Ducati Monster Forum

I looked aound and could only find a few tid bits, like Raux's thread of getting his kids into motocross. After realizing that buying a road bike in Chile is make the beast with two backsing expensive, even the used ones, I've decided to give off road a try. Gear and stuff should be easy, go to your nearest shop and buy.

Now what should I look for in a used dirt bike? Any brand that holds up better than others? What should I change in my riding technique? Notice that I won't be flying off ramps. It will be mostly trail riding. Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

1st...in terms of bikes, think about what speeds you need?...if you don't need to exceed 70 for extended periods of time, then something 400cc's or under will suit you fine( most thinking in terms of weight, but also power)...also think about parts availability...generally speaking, the Japanese singles are most prevelant in terms of all things available out there and they are of the more modifyable in terms of all manner of DS aftermarket bolt on bits...

2nd...gear...same general guidelines with dirt gear as road gear in terms of armor and protection, although mobility, and weather and elements in a more primal nature are going to be a bigger key...

3rd...in terms of riding...the most general thing I can say, that will have to be felt and learned, is body nuetrality so that when the bike gets squirrelly under you, you let the bike do so and it recover itself before your inputs change the course of what is happening unless you specifically dictate it to do so...you will more than likely have to change your body positioning type from what you are currently comfortable with and some of your habits ( like leaning to the inside of the machine in a turn for example)

I am sure many will expound further and I am just starting off with initial basics...

Body position and traction are going to be the biggest changes. Instead of leaning towards the inside of a turn or getting off the bike you'll be keeping your weight over the contact patch and pushing the bike down into the turn. As Aaron from Corner-Spin describes it, your arms will be like you're shoveling. Inside arm down and straitened  out, outside arm bent, elbow up. Keeping your weight neutral and over that contact patch is something that will require work.

Obviously traction will be a lot different, spinning the rear is very common and quite fun once you get past the initial pucker factor that it induces.

As far as bikes - are things like the DZ series a viable option?

Haven't ridden dirt bikes in years and I miss it. I grew up on dirt bikes in the 60s. Started racing MX in the really early days and my folks had a nearby farm that I had a practice track on. Nothing like today's tracks, no doubles and triples... more like TT tracks back then. Learned a million bike handling lessons and skills that still serve me well on the road to this day. Great way to start off riding scooters. MSF courses are all well and good but nothing could replace spending a few years on the dirt before ever turning a wheel on the tarmac.

Anyway, good luck with the dirt bike adventure! [thumbsup] My physical issues will never let me enjoy trail riding (or MTN biking) again and I will forever be sorry for that. Glad I got to do what I did when I could. [Dolph]

Thanks for the responses guys! Keep them coming! I was looking at some Honda in the 250 range. They are still expensive, even used, but not as bad as a road bike. I don't see myself getting too adventuresome with this one. There are some dirt trails really close to my house. I would probably start there and work my way up to more technical stuff as I get better. Basically using the same mentality that I used on the road bike, started riding to work only, then progressed to mountain twisties, to trackdays.

Haven't read the responses so I don't know if it's been said but best to go from off-road first and then to road..IMO.     

So, you're looking at a 250?  YOU could even go with something smaller if all you're going to do is trail riding and exploring.  You can stilll have a lot of fun on a 200 or 125.   I'd probably get the biggest bike I could find though too. 

I started on a Suzuki DR350 Dual-sport up in Flagstaff.  Dropped it many times.  Get ready..you'll drop it too.  Good thing though..these bikes can take a beating.  Important to watch out for the ruts in the dry mud!!  I got caught up in those a few times.  When they narrow and come to an end with you caught in them..there isn't anywhere to go but down!!  ;)

Check out the equipment DantheMan has when he rides.  It's full body armor.  A wise investment!

Have fun riding down there!!  Riding off-road will definitely make you a better road rider for when you get back up to the States.

I went from a lifetime of road riding to a Suzuki DR650 for dirt road riding (its not really an off road machine).  I'm having to cope with that fact that whilst I'm pretty competent on the bitumen.... there's much learning to be done on the loose stuff.  Its fun though, but as IZ said I think its probably easier to go from dirt to road than the other way around.  I think it would be helpful to spend some time riding with others who're already good at the dirt and can give some constructive critique on my/your riding "technique". 

