Hi all,
I installed my new slipon Termi pipes & high flow air filter a couple weeks back and they sound awesome; a deep loud thunderous roar!
Unfortunately though, I have decided that they are just way TOO LOUD for me, my neighbourhood, random car alarms, little old ladies and baby kittems. In fact, they are much louder than my old 620's CF Termi pipes, I don't know if it's due to the slightly bigger engine or the fact that they're full metal vs carbon fibre pipes.
A bit of recon around the forums and I have found other people who have the same concern as me, example below-
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/77-sport-classic/41125-termignoni-baffle-mod-2-2-slip-ons.html (http://www.ducati.ms/forums/77-sport-classic/41125-termignoni-baffle-mod-2-2-slip-ons.html)
So for now, I have put my baffler's back in and the sound is like the stock pipes :(
I am planning to do this mod as suggested by LeeC from Ducati.MS to get 70% sound.
My questions are-
1. Does anyone else actually run with bafflers in on custom pipes?
2. Has anyone done similar mod to bafflers?
3. Will I need to get engine re-tuned after this type of mod?
(Drawing credits to Lee.C@ducati.ms)
(http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af167/rodcarvallo/bafflemod.png)
(http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af167/rodcarvallo/796tooloud.jpg)
Betty has baffles in for that same reason and his sound like tweettie birds, just the way he likes it.
Rod before you attack the baffle with an angle grinder , buy a quality steel drill bit and whack in some more holes.
Just keep adding holes until you get the degree of LOUD you want .
If you cut the baffle's off straight away you cant go back ! and it may be too loud again.
My two cents worth.
thanks for the advice, I will give that a go first
Rod, I can't see your piccies from where I am so just comments for now.
The only time my pipes have not had baffles was in the workshop when the exhausts were installed. I heard the bike without the baffles but I was still wiping the blood away from my ear lobes* when the baffles went in ... and I like the sound of my tweety-bird baffles (but I'm weird) ... and they have been in ever since. But I don't know how my baffles compare to others.
So yes, there are people with baffles and I can understand the 'too loud' call ... like a certain yellow 620 which can cause heart arrhythmia if you are in the blast zone or early onset DVT if your calves are positioned wrongly when sitting on the bike.
With regard to the tune I think that the simple answer would be ... it wouldn't hurt. But in my opinion (and I have no knowledge to back this up) I can't imagine it would make a significant difference whether the baffles are in, out or modified.
* This is an exaggeration ... I remember thinking 'faaark that's loud' ... but the guys in the shop stood back and said 'hmm, it's not as loud as I thought it would be'.
From my research, before I cut my baffles on the stock pipes, there is no need for a retune unless you go the open airbox route. (which you've gotta do if you want to make it sound like a real Duc) [Dolph]
Hey Jukie!! I think Betty is taking the Piss!!?? [cheeky] [clap] [roll]
Thread jack, yes Dragon, Betty always take the piss out of me [roll]
I'd certainly agree with Dez on the mod. Do some drill work first to find a desired result and see how you go.
The loud effect might also have something to do with the fact that the pipes are closer to your ears, shorter than the previous Termi's of the 620 and look like they have a bigger bore.
These factors might be contributing to the "loud" effect and yes it could have something to do with the engine.
I know when my old pipes went on Nick's bike they did sound different than on the 620.
Though riding behind them I still hear them over the top of my bike! They are LOUD too!
Quote from: Two dogs on October 17, 2011, 10:14:43 PM
Rod before you attack the baffle with an angle grinder , buy a quality steel drill bit and whack in some more holes.
Just keep adding holes until you get the degree of LOUD you want .
If you cut the baffle's off straight away you cant go back ! and it may be too loud again.
My two cents worth.
+2 on the drilling.
Quote from: dragonworld on October 18, 2011, 12:35:23 AM
Hey Jukie!! I think Betty is taking the Piss!!?? [cheeky] [clap] [roll]
Subtle but truthful is the way I would have described it :D ;D
Quote from: rod796 on October 17, 2011, 09:23:51 PM
(http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af167/rodcarvallo/bafflemod.png)
Now that I can see the piccies ... the length of the modified baffle seems closer to mine than the unmodified. Can't really comment on the design though or know for sure (I'm old and its been a long time). My baffles have been in so long I don't think I could get them out even if I wanted to.
