I did some Google searching and forum searching, and there was a lot of discussion about what size bolts to use, what type of hoses, etc...
I downloaded the European parts catalog and Identified the following items that are different:
LH deflector
the 2 screws and 2 gaskets for the intake manifold / tubes
3 hoses
Y-adapter
Can anyone verify that this is it? I plan to order OEM Ducati parts to save confusion on size/fit/quality.
My question is what do I need to remove to gain access to the intake manifold / tubes that contain the nipples? I am planning to lift the fuel tank to fix the battery tender lead (fuse blew) so I figure this might be a good time to ditch the evap canister as well.
Where do I route the new Y-joined hose assembly?
There was some mention of a How-To thread with photographs, but I was unable to find it - I probably used the wrong keywords.
I did a full write up. I'll see if I can find it.
Was it easy accessing the LH intake manifold nipple/port? I noticed the RH side is accessible with the RH cover removed. I can slip in a socket/extension bar without any problems (so it seems).
But the LH side is very close to the spark plug and fuel tank. It looks like I cannot stick a socket and extension bar due to the frame clearance. How did you remove the nipple and install the bolt?
Also, I removed the tank this afternoon to fix the Tender leads and noticed that I could probably leave my vent tube in-place and just cut and splice in the T with a new hose for the breather tube.
i originally used rubber plugs on the intake nipples. but during the rebuild replaced it with bolts. either not that hard
yes you'll want to T the tubing in front of the tank just make sure you use the longer hose. the other you can pull out (weight savings [drool])
It sounds like we use the same style of tubing at the gas tank and the T? So I could probably just cut the existing drain tube, install the T, then route an additional hose from the breather tube into that T and call it a day for that system? Is there any risk to drawing a vacuum in that tank or causing pressure issues?
How did you access the LH nipple/bolt? Did you need to use a U-joint?
Quote from: metroplex on December 12, 2011, 05:27:04 AM
It sounds like we use the same style of tubing at the gas tank and the T? So I could probably just cut the existing drain tube, install the T, then route an additional hose from the breather tube into that T and call it a day for that system? Is there any risk to drawing a vacuum in that tank or causing pressure issues?
How did you access the LH nipple/bolt? Did you need to use a U-joint?
the tubes are different sizes so you'll need a small adapter. I bought a tubing connecter kit at pepboys cheap. Had T's, adapters, etc.
small hands ;)
What tool did you use to remove the LH nipple and to install the bolt? The frame seems to be in the way, as well as the fins on the cylinder heads to use a straight extension bar and socket. I don't see how I can use a box/open-ended wrench either.
Did you use regular blue threadlocker for the threads of the bolts inserted into the intake manifold?
Quote from: metroplex on December 12, 2011, 06:08:59 AM
What tool did you use to remove the LH nipple and to install the bolt? The frame seems to be in the way, as well as the fins on the cylinder heads to use a straight extension bar and socket. I don't see how I can use a box/open-ended wrench either.
Did you use regular blue threadlocker for the threads of the bolts inserted into the intake manifold?
like i said, i used the rubber plugs until I had the motor out of the frame.
Maybe go through the top with fuel tank off?
But yes, used regular blue locktite.
Ah, I didn't read that from your original post. You had the engine out, which will not have that interference. I just had the tank removed over the weekend to re-do the Tender leads, it does not help. If you look at your 696 right now, the LH nipple/bolt is tucked away behind the frame and the fins for the cylinder head. The RH nipple/bolt is accessible once the air deflector is removed, but that is not the case for the LH - unless I am missing something.
So the bigger hose on the fuel tank is for the breather - to allow "fresh air" into the fuel tank as the pump sucks out the fuel, and the smaller hose on the fuel tank is the overflow tube (for excess fuel that gets spilled near the filler)?
I did mine with the engine in, though I forget how it did it. IIRC, I just removed a panel to give me a bit of room and then I could access everything I needed to get it in and out.
I used this instead of loctite blue for the high temp application. If using loctite, I would use red instead of blue though:
http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers/auto_Permatex_High-Temp_Red_RTV_Silicone_Gasket.htm (http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers/auto_Permatex_High-Temp_Red_RTV_Silicone_Gasket.htm)
The panel covers the RH side. The LH side isn't covered by anything that I can see.
The OEM manual calls for LOCK 2, which translates to something like Loctite 243. I did a Google search and couldn't find an equivalent that was readily available - but a Loctite/Permatex engineer said the blue should be fine?
Quote from: metroplex on December 12, 2011, 06:37:48 AM
The panel covers the RH side. The LH side isn't covered by anything that I can see.
The OEM manual calls for LOCK 2, which translates to something like Loctite 243. I did a Google search and couldn't find an equivalent that was readily available - but a Loctite/Permatex engineer said the blue should be fine?
yeah, don't overthink it. blue is fine. just make sure you use a washer to ensure you don't get an air leak.
you'll know if you do if you have a surging or stumbling depending on rpm.
I think I might have just used a pair of pliers to wrench out the LH side. But I do distinctly remember using a driver in there to tighten it back up... I might have slipped in the socket and hand tightened it till I could fit in the driver to tighten it down. All I can say is that it def can be done, you just might have to get a little creative on how to do it.
Evap canister was never an issue for me, so I'm no help.
