Ducati Monster Forum

Hey guys, I know there are a lot of you into the racing scene. I was wondering if some of you could school me on how to get into amateur racing?

Can anyone race?

What type of licensing do you have to have?

Age requirements?

Any classes that are usually required?

Bike requirements?

Are men and women usually kept separate?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance. If there is anything else that I forgot to ask please add it in.   [thumbsup]

duc

I just completed my 1st year racing with our local club up here, WMRRA (Washington Motorcycle Road Racing Association).

Getting involved is pretty easy. Find out your local organization and see what they require. I'm guessing it is similar to mine, so here's what it involved:

1. Take a classroom class, and pay the race license fee. Our class is 1/2 day if I remember correctly.
2. Take an approved track class (basically a trackday instruction, some of it geared towards racing...like practice starts)

After that you're allowed to race in the Novice races...there are 2 every race weekend, one on Saturday and on on Sunday. You pay for your race entries...so the 2 races cost me about $200...and I also get 3 practice sessions (1 on Saturday and 2 on Sunday). A race weekend costs about the same as a trackday essentially.

Novices in WMRRA all race in the same class, regardless of bike type (except Ninja 250s, who race in their own class regardless of skill level).

To graduate from Novice you must complete 10 races, work one day as a corner worked, help once with air fence set-up or removal, and work as a race volunteer one day. After your 10 races you are shadowed by an expert racer (your assigned mentor usually) during a race and if you show you aren't a danger then you move to Graduated Novice.  Graduated Novices are allowed to race in whatever class their bike allows, but wear an X on the back of their helmet to let the other racers know you’re a noob. I think you have to complete 2 races as a Graduated Novice before you’re given your expert plate.

Minimum age in WMRRA is 16 I believe.
No license requirement that I know of, other than described above.
Bike must be completely safety wired, and have a lower fairing capable of holding your full oil capacity (basically you need race fairings). The bike prep. is thoroughly covered in the classroom session.
Men and women race together in WMRRA.
No prior track experience is required, although most everyone has at least done a couple track days.
No specific tire requirements, but pretty much everyone uses race rubber and warmers.
You’ll need a transponder…we use AMD ones which I think is the norm.

Bikes range anything from old beaters to brand new 1198s. I race an ’02 748, which is underpowered, but still a blast.
If you’re considering it, just do it…it is WAY more fun than a trackday!!  [thumbsup]

Awesome info Triple, thanks!!   [thumbsup]

It might be something I would get into, although right now I'm doing a bit of research for an idea I have.

Seeing as you said 'our local club' I would assume that there are many clubs across the nation?

And if you don't mind me asking, what is the end result for you? Do you plan on racing at any professional level? For that matter, is this type of amateur racing a prerequisite/recommendation for entry into professional racing?

Do you know if the other riders in the club are looking to get into professional racing?

You're in SoCal, so you'll want to look into WERA, Willow Springs (WSMC), and others.  Plenty of SoCal folks race AFM (NorCal) as well.  Some organizations only race at one track.  Others race at a few (or many) tracks.  The first thing to do is to figure out what is closest to you or which organization you want ot start with.  WSMC might be what you're looking for, but I don't know that much about it.  I think gm2 races/raced with them.  

Anyone can race.  You need a license from the organization.  Age requirements depend on the local club or the racetracks you attend.  In the AFM, for example, no-under 16 racers when AFM races at Infineon, but it's ok for Buttonwillow or Thunderhill.  Classes are generally part of getting your race license.  Often, you'll go to a race school to qualify.  Again, it depends on the local club's rules.  Bike requirements are pretty specific, and vary between clubs.  Best to buy a used race bike rather than try to put one together on your own.  Men and women race together, though some clubs also have a separate women's class as well so the chicas have a race where they can just duke it out against each other.  And we can watch.   ;D  

I'm not familiar with what info is on the WSMC website (and couldn't find new racers info from skimming the site), but the AFM website has a new racers section.  Go here (http://www.afmracing.org/content/view/22/40/ (http://www.afmracing.org/content/view/22/40/) and http://www.afmracing.org/content/view/49/77/ (http://www.afmracing.org/content/view/49/77/)) and look at the links on the left.  It's specific to the AFM, but most clubs are similar to one another in how the process works.  

There a really good program that races Ninja 250s called Feel Like A Pro.  They have a fleet of 250s to rent at club racing events throughout the WEst Coarst.  http://feellikeapro.com/ (http://feellikeapro.com/)

My end result is just terrorizing my wife as she watches me scream past and hopes I come around for each lap (which I didn't once).  [laugh] I'm too old and slow to try anything more!

