Hi guys Happy New YEAR
I had this issue with my bike recently:
In the middle of the ride the engine stopped and the bike wouldn't start - the immobilizer light wouldn't turn off and shows an error.
Left the bike for a few hours and got the red key, same thing, tried the override procedure, wouldn't work. Eventually had to tow the bike to the shop where they reset the computer and did some trouble shooting so eventually the bike starts now.
In any case today (3 days later) it happened again, same thing - lucky enough after 5 min the key out it started.
Any ideas? Has anyone had similar issues or know what it is. I guess my main question is why the override procedure doesnt work (full throttle with turning on the key) as I would love to have an option to start it if I get stuck again.
Thanks in advance for any advise!
PS Update - eventually got the immobilizer bybass by my mechanic, but after a week of riding happened again twice in 2 day - same thing, the bike would die in the middle of the road (usually at the traffic light in the busiest intersection in New York :) ) the ECU led light will not turn off, only now the starter will click few times since there is no immobilier, but the engine won't start.
After waiting for 10 min or so - the issue disappears, the yellow light turns off and the bike starts.
My mechanic doesnt know what it is - any ideas guys? Thanks in advance for any feedback
Some 620s had gauge issues (internal corrosion) which created immobilizer/starting problems.
Thanks Ducpainter
Can I just replace the gauges or does it have to be the whole set (gauges, ecu, keys etc)?
Quote from: dkramp on January 01, 2012, 05:48:05 PM
Thanks Ducpainter
Can I just replace the gauges or does it have to be the whole set (gauges, ecu, keys etc)?
You can have the ecu reflashed and the immobilizer eliminated...search...you'll find sources.
After you can use any gauges you want...factory or aftermarket.
Got you. Thx
Is there a way to be sure that's the issue is indeed with gauges before spending $500 or so on reflashing the ECU - already spend a couple hundreds in the shop for immobilizer Bypass last week (which seemed to help for a week or so)
Quote from: dkramp on January 01, 2012, 06:01:12 PM
Got you. Thx
Is there a way to be sure that's the issue is indeed with gauges before spending $500 or so on reflashing the ECU - already spend a couple hundreds in the shop for immobilizer Bypass last week (which seemed to help for a week or so)
I'd pull the gauges apart. If you see internal corrosion that's probably the issue.
ECU reflash for your bike should be $250
if the starter clicks it's a battery or power supply to the starter solenoid issue. it will either not cank (immobilised) or crank. clicking is something else. what's the charging system like?
So I checked the gauges today (pulled them apart) looks pretty clean and good condition didn't find any corrosion.
Checked the battery condition - great and healthy.
Battery was change less than a year ago.
Don't really know what else to check - the tricky part is that the issue is coming and going, I get stuck on the road but when I bring the bike to the mechanic it runs and starts perfect.
Start with load testing the battery to be sure it is good, then check the charging rate, 13.5-14.5 volts across the battery. If those check out well, time to check connections. From your symptoms, start with battery connections and grounds. With the meter in parallel to (across) the connections while cranking you want less than .2 volts at each connection.
Quote from: brad black on January 02, 2012, 02:21:19 PM
if the starter clicks it's a battery or power supply to the starter solenoid issue. it will either not cank (immobilised) or crank. clicking is something else. what's the charging system like?
I agree, but it seems from his description that the immobilizer/ecu is involved.
Quote from: ducpainter on January 02, 2012, 07:34:58 PM
I agree, but it seems from his description that the immobilizer/ecu is involved.
Yeah I was hoping that it is not the ECU so I dont have to replace everything (ECU, gauges, keys) , but as I said - we were sure it is the immobilizer issue so my mechanic did a bypass so there is no immobilizer now, however the issue came back after a week or so...
But if it is - does anyone have an idea what will it cost me to replace it? or I guess the right question would be - how can I not spend too much money replacing it :)
and once again, thanks for all the replies - VERY HELPFUL
Check your charging system
+1 to the above. Also, if you have the immobilizer turned off and want to eliminate the gauges from the equation (for testing purposes), you can disconnect them entirely and try that.
Also, what's the age of your battery? You could have an internal battery short going on...
Thanks for all the advise, the battery is less than a year old - I will test the charging system, however how do you explain the bike shutting down in the middle of the ride after few miles of driving with warm engine etc. ? So basically this issue only happens after I ride for a while and not even after a bike has been sitting in a garage for a few days with no charging of a battery...
Quote from: dkramp on January 03, 2012, 10:56:34 AM
Thanks for all the advise, the battery is less than a year old - I will test the charging system, however how do you explain the bike shutting down in the middle of the ride after few miles of driving with warm engine etc. ? So basically this issue only happens after I ride for a while and not even after a bike has been sitting in a garage for a few days with no charging of a battery...
bike is running off the battery partially til it dies.
then it gets some of its power back as it's a decent battery.
had a car have the same issue.
eventually it killed the battery then another before the shop figured it was a bad alternator.
Quote from: Raux on January 03, 2012, 11:09:18 AM
bike is running off the battery partially til it dies.
then it gets some of its power back as it's a decent battery.
had a car have the same issue.
eventually it killed the battery then another before the shop figured it was a bad alternator.
