I have about 3000 bucks in my medical flex account. Barring any sickness I should have the same loot left come November. Any advice. Taking of the glasses to put on / remove my helmet is a pain. I would also love to be able to see the alarm clock and no longer deal with presription shades and such.
Quote from: blue tiger on June 21, 2008, 07:08:50 PM
I have about 3000 bucks in my medical flex account. Barring any sickness I should have the same loot left come November. Any advice. Taking of the glasses to put on / remove my helmet is a pain. I would also love to be able to see the alarm clock and no longer deal with presription shades and such.
1. As your eyes age, the corneas will become less flexible... so you're vision will deteriorate again**. But there is only so much cornea that can be removed.
2. If you have the procedure done, do it at the BEST place your money can buy. If it is done incorrectly, you could experience extreme difficulties, such as 'halo' effects when viewing bright lights at night: this would make night riding dangerous/impossible.
** Same thing happens with people with glasses - that is why they need to have their lenses changed.
3. even if you have the procedure done, you'll still probably be wearing sunglasses when riding during the day - so you'll have the helmet problem.
4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LASIK
Good luck! [thumbsup]
+1 to above
It does correct your vision, but that is not to say in the future you will need glasses again.
Also, your prescription needs to stabilize for at least 12 months before the procedure can be done.
Personally, the possible cons of the procedure far outweigh me putting in contacts every morning. But then again, that is a personal decision.
I know 2 people that have had the procedure done by a very reputable surgeon and have had the bad side effects. Then again, I know a dozen people that have had it done and experience none. Too much risk for me when it comes to my vision.
good luck
I had Lasik done in January. I was nearsighted with my left eye being -3 and my right -2.5. Afterwards my right was -.25, and left -.75...so I had the left "touched up" 2 weeks ago. My left is now 0, and right is still -.25. Basically I see 20/15 now.
It is friggin' awesome!!! [thumbsup]
I have no halos at night, sunlight doesn't bother me any more than it used to. I basically see the same as I did when I was 20 years old (I'm 35 now).
The downside is I will likely need reading glasses by the time I'm 45-50 years old. This is because your lens hardens over time and loses the ability to "flex" and correct for close up vision. I thought about it and figured who cares. I'd rather need glasses for reading only, as opposed to all the time like I was before.
If you get it done my recommendations is don't cheap out. Find an Optometrist you like and trust, and ask who they would go to. Pay whatever the Lasik/PRK people ask. I went to Pacific Cateract and Laser Institute (pcli.com). I paid $2,800 for the surgery (unlimited touch ups) and $450 for pre- and post- care from my Optometrist. I could have got it done for 1/2 that in town, but my Optometrist said no one was better than pcli. Sold.
Also, make sure you follow the follow-up care religiously. It consists of antibiotic drops for 1 week, steroid drops for ~2 weeks to slow down the healing, and regular eye drops for at least 6 months. Keeping the eye healthy after surgery is key.
Lastly, make sure you discuss the options with your doctor. You can get either Lasik or PRK. Lasik leaves a flap but healing is quicker, while PRK has no flap but takes twice as long to heal and is supposed to be more painful. I went Lasik, but my wife is going to get PRK, partly because her pupils are large compared to her cornea, which can lead to halos from the flap edges. Just understand what your options are, and what the differences are.
For me it was a GREAT decision. [thumbsup] I also have a lot of friends who I talked with before hand who agree it was a great move.
I had PRK done 10 yrs ago:
Left eye = 1 op
Right eye = 4 ops...and counting... :(
I was told right off the bat that I'll most likely need reading glasses at 40+ yrs of age...nothing you can do because it's part of the aging process. For 10yrs of freedom, I think it's worth it, even though I'm going to need another op on the right eye.
+1 on the advice of don't cheap out. There are several places that I know of that offered "grand opening specials" that have now closed. I went with the one that guaranteed that they'll take care of me for life... Can't say about the "for life" part, but after 10+ years, they're still taking care of me.
why would you want to correct the vision of a laser?
....
