look at your rear tire.
3. How much unused rear tire do you see on left and right side? (more than an inch i assume)
4. Take a deep breath and say to yourself "I am no where near the lean angle this bike is capable of".
In short, i think most people will agree with this one. If you still have ANY chicken strips showing.. you can lean over waaaaaaaay more than you currently are.
Quote from: polivo on October 14, 2011, 07:59:05 PM
Normally I dont chime in on these kinds of questions because theres sooooo much room for debate, opinion and misinterpretation. However, my personal experience tells me this one can be answered in a non controversial way.
1. Go out to your bike right now.
2. take a look at your rear tire.
3. How much unused rear tire do you see on left and right side? (more than an inch i assume)
4. Take a deep breath and say to yourself "I am no where near the lean angle this bike is capable of".
In short, i think most people will agree with this one. If you still have ANY chicken strips showing.. you can lean over waaaaaaaay more than you currently are.
LOL, yep you are right. There is 1"+ showing on the rear tire. (The rear tire looks so skinny to me, maybe that's what's stopping me from leaning more).
If you are wearing riding boots and have the metal toes, you'll see them scrape before you hit the pegs. you'll still see may be a quarter inch of unused tire on the 696 even after you scrape pegs. The stock pegs fold up a bit, but that is where you stop.
And trust me, when those boots scrape the first time, brown-pants will occur :P
Also remember to look through the corner, and get your weight of the bars. Steering inputs (and subsequently greater lean angles) are a lot easier when you look through the corner and don't target fixate on where you don't want to go. It's amazing how easily a bike turns when you quit fighting it with bad technique.
+whatever we're up to on a track school.
i have the same problem sort of.
on the street im a big wuss. u will not see me get anywhere near what the bike can do.
on the track i dont care. ill drag my knee and the rearsets all day and not think twice as i progress.
the problem is how much balls you go on the street. experience makes you less of a wuss. just keep riding and take it one step at a time, a beginners track day will give u a lot of insight on what u can do with your bike. depends on the organization that teaches u.
they are PURELY track oriented, how to be faster, proper body etc. nothing about safe riding for the streets.
Glad it goes into the books as a miss. Chalk it up as a learning point.
Am i wrong in thinking that doing stuff like that has nothing to do with being a "newb" I have been riding since I was 6 and did almost the same thing last ride. Entered with tight left with a thousand things in my head and none of them the bike right at the moment. Saved it from doom in the grass. stopped and cleared my head and road home. I guess that is why I wear gear.
We have practice days at our race course where experienced riders make it a point to help new riders to learn how to navigate corners by teaching them entry speed, braking points and proper lines. This creates a teaching/learning environment without the competitive race day or track day pressure. This is how I learned what my bike can do or what I can do with my bike without getting hurt. Don't forget that there is only two kind riders...the ones that have crashed and the ones that will....well if you ride your bike hard enough ;D
I wouldn't worry much about how further you can lean the bike, worry about how smoothly you can take that corner , and it all depends on how far or how close you are getting in the corner. [thumbsup]
I agree with duc. Lean angle is nothing without technique. The lean angle should come as a result of entry speed, intended apex and exit.. It should nt be the first goal going in.