There are a few guys that jumped to AMA. If you collect enough WMRRA points it qualifies you for an AMA license...or something like that. For example, Jake Holden is an ex-WMRRA guy.

Some of the younger folks start with amateur racing and then get into AMA stuff.  Generally, it's kids who have being racing minibikes and supermoto and dirt since they were fetuses.  

Many of the fast guys at the local club level will do the occasional AMA round, particularly if it comes to (or near) their home track.  Some of hte really fast guys will give a go at doing a year or two of AMA full-time, but it often does't pan out.  If you look at the AMA guys, a lot of them were class champions at their local amateur club first.  Jeremy Toye in SoCal comes to mind, and Bobby Fong and Steve Rapp were AFM class/club champions. 

spies in the cmra... (and hayden, edwards, schwantz, spencer, polen and more before him)

Thanks for the links Spidey!!   [thumbsup]

This might be a silly question but how competitive is the amateur scene?

Is there any money in it?

Is there any public recognition or is it more just a niche thing?

More of a general question, what is the real gain of just racing amateur if not trying to advance in the sport to a more professional level?

Are there any amateur outlets that provide a more direct possibility or ambition for advancement?

Based on the previous few comments I would assume that a lot people get into it just to add a bit competitiveness to their regular track day experience?

Again, sorry for all the questions, I should have forewarned that I probably would be asking a lot of them. I plan on getting a lot of info from the web but any and all FHE is greatly appreciated!!

No FHE on roadracing locally, but from what i've seen and heard from my shop-mates, and my own forays into motocross and Bonneville speed record stuff....

Competitiveness depends to some extent on the class, 'vintage' will be more friendly than the 600 SuperSport or the like (where everyone thinks they're the next Rossi).

The money will flow one direction, *out* of your wallet, at whatever rate you can stand.

Public recognition will be 0.

Some folks just enjoy riding fast, others are more centered on the competition.
Some of those with fat wallets just want to be able to say they race, omitting the fact that they're soundly beaten by better riders with 1/10th the budget.
Some folks are convinced they're going to make a fantastic living through racing.

I'm pretty sure every successful racer started at the club level.

The best way to make a small fortune is to have a large fortune and go racing.

+1 to Speeddog

The Supersport (600) and Superbike (1000) classes are the most competitive (at least in WMRRA)...we have a few really fast guys that just crush everyone. Everyone is there to have fun though, so it isn't cut throat or anything, just good racing with good people.

The reason to do it is the fun. You're going to spend a fair amount of money, and no one except other racers will know who you are...but man is it fun!!  ;D If a track day is a 7 on a scale of 1-10 a race is a 12.

There probably isn't a logical reason to race.  :)

Unless you *really* want the competition aspect, I'd say just go the trackday route.

You get more track time for less money.

If you're considering a trackday-conversion on your M750, puhleeze let me know.....

Ha, that thought has been on my mind since I got the s2r!! May still be in the cards?!

That's not the 'idea' Im' having right now though. I don't mean to be so secretive about it, I just don't wanna blurt it out till I have more of my ideas hashed out.




So would you say that the guys racing in the Supersport and Superbike classes are the ones more likely to try and make the jump to a more professional level?

On a more personal note, for any of you that have answered and for those that may, why did you decide to try racing rather than just track days? I would like to know if any of you have 'deeper' reasons other than I wanna go fast and beat someone while doing it. Not to sound cliche but was there a calling to racing for you? Maybe it was something you just  always wanted to do?

And Triple made a good point, what do your families think about you racing? I asked my GF what she thought about me trying it out and the answer was "NO!!". However, she did say that trackdays were ok  ???, still trying to figure that one out.  [laugh]
There is always the chance that something bad may happen, even though the chance may be slim. How do they deal with that thought?


As this goes along I may end up PM'ing some of you for a more personal perspective, if none of you mind?

yes, but that's not necessarily where they start. spies started racing in the cmra on minis, then on 125s and 250s (gp). iirc, his first 600 (supersport) was a gsxr provided to him by valvolene suzuki (ulrich) the year of his 16th birthday so he could get familiar with it before he was old enough to ride in the AMA.