....
anyway- I have a friend who has lived with glasses and contacts his entire life. About 2 years ago he got the Lasik thing done and he hasn't shut up about it ever since. I have been blessed with abnormally good eyesight my entire life (but my nose doesn't work worth a dang). I just got reading glasses for close up stuff though in spite of my distance vision remaining excellent. This echos the sentiment that you may need glasses for other reasons later. I say go for it- but they're not my eyes. Good luck~
I'm 24 and have -8.5 in both eyes and want to have this done in the next couple of years due to having to wear contacts for the last 15 years. My mom had it done a long long time ago (I think 15+ years) and is just now getting to the point that she needs reading glasses.
This procedure just scares the crap out of me.
The cornea is sliced, folded back, and the inside of the "flap" is lased to remove tissue. Then, the flap is folded back to it's original place.
There is no way to suture or secure this flap. The only thing keeping it in place is the natural "stickiness" of the eyeball.
The procedure has not been practiced for very long, so no one knows the long term effects (i.e., 20, 30, 40 years down the road). As far as I know, I still want to be around at 60, 70, and with some luck 80 years old. And, I don't want my eyeballs to start falling apart in my golden years.
Major hee-bee-jeebees going on here. Granted, I've only researched this a little bit to correct my own vision, but I stopped cold when I started reading about the details.
Thank you God for giving me good eyesight!
I have a couple friends that had Lasik done, and they all have nothing but good to say about it. But like the above post, I'd be hesitant about 30 years down the road. Thats still unknown territory.
Quote from: JohnnyDucati on June 21, 2008, 10:14:10 PM
This procedure just scares the crap out of me.
The cornea is sliced, folded back, and the inside of the "flap" is lased to remove tissue. Then, the flap is folded back to it's original place.
There is no way to suture or secure this flap. The only thing keeping it in place is the natural "stickiness" of the eyeball.
Then consider PRK. Instead of a flap, the surface cells are removed. They then re-generate, leaving the eye in it's original condition. A little more painful and a little longer heealing time though.
I think the flap does heal a bit...it isn't
just the stickiness of the eye. After about a week it would take a very major incident to move it, and after 24 months my doctor won't fold it back for touch-ups anymore (he does PRK if needed).
Like you said, it doesn't ever fully heal though. I'd be lying if I said I didn't think quite a bit about the procedure before going ahead.
I was having similar thoughts since I hated getting up and not being able to see the alarm clock, going swimming and having to take my glasses off, needing prescription sunglasses, etc. I asked my eye doctor (who is also a surgeon) whom I have been going to for over 20 years. He flat out said no, that my eyes are screwed up enough (scar on my one retina causes me to be technically legally blind) and that I shouldn't risk it. That was about 2 years back. Finally after wearing glasses for about 15 years I just got contacts last month. It's soooooooo much better than glasses. Granted I'm not supposed to sleep with them, and don't, and I'm not supposed to swim with them but I don't need prescription sunglasses anymore and I don't have any issues with my helmet anymore.
If you have any doubts at all about getting LASIK try getting contacts first. Depending on your insurance it could cost you next to nothing so if you're not happy it's not like you spent a ton of money.
I am also considering this, soon. Be aware, LASIK is NOT a good choice if you are in any sort of combat sport (i.e., getting punched in the face); there is another option.
Quote from: JBubble on June 21, 2008, 10:10:57 PM
I'm 24 and have -8.5 in both eyes and want to have this done in the next couple of years due to having to wear contacts for the last 15 years. My mom had it done a long long time ago (I think 15+ years) and is just now getting to the point that she needs reading glasses.
Damn, I thought my eyes at -4.5 were bad.
At what rate are your eyes getting worse?
Mine tend to move about -.25 every 12 months.
I think your eyes have to stabilize for minimum of a year before the procedure is done.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on June 22, 2008, 09:28:32 AM
I think your eyes have to stabilize for minimum of a year before the procedure is done.
My doc said two years is best, but I'm sure there are varying opinions.
Quote from: Sinister on June 22, 2008, 09:15:23 AM
I am also considering this, soon. Be aware, LASIK is NOT a good choice if you are in any sort of combat sport (i.e., getting punched in the face); there is another option.
What's another option? I'm in some sort of combat sport.
Quote from: XiaoNio on June 22, 2008, 10:20:33 AM
What's another option? I'm in some sort of combat sport.
PRK. Instead of a flap they remove the surface layer of cells instead, which re-generate.