But I love how generous so many DMF members are with sharing the benefit of their experience and without ever seeking or expecting a word of thanks. Good on you Raux and thought [thumbsup]
Can't be much help either as my dealer removed mine at the first service and told me that he fitted bolts rather than vacuum caps. I'd asked him to make the whole thing reversable and he just snipped the line near the canister. No idea what else he did but it took him only a few minutes and he installed a LH Euro shroud for me. Was only there for 1 1/2 hours total, including oil and filter and a chain adjustment I requested, and half that time was spent on the Ducati computer checking out a cold start complaint I had. http://motowheels.com/i-6921561-ducati-air-deflector-left-side-m696-m1100.html (http://motowheels.com/i-6921561-ducati-air-deflector-left-side-m696-m1100.html)
As for a sealer for the bolts, blue should be fine. I can't imagine those bolts are in a big hurry to back out. If I'd done it myself, I'd have used Hylomar. It worked on hot BMW cases for eons. http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/auto_Permatex_Hylomar_Universal_Blue_Racing_Formula_Gasket_Dressing_Flange_Sealant.htm (http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/auto_Permatex_Hylomar_Universal_Blue_Racing_Formula_Gasket_Dressing_Flange_Sealant.htm)
What was your cold start complaint?
Also, should I install some type of mesh/filter for the breather tube exit to prevent spiders from laying eggs or debris from clogging that tube?
Quote from: metroplex on December 13, 2011, 03:52:27 AM
What was your cold start complaint?
Also, should I install some type of mesh/filter for the breather tube exit to prevent spiders from laying eggs or debris from clogging that tube?
the tube you should keep is the one that has the pinched end.
My cold start issue has nothing to do with a 696. You have a totally different cold start procedure. Lots of threads on yours.
Suppose you could stick a mini inline fuel filter on the end of that line if you are arachnophobic! ;)
Quote from: metroplex on December 13, 2011, 03:52:27 AM
What was your cold start complaint?
Also, should I install some type of mesh/filter for the breather tube exit to prevent spiders from laying eggs or debris from clogging that tube?
Hi Curmudgeon, just checked the Motowheels site re the left hand shroud. I see it's clearly labelled "696 and 1100" but may I assume if fit right on your 796.... any problems?
Also interested in any update on your cold start thread, strangely enough it did start to get cold up here after all but I was lucky enough not to have any issues at all. Sorry, just sayin ;)
Quote from: cyberswine on December 15, 2011, 11:05:27 AM
Hi Curmudgeon, just checked the Motowheels site re the left hand shroud. I see it's clearly labelled "696 and 1100" but may I assume if fit right on your 796.... any problems?
Also interested in any update on your cold start thread, strangely enough it did start to get cold up here after all but I was lucky enough not to have any issues at all. Sorry, just sayin ;)
That shroud is 696/796/1100, so no issues I'm aware of, but the dealer installed it when he removed the evaps while I waited. I'd guess it's a straight bolt-up however.
No updates because I haven't isolated the issue. I'm also a wimp and it got chilly here. Currently it seems that it
may fire right up if I fully charge the battery and leave the battery tender connected. Failing that, it appears to fire if I first fail to get it to start and then try it again 10 minutes later. Need a few more cycles to confirm. Already tried other methodologies. Bear in mind that mine is stock, ~ 1,700 miles, and this issue cropped up ~ 500 miles.
DNA wanted my dealer to take a whole series of readings, but as he's 140 miles from me and the bike always starts eventually, I'm not up for leaving it with him. Transportation is too difficult and I have no reason to believe that DNA will give him a quick fix. If it wouldn't start
period, then I'd be all over him and he knows it. ;)
My dealer alleges that no other 796 he's sold does this, so I presume that the battery hasn't enough CCA, the ECU is intermittently wonky, or the Euro 3 tune and cold start protocol is too lean or a combination of the above.
When the bike is kind enough to start, it still only fires at 1200 RPM. "Normal" is 2000 RPM with the stepper motor bringing it down to 1200 quickly. That happens whenever I take it for a ride and fire it up either warm later or within 12 hours or so. If I have it running from a cold start, and then shut it off and restart, it also does the "normal" 2000 to 1200 RPM routine.
I'll update if and when there
is an update though.
I did a Google search for Ducati Cold Start and it seems 1098/1198 owners have similar issues without any conclusive fixes.
Some people recommend opening the throttle a little but that doesn't seem to work for me. My 696 only has issues starting below 50F, so I don't see how it could be fuel, spark, air, or electrical related. If I park my 696 under the sun when it is cold, it starts right up.
What I'm wondering is if this is related to engine oil. I have no clue what the dealer used, but the manual specifies 15W-50 synthetic which is very thick stuff. What are you running?
Quote from: cyberswine on December 15, 2011, 11:05:27 AM
Hi Curmudgeon, just checked the Motowheels site re the left hand shroud. I see it's clearly labelled "696 and 1100" but may I assume if fit right on your 796.... any problems?
I fit the shroud on my 796, it's a straight bolt up, no issues at all. Feel free to order with impunity ;)
BTW
When the engine is running, I can feel some vacuum from the bottom-most breather tube on the charcoal canister.
Thanks guys. I'll order the shroud when I have the bucks and figure out where to get some impunity [laugh]