Got you - that makes sense, thank you.
Now how could I test it to confirm - measure the battery when it happens?? or any other way?
PS. Just for the record guys, I am pretty handy with electronics and stuff, plus spend 3 years in the army as a tank commander so I could pretty much take it apart and put back together, but pretty new to bikes ( just have it less than a year) - so excuse me if I sometimes ask questions that might seem obvious to you :) .
Quote from: dkramp on January 03, 2012, 11:30:07 AM
Got you - that makes sense, thank you.
Now how could I test it to confirm - measure the battery when it happens?? or any other way?
PS. Just for the record guys, I am pretty handy with electronics and stuff, plus spend 3 years in the army as a tank commander so I could pretty much take it apart and put back together, but pretty new to bikes ( just have it less than a year) - so excuse me if I sometimes ask questions that might seem obvious to you :) .
When it died the first time, and your tech disabled the ecu...
was the battery low? Did he check it, or charge it?
Quote from: Raux on January 03, 2012, 11:09:18 AM
bike is running off the battery partially til it dies.
then it gets some of its power back as it's a decent battery.
had a car have the same issue.
eventually it killed the battery then another before the shop figured it was a bad alternator.
I don't think a moto battery, even in good condition, would last that long if it wasn't charging based on the electrical demands of a FI bike plus the starting draw.
I might be wrong. I suppose it might be charging just enough to make it last a while.
Quote from: ducpainter on January 03, 2012, 12:31:02 PM
When it died the first time, and your tech disabled the ecu...
was the battery low? Did he check it, or charge it?
I don't think a moto battery, even in good condition, would last that long if it wasn't charging based on the electrical demands of a FI bike plus the starting draw.
I might be wrong. I suppose it might be charging just enough to make it last a while.
if you have low output instead of no output from your alt...
Quote from: Raux on January 03, 2012, 12:35:52 PM
if you have low output instead of no output from your alt...
Possible...
the immobilizer issue could have been triggered by whatever failed I suppose too.
I know the ecu in my 996 didn't like reverse polarity.
SO here you go guys - still havent resolved the issue but now I made a video last time it happened..Ducati Monster starting issue (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur8cp-MGl4c&feature=g-upl&context=G2609e6dAUAAAAAAAAAA#)
Please help!
Got a meter? First place to start is checking the charging system.
http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/diagnosis-center/fault-finding-guide (http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/diagnosis-center/fault-finding-guide)
The first click you are hearing is the solenoid.
Thanks ! I will go over the chart now but, yesterday when it happened I checked the battery it was 12.8 or something like that.
also did you see that the ECU light is not turning off?
Hmm based on the chart - the charging system is perfectly OK...
Now what? Any ideas?
High resistance in a connection. You can spot this by testing for voltage drop at each connection to pin point the problem, but you would need to test when the problem happens or all will test good. In your case, it is probably easier to just disassemble, clean and reassemble. Most likely are the battery terminals. Disconnect negative first, connect negative last. Don't forget the engine ground. The lug on the starter is fragile, use caution or leave it alone. Just to be sure, get the battery load tested too.
That bike cranks so I would check the air, fuel, spark, and compression. Probably the spark and fuel to see if that is what it isnt getting since the cranking seems like it has compression. Unless the intake is plugged otherwise that is probably fine also. So check those two and see what you arnt getting. I assume you know how to do that being the above mentioned in this post. You said the pump sounds like it is priming so it is probably spark. I would still check to see if it pumps it out proudly just to verify some good pressure. I would check spark, and if you arent getting any then I would guess it could be part of the immobilizer system. Im not sure how it disables the engine though since I am new to this issue myself.
Maybe you guys can help me with mine while we hash this out as well.
My bike has a different issue currently. I had lost the keys like an idiot. :( I ordered the full set via ebay as well. It was off of a wrecked bike, and once I tossed it in it worked at first that night. Tried starting it 3-4 times and sounded good. Reved up ok and had no issues whatsoever. So at first I thought I had a battery-charging issue once I headed to work the next day. Bike started out great, but seemed to stall out. I was thinking I had this same issue with a bad battery, or alternator. So I decided to not leave it at work and brought it back to the house last night via tow. So today I pulled everything apart and looked at it. My first suspect was the gauges...they were pretty nasty and corroded as mentioned in this post. That was on the circuit board and motor looking portion-servo for the tach. I sprayed them down with carb cleaner and wiped them off with a paper towel. Plugged them in after drying off and it fires right up. I never had cranking like the video in this post. My issue is now how to swap the servo/ digital read out/ face of the gauges. hmmm Anyone ever do this? I dont know how to pull the needles or the little prongs on the back. Right now Im guessing its a chop and soldier plan?????????
THanks and hoping to help out also!
Kyle
Hey Kyle
The bike cranks because my mechanic by-passed the immobilizer, before the bike wouldn't start at all.
Anyway now I put the immobilizer back and cleaned everything possible connection and the issue disappeared for now. But I'm sure with the first rain it will be back :)