With either option your eyes will be sore for a month or so. Not sore in general, but sore to the touch. I've noticed it when the collar of my t-shirt brushes my eye. It's not bad, but I'm guessing a punch would hurt a lot more.
I also hate the idea of the flap. I've read up on it and will go with what my Doc advises. There is a Lasik/PRK place here in INDY that has a nationally recognized eye doc that does their procedures. He may be my first stop. If I don't chicken out. I also have contacts and don't care for them euther.
Quote from: Triple J on June 22, 2008, 08:04:18 AM
Then consider PRK. Instead of a flap, the surface cells are removed. They then re-generate, leaving the eye in it's original condition. A little more painful and a little longer heealing time though.
Quote from: Triple J on June 22, 2008, 10:38:15 AM
PRK. Instead of a flap they remove the surface layer of cells instead, which re-generate.
Also, be advised that with PRK, you will have to wear protective contacts for about 2 weeks. PRK will essentially feel like a whole lot of corneal abrasions without the lenses. You will be considerably more photophobic that with LASIK, and as others have said PRK will be noticably more painful than LASIK...
I did a bunch of research in 2001 for LASIK and read all the medical journals. My take was to find :
1. a reputable doctor who has done lots ( like in the 1000s)
2. has the latest equipment ( usually US is behing FDA approval timelines compared to Europe or Asia)
3. preferably at a facility that publishes research. ( means that they teach others , i believe teaching enhances the skill of the practioner)
So i selected Wavefront ( was very new back then in US) using the smallest spot lasers and found doctors in India that specialise in Lasik ( they do more in a day than most doctors in a month) who where also pioneers in the field ( their names came up as presenters at many conferences). Advantage of India was the Wavefront system and cost . My entire trip in India for me and my mom( from Malaysia) for a week cost less than just one eye in SF using older tech
I got a nice vacation and my eyes are doing great- i wish i had done this years ago. No side effects and i do not miss glasses or contacts with the paraphernilia.
Quote from: blue tiger on June 21, 2008, 07:08:50 PM
I have about 3000 bucks in my medical flex account. Barring any sickness I should have the same loot left come November. Any advice. Taking of the glasses to put on / remove my helmet is a pain. I would also love to be able to see the alarm clock and no longer deal with presription shades and such.
I always wear sunglasses when I ride . Granted you have to put the helmet on 1st , then the glasses. Then when I take off my helmet the glasses come off 1st , but I don't find that to be any big deal. Some sunglasses with metal frames ( like some Oakleys ) I can't wear because the frames need to bend when I put the glasses on , but there are plenty of others including Oakleys that work fine.
Quote from: JBubble on June 21, 2008, 10:10:57 PM
I'm 24 and have -8.5 in both eyes and want to have this done in the next couple of years due to having to wear contacts for the last 15 years. My mom had it done a long long time ago (I think 15+ years) and is just now getting to the point that she needs reading glasses.
A couple things. I've read some stuff on here that's patently untrue, but to cover your Q first, you are a high myope, you might not be a candidate if your corneas aren't thick enough. So you need to see a Doc if you are interested.
To address some mentioneds earlier. The cornea doesn't harden as you get older, the interocularlens does.
In LASIK, which is a very particular procedure, a flap about 100microns is ablated via an ultrasonic vibrating blade, or via laser (Intralase). the flap is folded back, and the corneal bed underneath is ablated via laser pulse (hundreds sometimes)
there are, as in any procedure, possible side effects, in this case, including loss of the eye... And if you ride a motorcycle in the twistys, there is the off chance of crashing and ending up paralized or dead. You odds are better in the laser surgery...
There are no sutures used, not because there can't be... There can be. I've assisted in suturing and removing sutures from the cornea, its very unpleasent. It's done freehand and in the case of removal, it's done with a small needle...
The reason no suture is used is because the Corna adheres to itself quite well, and within hours is quite happily reattached. There are scars post LASIK, they are 4-6mm outside your central vision cornea and only ever cause glare issues. At last check, my ophlamologist couldn't find any indication I'd had LASIK, so they can go away.