But I wouldn't say my pipes are exactly quiet either ... so the drilling option may be your preferred starting point.
Quote from: mattyvas on October 18, 2011, 01:54:14 AM
The loud effect might also have something to do with the fact that the pipes are closer to your ears, shorter than the previous Termi's of the 620 and look like they have a bigger bore.
These factors might be contributing to the "loud" effect and yes it could have something to do with the engine.
I have also heard (or read) quite often that the standard pipes on the 'new-gen' monsters don't sound too bad / are not so quiet ... so your starting point may have already been a bit different.
Can you get baffles as a separate item? Modifying your only baffles might get tricky if you ever need your bike to sound like it does from standard (RWC, dept transport, fun police etc) and keep the termis on the bike.
Personally, I'd try cutting just the blocked end off and keeping the long length of tubing and going from there.
I agree you can tune your sound easier drilling holes but I find it is harder to weld up a lot of holes rather than weld a bit of tube back on. Just a thought.
PS. 1 vote for no baffles, not my bike I know but just my 2 cents.......
My 2010 M1100 with Termi's slips (no pipe kit) with baffles is waayyy loud, comparable to my bro's Gixer1000 with shorty Jardine racing pipes. My wife says she can hear me about a 1KM away and knows when to put the kettle on :D
I like a loud bike and and my house vibrates when the bike warms up in the remote garage and so haven't even considered taking out the baffles as a result. I don't quite understand how peeps can compare the Termi's + baffles to the stock cans which were very mild IMHO.
I have a decibel meter on my iPhone, its not accurate but can be used for comparison. Over this weekend I'll try and measure the reading with and without baffles to gauge the percent increase and post results.
You need to lose those chicken stripes to mate ;D
I like the sound my stock exhaust makes.
Just sayin'
I'd modify or replace the cans to reduce weight or otherwise improve performance, but wouldn't want it any louder.
Have always loved my DP (Remus, not Termi) carbon cans. They were part of the reason that I bought the bike but I do pity the neighbours when I depart for work at 5.45am. [Dolph]
Isn't that the way termi are meant to be? LOUD! I think my Termis came with a warning - NOT INTENDED FOR ROAD USE, but meh, loud pipes save lives I say. I would say that mine would probably just be over the legal decibel limit. Friends say they hear my bike over any other from at least 1.5km away. My cure? I would put back on the ugly udder under the S2R. Does yours have a cat you can stuff?
Quote from: Mr.S2R on October 19, 2011, 03:18:21 AM
Isn't that the way termi are meant to be? LOUD! I think my Termis came with a warning - NOT INTENDED FOR ROAD USE, but meh, loud pipes save lives I say. I would say that mine would probably just be over the legal decibel limit. Friends say they hear my bike over any other from at least 1.5km away. My cure? I would put back on the ugly udder under the S2R. Does yours have a cat you can stuff?
A big +1 from me, but as Matty suggests, my bike is on the border between loud and obnoxiously loud.
On the weekend , Matty and I did a very early mornining rnp run, and we stopped at bald hill and got into a short convo with an older fellow rider. As we went to leave, he noted us putting in ear plugs, and asked whether they were needed....
I just continued to put my helmet on, smiled at him, and said "why don't you makeup your own mind whether we need them".... Swung a leg over and fired her up. No further explanation was needed ;)
Quote from: rod796 on October 17, 2011, 09:23:51 PM
Hi all,
I installed my new slipon Termi pipes & high flow air filter a couple weeks back and they sound awesome; a deep loud thunderous roar!
Unfortunately though, I have decided that they are just way TOO LOUD for me, my neighbourhood, random car alarms, little old ladies and baby kittens. In fact, they are much louder than my old 620's CF Termi pipes, I don't know if it's due to the slightly bigger engine or the fact that they're full metal vs carbon fibre pipes.
Hey Rod
1, Now you know why most of us wear ear plugs [roll]
2, In your Hood don't rev the shit out out of it till your out of ear shot ;)
3,Old ladies are deaf any way :D
4,Kittens will grow up :'(
5, (Too loud for me) HTFU >:(
6. (random car alarms) Random only [thumbsup]
7 Or move from the Hood :D
[thumbsup] [laugh] ;D ;) :)
I am, at times, partially fond of setting off the odd car alarm..
I wonder how many were set off by you guys whe you parked in the opera house car park to see the Tt movie.. Bigiain and I have many times discussed the merit of this type of hooliganism on the fine arts!