I'll get there though.... and if I can, so can anybody  ;). 

Just get on with it, you'll be fine  [thumbsup].

another good question... braking?

I know on the street many of you don't even touch the rear brake. I use it alot, maybe something I remember from the dirt days?

Yup, I've discovered the value of my DR's rear brake (hardly ever touch it on my Monster 'cept when coming to a stop at traffic lights etc).

touching my front brake is a definite no-no offroad, 4 piston caliper plus big rotor in the dirt means I'd fall down before I knew what happened  [laugh]

Riding in the dirt is a great way to unleash yourself when you can't on the road.

you use the rear more for sure, but you still use the front too, but you have to learn to modulate and feel, especially if the surface isn't packed...you'll be much more effective in this department once you get comfortable with the feeling of traction loss/sliding which is possible to somewhat feel/control before dumping/crashing...playing with this traction learning is much more effective on a smaller displacement like any 4 stroke 100cc to 150cc ( ie:XR100, DR-Z125L, TT-R125L, CRF150F, etc.)because the consequences in the learning process are greatly reduced....and the bike isn't generally going to be fast enough to do anything to it when you crash and is ultimately light enough that you won't tire due to picking it up over and over and over again while doing so...maybe in addition to the CRF250 you are probably looking at, look for an old beater XR100 in addition as a learning tool to play with and ride the 250 a lil more conservatively till you get some skills down from pushing your limits on the smaller beater bike...this is all kinda like starting out on the road on a Ninja 250 to build your skillset and progressing to your bigger bike in a way...

A light bike is your friend off road, more so than HP.  Additionally, low end torque will get you out of more trouble than it will get you into so a thumper is somewhat better for recreational riding.  Unless you are a really good off road rider, top end power is not really an advantage.  Since you won't necessarily need lots of top speed you can change sprockets for more power to the ground at low speeds.  I tend to ride the front wheel (weight forward) on hard surfaces but in soft sand you have to shift your weight over the rear wheel and keep the front as light as possible.  It might sound funny but giving a burst of throttle will save you in a LOT of situations (you will learn that with time).  Keeping your weight on the pegs is a real advantage also.  Not only does it shift the weight down lower but it also will let the bike move around better below you keeping the tires more planted.

If you can find one, a dual purpose can be good because you can still use it around town.  But remember, blinkers and mirrors really like to smack trees and the ground every chance they get.  That can get expensive replacing them.  For me here in Texas, blinkers are not required so I removed them.  I also take the mirrors off when off road.  I believe Accerbis makes foldable mirrors (fold out for street then fold in against the handlebar for off road) but I've never used them.

I think I will just go with the smaller, lighter bike. I will start my search at the 100 to 150 range. I considered the dual route, but discarded it because of the prices. Bikes down here are terribly expensive. Once I move back to the states, i migt be looking for a KTM 900 or similar. The good thing is that there are places for me to ride very close to my house. I would be on the street for less than 2k. I think I'll start at the local store that sells gear. I'll see if someone from there is selling a bike they outgrew. Then I'll be posting all sorts of questions about technique.

My first bike was a DR 350 and it was just enough for me to respect a dual sport. Lightweight, power is suitable, and reliable. Following the DR 350 was my XR 650L; In one word; damn reliable. Much taller than the DR 350, a mild bump in power, and highway legal. I rode it on the road for several months commuting 32 miles one way. The first time I took it off roading is when I realized that it was a dirt bike. Never had I felt more confident than when I hit the trail entrance. It was like autonomous; I just whacked the throttle and the bike did the rest. I was impressed. However, it is a heavy bike but I'm not worried about that. I have to man up. Things to watch out for on the XR650L are oil changes and the rockers. Frequent oil changes are a must.

My most recent dual sport is my GS 1200. I'm never letting this bike go. It's titty milk to an adult. It has everything one would need for a world traveller, which I have to work up to. I've taken it to the race track, the desert, and the trails. I love it. A bit heavy but it makes the XR seem like a lightweight.

Hit up thumper talk or ADVrider for more info. Also, walk into your local dual sport shop or off roaring store and gobs of real time info should come your way. Good luck!