(he tried to stuff that bike under my mechanic in turn 5 at oak hill raceway and they both ended up on the ground. ben also broke his arm)


my dad has raced cars is whole life and never had an issue with it.

my mom, on the other hand, was never a fan of the idea and it took a lot of convincing to get her to finally come out to the track and watch me race. unfortunately, that was the day ryan smith (ben spies' world superbike #19 tribute) hit the tire barrier at texas world speedway and died. we had just sent her and my dad out to the tire barrier section because "that's where all the action happens" and they saw the crash firsthand. 

she eventually came back out to the track once or twice to watch, but she was never really "comfortable" with the idea.

I have a good friend that I do a lot of trackdays with that races, and he's been trying to get me to race. I've always been interested, but last year there were zero weekend trackdays at our local track...all weekdays, and I only have so many vacation days. Races are on the weekend, so that pushed me over the edge. Beyone that it's just competitiveness. When I first started trackdays I figured I'd be happy if I made it to the Intermediate group...but since I'm always trying to improve that didn't last long. Racing is a much more effective way to challenge yourself IMO, and after I tried it I'm pretty much hooked.

My wife doesn't mind, although she worries. Racing is safer that street riding. You may be more likely to crash, but the severity of the crash is generally much less. Most walk away from them. Even my doctor prefers I race over ride street.

i can't tell if you've already done/do track days?  if not, definitely start there.  i mean, definitely.

lots of good advice here so the only other thing i'll say is start small.  a 600 is NOT small.  the kawi 250 thing is an excellent suggestion.

Thanks for the responses guys!!

On a different note, do most amateur racers pay for things themselves or is it possible to get some sort of sponsorship even at that level?

Is racing like other sports where there are "scouts" looking for the next big thing?

I would assume that it's usually the same guys racing every weekend for the length of the season and that a camaraderie develops? What about a little rivalry?

There are modest sponsorships available, usually it's basically a discount on parts or supplies.
As one becomes more successful, the sponsorships can get better.

AFAIK, no 'scouts' like the ball sports.

Yes, pretty much the same guys, camaraderie and rivalry depending on the personalities present.

tire manus, OEMs, etc have contingency programs.  win or place, get some money.  but i wouldn't even pay attention to that.  make no mistake: racing is VERY expensive.  tires, especially, are the killer.  but so is everything else.


motorcycle racing?  in this country?  hell no. 

besides, how old are you?  if the answer to that is >13, unless you're josh hayes or jamie hacking, it's really not gonna happen.


maybe this comment is totally unfounded, in which case i apologize in advance.  but maybe it's not: if you so far haven't raced at all (?), you don't have any concept of how fast the 'fast' guys are.  go to a track day.  in general the fastest guys there are the slow racers.  even though fast club racers aren't fast compared to world-level, once you get to racing at all it's a whole different ball game.

i bring this up b/c if you're already wondering about money and scouts and Big Things, you're likely to quickly realize that the only people who get a whiff of that attention are those people winning superbike races.  which means maybe you'll go out and try to ride a 600 or 1000cc bike in anger.  which is going to quickly land you in the hospital.  guaranteed.  that's why i'm saying any of this.

if you've never raced, do track days.  for, like, at least 2 years.  get some professional training.  get the smallest displacement bike you can and learn how to carry corner speed.   


btw, i don't think it was mentioned earlier: Chuckwalla has it's own series now, too.  check that out as an alternative to WSMC.  Chuckwalla is a new facility, reportedly a great track that's kind of in-between Streets and the big track. 

Willow big track, IMO, is unique and therefore sort of cool in some ways.. but mostly it's just a no-fun death trap.  and the primary WSMC classes are usually populated by many gung-ho military guys.  the 600 class there tends to be a meat grinder.

I don't think he's looking to race...he just has some idea, which must involve amateur racing, and is looking for insight into the scene.

+1 on not knowing what fast is though. The fast guys in WMRRA lap about 10 -13 seconds faster than me at Pacific (1:37s vs. 1:24s), and I'm not even close to being the slowest. I think I can get around 1:32 with some more practice...but WTF, 1:24!! I don't even want to go that fast!  [laugh]

That's also why I race middleweight twins...those guys are on 600 and 1000 inline 4s.  :)

ok, fine: there's also no way to make a business out of amateur racing in this country  =)

