I read up on several threads discussing chain tension procedures/specs, and looked up my owner's manual and factory service manual - but I still have some questions and wanted to be sure.
In finding the mid-point between the countershaft sprocket and rear sprocket, it came out to be about 11.5", and it just so happened to be a notch in the lower chain guard with the front most edge at around that 11.5" point - so I used this as the midpoint. Is this the same thing that other owners have found?
Now, there seems to be 2 trains of thought on measuring chain tension. One is the OEM spec that relies on what appears to be a static distance between the lower part of the swing arm and the chain. I can't find out if the correct measurement is the center of the links or the bottom of the chain. But I measured 58mm to the bottom of the chain.
The other train of thought appears to be measurement of chain slack.
If I push down on the chain, it goes to 66mm. If I push up on the chain, it contacts the chain guard easily and without resistance, in fact I think it can move upwards even more if the chain guard wasn't there. But I measured about 23mm.
So from 23mm to 58mm, that is 35mm of play. Others have quoted 20-25mm or 27-29mm of chain slack, so I am over either by 10mm or 6mm depending on who you ask. Looking at the OEM spec, I am over by 10mm.
My 696 was bought brand new, with 0 miles, and I have only put 148 miles on it so far. I can tell no one adjusted the chain tension at the dealer because the paint marks are still on all the adjusters and axle nuts.
Is my chain too loose? What measurement should I use as a reference? What can go wrong with my chain this loose?
Copied from your owner's manual [thumbsup]
Turn the rear wheel slowly to find the position at which the
chain is at its most taut.
With the motorcycle on its sidestand, press with a finger in
the centre of the bottom run of the chain and measure the
distance between the centres of chain link pins and the
aluminium swingarm. The distance should be within 46 to
48 mm
148 miles since May? You need to get on the bike and just ride, instead of worrying about every little thing about your bike.
Quote from: Goat_Herder on December 04, 2011, 09:15:03 PM
148 miles since May? You need to get on the bike and just ride, instead of worrying about every little thing about your bike.
this
Fair enough, but I didn't have much experience to ride it for commuting this year - the MSF BRC was worthless IMO, and there wasn't much opportunity to go cruising on the weekends. So the manual's instructions are good to go? I should forget about the other internet Ducati articles talking about 20-29mm of play?
I ordered a 30mm axle socket which looks like a 6-point long socket, is this good to go in case I do need to align the rear wheel or adjust chain tension? 30mm sockets aren't exactly common or part of most kits, I looked around and the biggest I had was 27mm.
It sounds like I am worrying about every little thing, but I'm just planning ahead with any necessary special tools.
Ducati's 46 - 48 mm are from the swingarm to center/middle of chain.
It's not the same as 'play' - 'play' is distance from chain pushed down and lifted.
Since the chain is NOT supposed to contact the swingarm when it jumps up, it's plausible that the 46-48 distance is resulting in a 'play' shorter than 46-48..... probably matching what you have read elsewhere.
and offhand... one more thing to mention about getting more seat time if possible...
making sure you get as many miles as you can on the bike while it's under warranty is a really good idea. if anything is funny from the factory, only by riding it will you find out if anything is wrong. and if you dont ride it to shake it down and the warranty expires... you'll be SOL if there really is something wrong. you've only got about a year and a half left on your unless you get the extended.
so again, get more seat time. unless your commute is really dangerous (18 wheelers blowing past you at 90 mph), just try it out. even riding in a straight line is still more and more practice. or look up a less widely traveled route to work.
Quote from: metroplex on December 05, 2011, 03:56:12 AMIt sounds like I am worrying about every little thing, but I'm just planning ahead with any necessary special tools.
Doing all the research is a good thing, don't get me wrong. And by the look of all your posts and questions asks, you are definitely doing your homework. But I do think you should just go out for rides for the sake of riding. Enjoy the wind in your hair (with a helmet on, of course). Don't let motorcycle ownership be a job.
Now get away from the computer and go for long ride!
Quote from: stopintime on December 05, 2011, 04:17:29 AM
Ducati's 46 - 48 mm are from the swingarm to center/middle of chain.
It's not the same as 'play' - 'play' is distance from chain pushed down and lifted.
THIS
I've owned mostly belt and shaft drive bikes for the past decade plus and when I DID have chain drive bikes the spec was normally play so it confused me to when we picked up this M696 back in April.
Anyway, I've since posted in one or more threads about what I discovered which was simply that the wording in the owner's manual and service manual SUCKS and you "press" on the top of the lower run of the chain moving it AWAY from the swingarm and measure the gap.
Yes, the end of that chain guide corresponds to about the midway point.