All has been mentioned. Most people usually start out on dirt and then street :) I have both, I use both brakes all the time, of-course front is always first on the street then a little rear. On the dirt, rear brakes are used to square off turns, slow the rebound down, drop front wheel if too high off jumps(very advanced move, always have your clutch in, nothing worse than a silent bike in the air with the front dropping like a rock!) I just started road riding going on my third season(low miles), still learning, it is like going from a PC to a Mac, lol! Different on the street, I would like track time on street.

What sort of dirt riding (tight woods, desert, motocross, long-distance, multi-day rides)?  What part of the world (Chile?) ?  The more info you can fill in as far as details will help me give a helpful response.  I've competed in almost all types of off road riding there are (haven't done speedway at all or dirt track competitively yet, otherwise I've pretty much done it all in some manner).  The bike you'll want for new england enduros will be very different from the bike you'll want for baja and motocross will be a whole different sorta machine yet again.

As a general matter small bore two strokes are the most fun (somewhat subjective) and the best learning tools and create the best riders (objective fact in most folks' opinion - mine included).  Dual sports are generally heavy, poor handling and relatively expensive to crash.  They can be a lot of fun, but are the most fun when you are already a good off road rider.  If  you can possible haul the bike to the trails you'll have a lot more fun and rewarding off road experience.  

Dirt riding is huge fun, really the most fun I've ever had and I've put 60k miles on a superbike, flown aerobatic WWII airplanes, gliders, raced DH mountainbikes, and generally done a lot of fun stuff and off road riding beats it all by miles imo.  [Dolph]

And for fun, here's a few pics

Alpine singletrack
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Toy-ztHkHSw/TK_ItWntx_I/AAAAAAAALqM/DC4DwTQclRM/s512/P9110059.JPG)

Baja beaches
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--0gRoFVN6S8/TIUk1vgtpJI/AAAAAAAALi8/o5R0bCZN_WA/s640/P9030069.JPG)

Fooling around in the back yard
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-UIc4Mfn3ens/ThO6_Zz3IAI/AAAAAAAAMCQ/gQR03tyni7c/s720/IMG_1088.jpg)

Successful completion of the longest off road race in the U.S. - solo of course!
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-XXfkRyHszx8/THNlElikVQI/AAAAAAAALLM/JMA3Jrt1Vxg/s720/45000_152640921415071_100000074920798_498431_7131776_n.jpg)

Motocross
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9Yg2rIgsEkg/Sn0JU4_bGYI/AAAAAAAAJ7A/AMwbsWzmQX8/s640/DSC00545.JPG)

dirt track
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aQqqInCh6UY/Sn0JO3Gz9-I/AAAAAAAAJ6w/inU5V_wK0ok/s720/DSC00534.JPG)

Hey BP(2).. 

what age did you start riding trials and were you doing that on a bicycle prior?

those pics are awesome  [thumbsup]

Mostly will be doing more like the alpine above. I will start in the easy trails close to where I live. They have a ton of trails up and down the mountains. Hopefully by the time I leave here I should be a decent trail rider.

Awesome, that sort of riding is some of the most fun there is!  I prefer fairly small cc two strokes for alpine riding like that as you don't need a huge amount of power on a narrow trail.  The only tricky bit is that there currently aren't any fuel injected two strokes so you'll need to play with the jetting a bit to get it correct for your altitude.  There are many good options, the KDX200 is excellent, simple and easy to ride.  A KTM200 is a bit faster and more capable, the KTM150 is more revvy and feisty (I really like it), a Husqvarna WR125 or 150 is similar to the KTM150 but maybe a bit more mellow.  Any of the 125cc two stroke MX bikes will be fine too if you can keep them revved up - they'll make a great rider of you, but won't let you be lazy - huge fun :)

One other consideration is that if you will be at very high altitudes it can be difficult to make a two stroke run well due to the effect of the altitude on compression and jetting.  For example, if your trail starts at 5,000' and goes up to 14,000' you may find that a 125 that is jetted properly for 5,000' will barely run at 14,000'.  Four strokes, especially larger ones, are more tolerant of big altitude changes. 

If you want something a bit more relaxed a newer fuel injected four stroke like the Husqvarna TE310 or KTM 350 Freeride would be really good, but fairly expensive.  