I firmly believe that it doesn't matter what bike you start with.  yes some bike will teach you better corner speed and braking skills but some bikes will teach you other bike handling skills that the smaller bikes wont.  if you have a bike currently set up for racing or trackdays that you are used to riding use it.  learning a new bike is just another thing to get in your way while developing.  I started on a R6 then went to smaller bikes now want to go bigger (R1).  racing will consume your life, be ready.  there is no off season.  in the on season you will be in the garage every night, gym, the shops, travaling to race, practicing, and then work, family, home.  the off season will have all of this too but with less bike time.  skills are obtained by ridding off road, supermoto, and dirt track.  the skills that i have carried over from my supermoto seasons have greatly helped me on the bike and boosted my confidance and skill tremendously.  get ready to spend money.  even when you are winning tire money you are still spending money like crazy.  the faster you get the more stuff you are gonna wear out, trust me.  the best way to win a million dollars racing is to start with 5 million.  your 1st year, chances are, you're gonna get your ass handed to you.  year 2-3 it will all start comming around then you will be bumped to race with the big guys and then you really gotta bring game.  I've been a single digit plate winner for the last 3 years with the CRA.  I've been 7 2x's and this year I'm #2.  I ran 7-16 races a weekend.  races are expensive, tires are expensive, gas is expensive, and gate fee's etc are really expensive.  bring your check book and get ready for the most fun on 2 wheels.

its hard now adays.  manufacture contigencies are way down as is everything else.  2 years ago guys like Rob Jensen and other bounty hunters were making huge cheese, think enough to turndown being on AMA teams, to run their own efforts racing every weekend with a trailer full of different brand bikes since different co's pay different amonts at each club or race weekend.   [bacon]

Again, thank you to all of you for the info. I really appreciate it!!   [thumbsup]


First of all, I'm not looking to race. Like Triple said I just have an idea.

I appreciate your concern, gm2, but I am older than 13 and therefor have enough common sense to know not to just jump into something that I have no idea about or experience at. That being said, it does sound like you have quite a bit of experience yourself and would love to pick you brain at a later date!!

And thanks for the info on Chuckwalla  [thumbsup], I was just looking at their website and hadn't noticed anything about their own series.

Is there usually a competition for sponsorship or contingency or do the manufactures hand those out freely? I worked with bands for quite a while and you usually had to "prove" yourself before a manufacture like Vic Firth or Paiste would just offer a sponsorship, any similarities?

It's really interesting to think that the guys amateur racing aren't even close to being as fast as the pro's though! Its seems like the first time I sat courtside at a basketball game, I couldn't believe how much better the pro's were in person compared to watching on t.v.

There are plenty of ways to make a business out of amateur racing my friend, you just have to think outside the box!! As I say that I'm thinking "man, I hope my idea works out!!"   [laugh] [laugh]

Do you see or hear about a lot of guys that stop racing because of this. I would imagine it takes a lot of determination to make it to year 2 or 3 if year one can be so bad. 

I think generally people at the amateur/club level just accept it (most anyway). Whether you're racing for 1st, 5th, or 10th, as long as you're racing with someone it's a blast.

it really depends on why somebody is racing... if they're doing it for the fun or camaraderie, then they'll keep racing no matter what.

there's a lot of "just for fun" racers in various classes. i know club racers that have been at it for ~20 years.

Can anyone go to a race as a spectator? I think there's a race in mid-March, that AFM is putting on, at Buttonwillow that I would love to see!

yup, just pay the entry fee at the gate.

the best thing you can do is sit down and figure out goals, budget, and what you really want to gain out of this (then rip the budget page up or eat it).  if you don't have a plan you will get swept away. go on wera's forum.  its 13x forums or something like that.  there is a ton of info on there and its a really active forum for racers and wanna be's all over the world.  theres no other forum where you can talk to wsb racers, isle of man racers, ben spies has been on, ama pro's, all the way down to leg humpers like me about who'd you rather see molded in jello; Ke$ha or Lindsy Lohan.  sometimes we talk bike too.  also get an issue of roadracer world and read some of the racers stories in there.  there also is a web site called new racers that i've written a few articles for.  the site is ran by Gareth Jones who's raced pretty much everything you could on a motorcycle in europe in the 70's[bacon]

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/May/110505ben-younger.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/May/110505ben-younger.htm)

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Jun/110615y-y-y-y.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Jun/110615y-y-y-y.htm)

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Aug/11081138special1.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Aug/11081138special1.htm)

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Sep/11092838spec2.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Sep/11092838spec2.htm)

this should be some good reading for OP-duc750 on this very subject in terms of some of the very things you are asking about....