One thing that I didn't understand until after many years of Ducati ownership:
When measuring chain slack, you don't push down. Only up.
And it doesn't matter if you measure top edge of chain, bottom edge of chain, or center of pins, because the distance is the same. You're only looking at total chain movement. In other words, measure from the same point on the chain to measure chain movement.
When I had the ST2 I forgot to find the tightest spot first and did the chain adjustment at a loose spot instead. When I rotated the wheel to check everything it was way too tight part of the way around. I had to do the adjustment again - then get a new chain soon after that.
There's no tension on the chain if I push up. It goes right into the swingarm/guide without any resistance, but it measured about 52mm using the Ducati method. I didn't do any adjusting, just played around with the measurement methodology.
If you reduce the distance from 52 to 46 it probably won't hit the swingarm.
At least it shouldn't if Ducati has the correct numbers.
It'll be interesting to hear if you then get the play described elsewhere [thumbsup]
on my 796, the chain would hit the swingarm when correctly tensioned if pressed up. dont worry about it.
Quote from: ScottRNelson on December 07, 2011, 11:26:41 AM
One thing that I didn't understand until after many years of Ducati ownership:
When measuring chain slack, you don't push down. Only up.
And it doesn't matter if you measure top edge of chain, bottom edge of chain, or center of pins, because the distance is the same. You're only looking at total chain movement. In other words, measure from the same point on the chain to measure chain movement.
That is aboslutely NOT how the procedure is written in the OEM owner's manual or the service manual (not that either are written well). Nor is it how the sticker is presented on the side of the M696 which is what caused me a LOT of head scratching when we first bought it. Maybe the M696 is unique in that aspect - I don't know.
QuotePush chain downwards with a finger at midway of chain lower section and release
(http://www.gigabikes.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10081/M696ChainAdjust.jpg)
But you absolutely DO measure the GAP, NOT the MOVEMENT on this model (unless FBF is setting up the chain wrong).
Quote from: metroplex on December 07, 2011, 11:30:38 AM
There's no tension on the chain if I push up. It goes right into the swingarm/guide without any resistance, but it measured about 52mm using the Ducati method. I didn't do any adjusting, just played around with the measurement methodology.
When I first attempted to adjust the chain that puzzled me too. Turns out that when properly adjusted the chain can be manually pushed upward to contact the swingarm right at the end of that guide.
If you attempt to tighten it to a point where you could no longer do that it will be WAY too tight and you'll eat the chain/sprocket (and possibly damage output shaft bearings).
Quote from: Kev M on December 08, 2011, 01:31:28 PM
That is aboslutely NOT how the procedure is written in the OEM owner's manual or the service manual (not that either are written well). Nor is it how the sticker is presented on the side of the M696 which is what caused me a LOT of head scratching when we first bought it. Maybe the M696 is unique in that aspect - I don't know.
I'm just basing my information on the newest Ducati that I've owned, which was a 1998 ST2.
These are the exact words in the owner's manual for that bike, and the swingarm uses the same setup as the Monsters and 888 that I've owned:
Adjusting Chain Tension
- Raise the motorcycle onto its centre stand.
- Turn the rear wheel slowly until the chain is fully stretched.
- At the halfway mark on the swinging arm (see adhesive label on arm), press the chain upwards with one finger and measure the amount of slack.
- The lower section of chain must not give more than 30 mm when pressed at the point indicated.
It doesn't say anything about pushing down on the chain. I found when I pushed down, then pushed up, and measured the distance, the chain was too tight at 30 mm. But following the above method seemed to get it just right.
I don't know if it makes a difference putting the bike up on a center stand or on the sidestand.
So maybe different models have different ways to set the slack.
Different bike, different procedure. The tag on the swingarm is pretty clear to me. Read it and follow it.
A centerstand definitely changes things.
Looks like Ducati has used different methods on different models.
Quote from: Kev M on December 09, 2011, 02:25:38 AM
A centerstand definitely changes things.
Looks like Ducati has used different methods on different models.
This!!!
That's why every model has the correct procedure stickered to the swingarm. It's the only sticker I didn't take off and relocate. :)
That makes a lot more sense. Would it be ok to use a rear stand to check the chain tension, like a Pitbull SS rear stand? This should allow the swingarm to be compressed as if it were on a sidestand, but also allow me to spin the rear wheel to find the tight chain link?
Quote from: metroplex on December 09, 2011, 06:27:29 AM
That makes a lot more sense. Would it be ok to use a rear stand to check the chain tension, like a Pitbull SS rear stand? This should allow the swingarm to be compressed as if it were on a sidestand, but also allow me to spin the rear wheel to find the tight chain link?