I've seen mostly good cases, and a few bad, but I like the procedure enough that I've run the VISX Laser for a number of dear friends... That should tell you something. One of them had neovascularisation of his corneas because of contact lens use. In other words, his corneas were opacifying. Another was a -11 myope. The Doc explained he wouldn't get better than 20/40 uncorrected with LASIK, he got 20/30... His riding has improved.
I would advise to anyone who doesn't have to wear glasses, not to wear sunglasses in your helmet. It's not healthy in a crash. Wear a tinted shied. Bring a clear one to, if need be. Or get the pin on photoreactive films... But don't wear glasses in your helmet....
I suppose I should justify these things I've just said. I'm a student just now, but before this, I was an ophthalmic tech. For five years I gave eye exams, then assisted in Laser and other eye surgeries for another five years, obviously including LASIK. If you are in the LA or SB area, I can point you in the direction of a good surgeon.
In response to the first post, how old are you? If you are nearing forty, you might want to talk to me first, but if you've a decade or two, LASIK is a pretty slick option. Around forty, though you can push it if you "exercise" your inter ocular lens begins to haden, and then ceases to accomodate at all. When this occurs, if you are a 20/20 vision person, you lose the ability to see near without correction. Believe it or not, there are even ways around this. But more on that when someone brings it up...
Quote from: Smokescreen on June 22, 2008, 11:22:46 PMBelieve it or not, there are even ways around this. But more on that when someone brings it up...
Stem Cells? Eye Implants??
Quote from: JohnnyDucati on June 21, 2008, 10:14:10 PM
This procedure just scares the crap out of me.
Major hee-bee-jeebees going on here.
No kidding. It's loads of fun to be awake during the procedure, because of the squirm factor. And the singular experience of having numb eyeballs.
Strangely, the micro-keratome part (where the flap is sliced) alarmed me more than the laser bit (where bits of your eye are blasted away). Still, I'm absolutely 100% delighted that I went through with it. And now I have a cool video, of the procedure.
Quote from: Smokescreen on June 22, 2008, 11:22:46 PM
I've run the VISX Laser for a number of dear friends... That should tell you something.
This same sort of (good) attitude was the deciding factor in me approving my surgeon. I asked the surgeon whether he felt that the procedure was routine for him. He said, "no, not exactly routine, but I did recently perform it on my wife, and that ought to tell you something about my confidence that I'm repeatedly doing it the best that it can be done." SOLD.
I had Lasik with wavefront done about a year and a half ago, cost me about $4k.
My surgeon had previously done my optometrist's eyes years before, so I thought that was a good recommendation.
I had been quite nearsighted (about -7, -7.5 diopters) with significant astigmatism in both eyes.
After the surgery, I was at 20/15 in both eyes. [thumbsup]
Healing included a few months of dry eyes (needing re-wetting eye drops) during which I did have some halos at night (due to the dry eye). That is all gone now.
BTW I do contact sports (karate).
I will eventually need reading glasses, as everyone (with or without the surgery) will (unless you get the "monovision" option where they correct one eye for distance and one for close-up vision).
I'd recommend going and getting evaluated for the procedure. It didn't cost anything for the evaluation, and I learned a lot more about it. I had thought about it for several years and put it off because it made me nervous, but eventually I decided the benefits would be worth the risk (plus the additional experience and technological improvements that had occurred along the way).
I had to wait for several months before having the surgery done, as I had worn gas-permeable (rigid) contacts for many years. They needed me to go without them for a while, so I changed to soft contacts, then glasses, to prep for the surgery.
For me, it was definitely worth it.
Quote from: msincredible on June 23, 2008, 01:55:00 PM
BTW I do contact sports (karate).
No you don't. ;D Do you spar? Do you regularly get punched in the face/head? Hard? I've heard a lot, from fighters and those in the fight game, LASIK is not good for fighters.
I had LASIK done ten years ago and my vision is still 20/15 in both eyes, compared to 20/500-525 before the surgery.
Contact sports members might consider LASIK with Intralase, but I'd advise finding a doctor who uses Intralase and discussing the particulars. In short however, since Intralase obliterates a single cell layer the flap turns out to be more like a manhole cover than a sliding flap.
If you DON'T do contact sports, there is a non Laser option that leaves the patient with accomodation indefinately. This works by replacing the interocular lens of the eye (this is the part of the eye that hardens and causes loss of accomodation) with one of differing power that rides on "hinges" allowing the IOL to move when the cilliary muscles of the eye prompt it to in a similar manner to how a non-presbiopic lens does.