Quote from: goldFiSh on October 19, 2011, 03:57:42 AM
I am, at times, partially fond of setting off the odd car alarm..
hehe +1 on that! I love rumbling along hearing the odd alarm go off, or pull up next to the Porsche/Mercedes/BMW with the window down, that suddenly goes up... [Dolph]
Well I had a bit of a shock when I went out to measure the decibel difference between my Termi's with and without the baffles. It seems that Fraser's never installed the baffles on my slip-ons and I've been riding without them for over a year now. ??? I never thought to check, I just assumed they were installed but on closer inspection the screw hole was empty and with the help of a torch I could see there was no baffle in the tube. No wonder I thought that with the baffles the bike was loud enough [roll]
So, I found the baffles in the box with the old cans and installed them for giggles and yep, much too quiet for me. After measuring the noise level I whipped them out again. I've attached a photo of them because mine don't look like the ones below, mine aren't plugged at all.
For what its worth, the noise reading, with and without baffles, is about a 25-30% difference. Quite a bit. I'm not sure how accurate my meter was but the decibel reading without baffles was about 104-107dB and 75-80dB with. Of course this was at idle and will be much louder under throttle. Do I care, not one jot. [evil]
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr158/sundogatoz/baffle2.jpg) (http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr158/sundogatoz/baffle1.jpg)
I keep the noise low in my own street , after that its free for all [thumbsup]
earplugs i only wear for wind noise protection , if riding local below 100k then i dont bother
for day trips then earplugs are essential for the wind noise and they also reduce fatigue
car alarms brings a smile to the face [laugh]
tunnels , overpass's , car parks are all great stuff ;D
I wonder who's these loud pipes are then??
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6050/6268297137_95dd6c56e7_z.jpg)
MMMM...... Very noice!!
Mmick
Thanks Mick
That photo highlighted a small patch of soot I missed with my pipe cleaner, all fixed up now [beer]
Quote from: rod796 on October 17, 2011, 09:23:51 PM
So for now, I have put my baffler's back in and the sound is like the stock pipes :(
BAFFLERS................ ? B...B.....BBBBBBAFFLERS.........?
Let me double check my dictionary before making a smart ars comment here "Woddy" ;D
Yes Teff Bafflers
Surely a man of your experience knows what Bafflers are. If you don't I will explain.
BAFFLERS; The art of being able to dampen a loud noise while at the same time confuse a bloke who would normally make a smart arse comment.
Bafflers!
Mmick
Quote from: luke1100evo on October 22, 2011, 04:31:04 AM
Thanks Mick
That photo highlighted a small patch of soot I missed with my pipe cleaner, all fixed up now [beer]
Ah! Yes, yes, I see what you mean, mmmm.... nice and clean - take note Teff [thumbsup]
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6167/6272082480_8486258c51_z.jpg)
Mmick
Quote from: Sundog on October 21, 2011, 07:38:54 PM
For what its worth, the noise reading, with and without baffles, is about a 25-30% difference. Quite a bit. I'm not sure how accurate my meter was but the decibel reading without baffles was about 104-107dB and 75-80dB with. Of course this was at idle and will be much louder under throttle.
Hey Sundog, thanks for the awesome recon on the bafflers and measurements. I will probibly take Rowdys advice and chop off the ends to start with.
Insert nerd here...if I recall my maths@uni dB is a factor of 10 log multiplier per bel or something like that. Meaning that a 25dB change in measurement would actually be a 300x increasde in sound power.
The accuracy of the numbers will largely depend on accuracy of the measuring distance more than anything. Inverse square law applies here.
I'd be surprised with that differential, but there's more than a few factors at play here.
For the audio nerds.... Monstersonics.bogspot.com scroll way down and you'll see some comparisons of stock and aftermarket pipes on a roughly calibrated setup.
Totally agree, the numbers mean very little in my test, it was the differential that was the point, that if you can imagine a 30% increase from baffled you don't have to burn bridges cutting stuff up to find out that it's goddam loud. ;D
With a break in the wet weather on the weekend, I finally got around to doing the chop-chop on my bafflers and here are the piccies of my handywork.
In summary, and in my opinion it was only a slight increase in overall sound, less tinny and slightly bass'ier at rev's.
Next I think I might try a couple holes in the surrounding ring as per initial diagrams.