I would say no. Check it on sidestand. Both my bikes S2r and m1100s state (on the sticker) to perform the service on the sidestand.
Quote from: metroplex on December 09, 2011, 06:27:29 AM
That makes a lot more sense. Would it be ok to use a rear stand to check the chain tension, like a Pitbull SS rear stand? This should allow the swingarm to be compressed as if it were on a sidestand, but also allow me to spin the rear wheel to find the tight chain link?
I use a roller stand that I got from Aerostich (the small portable one). This allows the bike to sit on the sidestand and the rear tire with only a minimal (if any) change in swingarm position, but it also allows me to roll the rear tire and check various positions for the tight spot.
We also use this in lieu of a rear pit stand for cleaning and lubricating the chain.
Plus it's portable and if she ever decides to tour on this bike then we can take it with us too.
As long as the weight of the bike is supported by the springs all is good, sidestand, rear stand, lift with the bike held vertical in a wheel vise, all the same. It is the angle of the swing arm that matters.
Quote from: howie on December 09, 2011, 08:46:36 AM
As long as the weight of the bike is supported by the springs all is good, sidestand, rear stand, lift with the bike held vertical in a wheel vise, all the same. It is the angle of the swing arm that matters.
My thought is that when you lift the bike (even if you do so via the swingarm so it continues to bear weight) you actually change the
amount of weight on the rear suspension (you shift more of the weight onto the front wheel the higher the rear is lifted).
I'm probably being somewhere between anal-retentive and pedantic worrying about that (i.e. it's probably an RCH of a difference) but I'm sure there is a difference.
That said, I suspect a pit stand would work fine.
Quote from: Kev M on December 09, 2011, 09:28:23 AM
My thought is that when you lift the bike (even if you do so via the swingarm so it continues to bear weight) you actually change the amount of weight on the rear suspension (you shift more of the weight onto the front wheel the higher the rear is lifted).
I'm probably being somewhere between anal-retentive and pedantic worrying about that (i.e. it's probably an RCH of a difference) but I'm sure there is a difference.
That said, I suspect a pit stand would work fine.
True, but the difference is insignificant.
Quote from: Kev M on December 09, 2011, 04:47:22 PM
Agreed
This is a post revived from the dead, but it needs correcting.
First of all, Ducati gives the Monster 696 chain tension specifications using the side stand because everybody has one. If you have a paddock stand, fine, but mine can be installed so that it supports the rear swing arm right below the axle OR, way forward of that position so that it can significantly affect the swing arm angle and therefore impact the chain tension adjusting procedure. In other words, you CAN use a paddock stand, but the numbers you use for chain tension may be different from what Ducati prints.
Ducati has published two ways to measure chain tension, BOTH of which say use the side stand. Begin by rolling the bike to find the tightest part of the chain. The procedure I prefer says to pull DOWN on the middle of the lower run. The English and British shop manual notes stop there and go on to the next step where it says to measure the distance between the middle of a link pin to the lower edge of the aluminum swing arm. The distance must be 47mm plus or minus one mm. However, the Italian version of the same manual says pull down in the middle of the lower run and THEN RELEASE THE TENSION. In other words, the English versions don't say to keep tension or release it. They don't address it one way or the other, but the Italian version does. If using this method, you should NOT be touching the chain when you measure and the measurement is to the center of a link pin, not the lower edge of the chain side plate.
I live in Italy and these sorts of translation errors crop up all the time. Don't get me started on my Alfa Spider manuals........... sigh.
Ducati has also published an entirely different procedure where you pull down with one finger on the lower run of the chain, measure the distance, then push up on the chain, and again measure the distance. The "movement" or "slack" between up and down should be 25-27mm. Of course, getting the numbers used with this procedure mixed up with the numbers used in the first example is a sure recipe for trouble. Either method is fine, but be sure you know which is which.
When my chain tension is set correctly, I can push up on the lower run with three four fingers and if I use considerable force I can JUST get it to bounce off the rubber slider on the under side of the swing arm. This takes a pretty good force and it is NOT something I can do with only one finger. I also can't hold it against the slider, it just bounces off, but it does make contact. That's my quick and dirty check and it matches pretty well with both of the procedures printed by Ducati.
I hope this clears up some misunderstandings for new Ducati owners.
Thanks for the additional input from the Italian language version of the manuals.
Makes sense to me.
I still suspect we're talking RCHs on the stand thing, but I check it on the sidestand anyway so no problems here.
[thumbsup]
Yeah it makes a lot more sense to let go of the chain to make the measurement.
Oh duh - I WAS releasing - that's what the sticker on the side of our 696 says (that I posted a pick of earlier in this thread).