Eye Implants aren't viable yet because we've not found a way to reconnect or regenerate nervous cells.
Anyhow, hope this helps!!
W
Quote from: Triple J on June 22, 2008, 08:04:18 AM
I think the flap does heal a bit...it isn't just the stickiness of the eye. After about a week it would take a very major incident to move it, and after 24 months my doctor won't fold it back for touch-ups anymore (he does PRK if needed).
+1. And more than a little bit. I went for an update two years after the procedure was completed, and the doc that did the update couldn't tell I'd had the surgery.
I had it done when I was 27. It has been a life-changer. i went in knowing that I'd need reading glasses in my 40s, but I'm sure by then I'll know it all and have no more need for books. Heh.
It does have limitations - many branches of the Armed Services may limit or deny your participation, and most professional and amateur contact fighting organizations (think boxing, UFC...) won't allow participants that have had the surgery.
Quote from: dropstharockalot on June 24, 2008, 09:38:32 AM
...and most professional and amateur contact fighting organizations (think boxing, UFC...) won't allow participants that have had the surgery.
Is it the promotion or the state athletic commissions, which deny fighters?
scares the living crap out of me
don't know why, but anything having to do with touching eyeballs scares the living crap out of me
always has
can't use contacts, can't put eye-drops in, and it takes the optometrist about 10 tries to do the glaucoma test cause i flinch every time
i can't even watch someone put contacts in
that said, my mom had the monovision and loves it... needs a pair of glasses with one real lens to drive at night sometimes
Quote from: Sinister on June 23, 2008, 02:09:22 PM
No you don't. ;D Do you spar? Do you regularly get punched in the face/head? Hard? I've heard a lot, from fighters and those in the fight game, LASIK is not good for fighters.
Yes although I mostly teach other people how to do it now (I've been sparring for over 15 years now, thank you very much ;)).
Several people in my karate studio have gotten LASIK. I agree there are more considerations here. Generally we recommend wearing good eye protection, such as shatter-proof googles.
Edit. PM sent.
Quote from: Sinister on June 24, 2008, 12:37:43 PM
??? What? How can you wear goggles and get punched in the head? We're talking apples and oranges. Karate= points, MMA=blood
I have gotten punched and kicked quite hard in the head and elsewhere, usually not drawing blood, but I have had some pretty spectacular bruises.
2 comments:
1) FDA is looking at how satisfied people really are with the procedure. Early data was 15% have some degree of issue of varying degree. You should do a google search on this.
2) My friend when is the regional manager for a large co that manufactures LASIK machines wears glasses
I've decided to stick with contacts for now...
Quote from: Sinister on June 23, 2008, 02:09:22 PM
No you don't. ;D Do you spar? Do you regularly get punched in the face/head? Hard? I've heard a lot, from fighters and those in the fight game, LASIK is not good for fighters.
I've been hit hard many of times, since the surgery ten years ago, sparring.
I think most of you are pussies.
Quote from: ADG on June 24, 2008, 02:44:33 PM
I've been hit hard many of times, since the surgery ten years ago, sparring.
I think most of you are pussies.
Hmmm...interesting. So, you had LASIK? Did you discuss your pastime with your surgeon? What were his comments? I'm curious, because I'm thinking/researching it and I don't want to give up the standup game.
make the beast with two backs you, on the 'pussy' comment, stud.
Quote from: ADG on June 24, 2008, 02:44:33 PM
I've been hit hard many of times, since the surgery ten years ago, sparring.
I think most of you are pussies.
WTF dude? Was that really necessary?
Quote from: ADG on June 24, 2008, 02:44:33 PM
I think most of you are pussies.
Sweeping, incendiary comment FTW! Threadjack.
Had the Wave LASIK done a few years ago and I am ALWAYS recommending it.
By the 1st check up after the procedure was done (can't remember if it was 6 or 12 months after procedure) the Doc couldn't find the scars.
Definitely don't go cheap. Find a well established practice so the lifetime guarantee actually has some meaning.
Quote from: MikeZ on June 25, 2008, 05:16:33 AM
Definitely don't go cheap. Find a well established practice so the lifetime guarantee actually has some meaning.