I cut at the 7.5 cm mark with a pipe cutter which I figured would be close enought to the 3" mark.
(http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af167/rodcarvallo/cut1.jpg)
(http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af167/rodcarvallo/cut2.jpg)
(http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af167/rodcarvallo/cut3.jpg)
(http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af167/rodcarvallo/cut4.jpg)
Before anyone comments, I know the nut is not alligned in the picture!
Having had a look at your pictures pre and post surgery, I'm still perplexed (dare I say baffled [roll]) about why my Termi inserts did not come with the perforated ends that you have. Mine, as stock, look identical to yours after you cut them.
I can only imagine that later termi kits come with the baffles like yours/mine as standard. Has anyone else who has recently bought the Termi kit for an 1100 able to verify if your baffles are like mine (see way below) or closed like rod796's pre-cutting?
Quote from: Sundog on November 27, 2011, 08:11:58 PM
Having had a look at your pictures pre and post surgery, I'm still perplexed (dare I say baffled [roll]) about why my Termi inserts did not come with the perforated ends that you have. Mine, as stock, look identical to yours after you cut them.
I can only imagine that later termi kits come with the baffles like yours/mine as standard. Has anyone else who has recently bought the Termi kit for an 1100 able to verify if your baffles are like mine (see way below) or closed like rod796's pre-cutting?
I have an 1100 evo and the Termis were installed 2 month ago. Mine also do not have the perforated section, and in appearance are similar to the post cut pictures (as posted by rod796).
I prefer my inserts out but I put them in for a ride through the RNP yesterday. The reason is that without inserts the engine is running lean with lots of back fire and popping when decelerating. By putting the inserts in it seemed to alleviate the lean condition.
This is a PIA as I got the termi system that includes the ECU but will still end up with having to look at after market options to get added performance and that unbaffled sound.
Quote from: luke1100evo on November 27, 2011, 08:39:00 PM
I have an 1100 evo and the Termis were installed 2 month ago. Mine also do not have the perforated section, and in appearance are similar to the post cut pictures (as posted by rod796).
Ah ha! That explains it, Termi saw the light and saved some after-market butchery
Quote from: luke1100evo on November 27, 2011, 08:39:00 PM
I prefer my inserts out but I put them in for a ride through the RNP yesterday. The reason is that without inserts the engine is running lean with lots of back fire and popping when decelerating. By putting the inserts in it seemed to alleviate the lean condition.
I assume the 'running lean' you mention is the popping in the exhaust that you can now hear but the stocks probably deadened (plus the lower back pressure making it more frequent). It's something I've had on all my bikes I've ridden with sports exhausts to varying degrees, although the Gixer1k with the Jardine GP-1's was kind of ridiculous. I regard it as a part of the whole light-weight, less noise-deadening effects of the Termi's.
I kinda like it anyway but then I'm a menace to society [evil], but to each his/her own :)
Quote from: Sundog on November 27, 2011, 09:29:57 PM
Ah ha! That explains it, Termi saw the light and saved some after-market butchery
I assume the 'running lean' you mention is the popping in the exhaust that you can now hear but the stocks probably deadened (plus the lower back pressure making it more frequent). It's something I've had on all my bikes I've ridden with sports exhausts to varying degrees, although the Gixer1k with the Jardine GP-1's was kind of ridiculous. I regard it as a part of the whole light-weight, less noise-deadening effects of the Termi's.
I kinda like it anyway but then I'm a menace to society [evil], but to each his/her own :)
I must admit I also enjoy the hoon perspective attached to loud unrestricted pipes ;D. Now that I tried the bafflers I think i will keep them out. [evil]
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7143/6416495565_25d9e86804.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ptkahl/6416495565/)
DSCN4000 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ptkahl/6416495565/#)
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6059/6416496579_d465a07b17.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ptkahl/6416496579/)
DSCN4001 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ptkahl/6416496579/#)
This is what the baffles look like from my Termi's (and the Tremi's without them in).
Dunno how the pipes sound with the baffles in though??? They sound too good as they are and my neighbours are used to the noise.
Also let's my wife know when to open the garage door and put the kettle on.