For simple 100-150cc bikes other than the more competition-oriented ones mentioned above, the KLX140L is one of the better air cooled four strokes in that displacement range and most all mfg's make something similar.  These are simple air cooled bikes, not intended for competition, but they are reliable and fun so long as you aren't in a huge hurry - sort of like a monster 620 compared to a 748 (the 125cc MX bike would be the 748).  The KX100 is a small two stroke MX bike, very high performance, huge fun to ride, like a 125 you've gotta keep it revved up all the time, but it really goes when you do.  A CRF150RB is similar to a KX100, but a competition four stroke so it has a bit broader power curve and is easier to ride, a very good bike but expensive and a bit maintenance-intensive. The CRF150F is basically like a KLX140L, only heavier and with less-good brakes, but it is reliable, simple and works fine.  

If you come across any models in particular that interest you post up and I might know something about them.

In the end, the bike doesn't matter too much, especially for singletrack where the trails usually don't require a huge amount of power and are not horribly bumpy, so if the fancy bikes are too expensive or not available in  your area you'd be just fine on most any dirt bike.  As a general rule the less weight the better.

One thing to consider is range - most dirt bikes have fairly small fuel tanks.  Most of the time that's not an issue, but if the riding you have in mind would take you more than ~35 miles from your truck/house/gas station then you should take range into consideration when picking a bike.  Acerbis, IMS or Clarke make larger aftermarket fuel tanks for many bikes and oem fuel tank sizes can vary a lot.  Also, fuel consumption varies a lot from one bike to another.  Typically 2-stroke motocross bikes use the most and four stroke trail bikes use the least with four stroke motocross and two stroke trail bikes in-between.


IZ  I started riding trials last June (a few weeks before my 29th b-day), hadn't done any type of trials before that.  I've sadly been working a ton this summer/fall and have only been on the trials bikes about 5 times.  Rode one observed competition (aced the noob class! [laugh]), rode for one Ryan Young class (highly recommended!) and rode around the backyard (where the pics were taken) 2-3 times.  Its huge fun, I recommend it if you are thinking about it  [thumbsup]  You can pile crap up in your backyard or driveway or wherever and have fun for hours.  It also really wears you out.  After 20 minutes in the back yard I have to take a rest.

There's a 2007 CRF 150F for sale in the area.

That would work just fine.  They are well made, last almost forever and very simple to maintain.  They are a bit heavy for their power output (which isn't much), but still light compared to most big bikes.  You wouldn't go wrong with it.  If that's the style of bike you want and you happen to see a KLX140L for sale for the same price the kawasaki is basically the same, just a bit lighter weight.  There is a big aftermarket for the CRF150F if you want to go crazy souping it up  [laugh]

 [laugh]

I wouldnot be souping it up. This is going to be more of my fun beater for a few years.

I could not find any used KLX140L through the local website. The lighter the better, but I would definitely prefer a 4-stroke.

There's nothing wrong with the honda, I don't even know if kawasaki imported the KLX to your country.  If its not available the honda will work just fine.  I've ridden one a fair bit and it carries its weight well :)  The honda is about 28lbs heavier than the KLX, otherwise they are quite similar (the klx has a better rear brake, but on small bikes its not that critical).

Here are details on the Honda:
http://powersports.honda.com/2009/crf150f/specifications.aspx (http://powersports.honda.com/2009/crf150f/specifications.aspx)

And the kawasaki
http://www.kawasaki.com/products/product-specifications.aspx?id=463 (http://www.kawasaki.com/products/product-specifications.aspx?id=463)

All model years of the KLX140L are the same.  The CRF150F is pretty much the same for all years other than that they added electric start about 5 years ago, before that it was kick start (I actually like the simplicity of the kick-start version).  The KLX is electric-start only and always has been.

If it helps your search the Yamaha TTR125L and TTR125LE is also very similar and a fine bike.

If you are also considering older bikes the XR200 is a good bike.  Very similar engine/frame to the CRF150F, just older-styling mostly.  I think it isn't much heavier than the CRF150F, but it is kick-start only in case that bothers you.  They were the same from the early 1990s to the present (or whenever they were discontinued).  The XR200 in the late 80s was actually a bit taller, faster and had better suspension than the newer ones.  When it first came out they had ideas of it being a semi-competitive off road race bike.  It wasn't really so they detuned it and made it shorter and less expensive.