+1
I have heard there is less success with the PRK procedure. But each candidate is different. I'm glad I qualified for the Lasik.
-I had the Lasik done 6 years ago
-My eyesite is still great (20/15)
-I love that I don't wear glasses or mess around with contacts anymore
-My night vision improved a lot, no halos from lights
-I train in Muay Thai and Kickboxing, been hit plenty hard more times than I'd like, with no issues. (you do have to wait a reasonable amount of time for the eyes to heal before you do any serious activity)
-I realize that my eyes will get old just like the rest of me and I might have to get reading glasses someday.
-I feel it was well worth the money.
I have a good friend who is an ophthalmologist(eye surgeon). She refuses to let her husband get LASIK. He wears contacts.
I wear glasses. In my opinion, no matter how annoying glasses and contacts are, the possible complications of LASIK are way more annoying. I don't feel the need to roll the dice on my eye sight.
Ken
in addition to my overwhelming fear of anything touching my eyeballs,
chicks dig the glasses
they make me look smarter
in meetings, i can pull them off, rub my eyes and make it look like whatever's being requested will be a lot of work.
in short, they're an excellent prop....
though i do hate the remove glasses->put helmet on->put glasses on through visor routine
Quote from: cmorgan47 on June 25, 2008, 08:47:54 AM
in meetings, i can pull them off, rub my eyes and make it look like whatever's being requested will be a lot of work.
[laugh] [laugh] I do this...sometimes followed by a heavy sigh.
Quote from: Sinister on June 24, 2008, 10:21:41 AM
Is it the promotion or the state athletic commissions, which deny fighters?
I've read rules from a couple different kickboxing alphabet-soup sanctioning bodies that would have excluded me from Amateur comp... I'll search around and try to locate those. I think IKA was one.
When I called the local cagefight / traveling circus (King of the Rage in the Xtreme Elite Fight Combat whatever... Chris Lytle's promotion...), their guy said they didn't allow fighters that had had LASIK.
Dunno about state commissions.
BTW, I've been sparring w/ headgear and 16oz gloves since about two years after the surgery... against my Dr.'s advice. He's made clear that it would nullify the warranty if my eyes are injured during this activity.
Quote from: Sinister on June 25, 2008, 09:30:38 AM
[laugh] [laugh] I do this...sometimes followed by a heavy sigh.
oh yeah, the sigh is critical
rub eyes....maybe take a long sip of coffee before saying an exasperated "ok, what that mean
I'll have to do is....."
Quote from: cmorgan47 on June 25, 2008, 02:08:37 PM
oh yeah, the sigh is critical
rub eyes....maybe take a long sip of coffee before saying an exasperated "ok, what that mean I'll have to do is....."
If I'm really busy/annoyed/lazy, I do the move where I toss my glasses on to the table and lean back in the chair. I don't like to pull that out too often, though.
Quote from: Sinister on June 25, 2008, 02:44:39 PM
If I'm really busy/annoyed/lazy, I do the move where I toss my glasses on to the table and lean back in the chair. I don't like to pull that out too often, though.
Damn thats a good move. [clap]
Course, if I take my glasses off and toss them, I won't be able to find them again.
Quote from: JBubble on June 25, 2008, 02:59:26 PM
Damn thats a good move. [clap]
Course, if I take my glasses off and toss them, I won't be able to find them again.
Dropping them on the table in front of you works, too.
Quote from: Sinister on June 25, 2008, 02:44:39 PM
If I'm really busy/annoyed/lazy, I do the move where I toss my glasses on to the table and lean back in the chair. I don't like to pull that out too often, though.
Drama queen contractors! [roll]
[laugh]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=18cXl8MgoZs
Quote from: Triple J on June 25, 2008, 03:32:09 PM
Drama queen contractors! [roll]
[laugh]
Bwahahahaha!!!
Quote from: Triple J on June 25, 2008, 03:32:09 PM
Drama queen contractors!
nah, i'm full time salaried... don't think the contractors would get away with it
Quote from: cmorgan47 on July 01, 2008, 02:46:37 PM
nah, i'm full time salaried... don't think the contractors would get away with it
He was talking to me, I work for a general contractor.