Quote from: Rowdy on November 28, 2011, 12:50:24 PM
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6059/6416496579_d465a07b17.jpg)
That explains your name then, eh Rowdy [thumbsup]
Quote from: Rowdy on November 28, 2011, 12:50:24 PM
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7143/6416495565_25d9e86804.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ptkahl/6416495565/)
DSCN4000 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ptkahl/6416495565/#)
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6059/6416496579_d465a07b17.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ptkahl/6416496579/)
DSCN4001 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ptkahl/6416496579/#)
This is what the baffles look like from my Termi's (and the Tremi's without them in).
Dunno how the pipes sound with the baffles in though??? They sound too good as they are and my neighbours are used to the noise.
Also let's my wife know when to open the garage door and put the kettle on.
AAh!! A variation on the "Automatic Garage Opener" Theme?? [evil] :o [thumbsup]
Yeah, works well.
BTW I've ordered the carbon/titanium Akrapovic muffler from their evolution exhaust system to replace the twin Termi's. It is not the slip-on, but the muffler only from their S4RS full system. I couldn't get a full system that I liked so I am making it from bits and pieces.
Once I get the new muffler, bracket, a custom two-into-one joining piece and all the other bits I'll be selling the twin Termi's (will post advert in proper place then). Expected early next year.
Sorry for the thread jack.
Great looking Termis [thumbsup] [thumbsup]. How close is the lower pipe to the rear tire?, maybe the camera creating an optical illusion but they appear to be close.
Quote from: Rowdy on November 28, 2011, 12:50:24 PM
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7143/6416495565_25d9e86804.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ptkahl/6416495565/)
DSCN4000 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ptkahl/6416495565/#)
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6059/6416496579_d465a07b17.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ptkahl/6416496579/)
DSCN4001 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ptkahl/6416496579/#)
This is what the baffles look like from my Termi's (and the Tremi's without them in).
Dunno how the pipes sound with the baffles in though??? They sound too good as they are and my neighbours are used to the noise.
Also let's my wife know when to open the garage door and put the kettle on.
About ten millimeters.
FWIW, I finally found the perfect loudness and tone for my Leo Vince system by cutting the tube completely off the DB killer then installing it between the muffler and midpipe.
Loud, but not too loud, with lots of bass. If you stand next to the end of the muffler you can feel the concussion (like being close to a sub-woofer).
Me likey! [thumbsup]
That sounds pretty neat.
Have you got any pics?
There seems to be a fine balance between adding restrictions in the exhaust system to decrease the sound level and freeing up the system with cat-eliminators etc to get more power, better fuel economy (more noise) etc. I know we don't ALL want to ride open exhaust noise machines, but a well tuned bike with the correct size full system and appropriate mufflers doesn't have to blow everybodies ear drums out.
Quote from: Rowdy on December 01, 2011, 12:33:51 PM
That sounds pretty neat.
Have you got any pics?
There seems to be a fine balance between adding restrictions in the exhaust system to decrease the sound level and freeing up the system with cat-eliminators etc to get more power, better fuel economy (more noise) etc. I know we don't ALL want to ride open exhaust noise machines, but a well tuned bike with the correct size full system and appropriate mufflers doesn't have to blow everybodies ear drums out.
I agree. I put a Marving header (eliminated the cat) on my S2r1000 and it made a tremendous difference in tone and loudness. My bike had the Leo Vince on it when I bought it but, I'd bet I would have been real happy with the sound of just the Marving and the stock mufflers.
I think I read it here but a guy just replaced the mufflers and link pipes off his udder with a couple of slash cut stainless tubes about six-eight inches long and ran it like that without any problems and with a cool note.
Just have to make sure the tips are lower than the front cylinder head so it doesn't fill the motor with rain.
I'm sure the Leo Vince slip-ons look pretty sweet though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR7IIqqqzYg&feature=g-upl (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR7IIqqqzYg&feature=g-upl)
Thought this might be of some assistance. Hope it's the right place to post (we are talking about Termi's without baffles yeah?).
Best viewed on a computer with a decent set of speakers attached.
Very noice sound coming from your 115 hp beast [evil] [evil] , you must be proud [thumbsup]
Quote from: Rowdy on December 06, 2011, 04:00:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR7IIqqqzYg&feature=g-upl (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR7IIqqqzYg&feature=g-upl)
Thought this might be of some assistance. Hope it's the right place to post (we are talking about Termi's without baffles yeah?).
Best viewed on a computer with a decent set of speakers attached.
Best thing is it runs so sweetly now.
Gotta recommend getting a programable engine management system and custom mapping done.