A photo of one of the fastest guys I know (2010 winner of the CCS Southwest Lightweight Championship on a Hyosung) and the entirety of his fan club addresses some of your questions:

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3330/4572832531_9039b43a54_z.jpg)

If my kid wears a t-shirt like that for me, that's all I can ask for.  :)

he must be doing well.  he can afford 2 shirts. [bacon]

Well played, sir.  [beer]

Thanks for the links zooom!   [thumbsup]




BTW, to all of you...
Why isn't there more notoriety in amateur racing (i.e. press, television airings, etc.). It seems like you kind of have to be part of the circle to know what's going on in it. Doesn't anyone want to be more "noticed"?

I'm assuming all of this of course, since I've never been to a race.

who's gonna pay for all this press, tv, etc?

Who's pays for everything as it stands? Does it come out of the cost per race?

Yeah...rider entry fees.

Not many spectators pay to go watch club racing

Well shit, that sucks...

I didn't dream up the reality of the situation.

Just the way it is.

If you want to go racing and can afford it you should go.

I'm a track day guy. I don't have much desire to get taken out by someone desiring a plastic trophy.

Probly 'cuz I'm old. ;D

[laugh] [laugh]
Good point!

FWIW, I've had more close calls at trackdays than in races. I think you get more asshat wannabes at trackdays, by far. Unless you're riding in the Expert group...but then the majority of them are racers. At least that's how it is around here.

depends on the trackday org and group...like, I think NESBA puts too many people on the track at once in general for example...and I have seen some asshattery moreso in A groups due to the lack of passing rules than in other groups....

Like zooom says, I think it depends on the organizer.

There's no inside passing in any group...period...at the days I ride...

except when some racer wannabe breaks the rules. :P

being that i race and coach for a track school i will say that trackdays are way........way......way......more dangerous.  track days consist of people who do 2-4 per year at a given track.  racers are there 5-7 WEEKENDS a year and some of those trackdays.  generally there are more people on the track at a given time on several different levels of bikes and they are grouped, to the best ability of the orgs, into 2-4 groups.  its amazing some of the shit i've seen at trackdays.  this past year i wanted to kill some guy for cutting out of the coned in track exit into me to do 1 more lap, I've also seen people hit the brakes from full 6th gear pinned throttle to go through turn 1 at BIR Long which you do not need to brake for at all this could result in the ultimate 140mph+ ass packing of one's life.  also keep in mind that if you are slower than the rest of the pack you'll be at the back of it by the 2nd turn where there are no other riders to take you out for the plastic trophy, dfl doesn't get a trophy.  Trackdays are a great way to ride in a controlled enviroment and see what you and the bike can do but to dismiss racing for being more dangerous is just plain wrong.

Who dismissed it? Not I.

I disagree with you regarding the relative danger, but I think the OP should definitely do it.

to each ones own.  hopefully i didn't come accros as being an ass, wasn't my intent [bacon]

Roadracing world is a great website to follow all sorts of racing from amateyr to gp.  I read it daily [bacon]

Not at all.

If I was younger and had more money/less responsibility I'd probably give it a go.

Trackdays w/ the provider I work for are the most cost effective/safest way for me to get my fix.

Every situation is different, and I'm sure your experience is as valid as mine. [thumbsup]

word up.  now someone sponsor me a new R1 [evil] [bacon]

I don't come here often anymore but I'll give you my feedback based on my experience. I've race club level for many years and won many expert level championships, Lead instructor at a professional school, and handle the contingency program for the CRA.

Club racing has nothing to offer sponsors to pay contingencies. The U.S. is the only country that even has contingency paying sponsors. There is not enough spectating going on to be worth their money and time. I set up the contingency program each year, and have seen the sponsors pulling out more and more each year lately. I try each year to attract new sponsors for the club, and fight to retain some of the regulars. Bottom line is, it's not even worth the sponsors paying out to racers for podiums because racers don't spend enough with them, and don't attract enough spectators.

Club racers pay for everything out of pocket unless they are creative and ambitious enough to attract personal sponsors. It's very difficult to do this and most racers aren't ambitious enough to market themselves. I've done the work and had seasons where I was getting cash sponsorships and factory level sponsorships from gear and oil companies but it's hard to do and you have to show them that you are giving a R.O.I.

The average club racing career is 2 years because of cost and injuries. Some of us are hooked and become "lifers" after we grid up the first time, but it's rare. I'm not sure what your big "idea" is that you are working on but it sounds like you are thinking of some kind of marketing deal. There is no money in club racing, and I guarantee that someone else has tried whatever it is you're thinking already. Racers race...everyone else tries it on for a minute and they get weeded out pretty quick. The rest of us can never quit, but again, that's rare.

The racers that go on to race Professional are even more rare and the ones to actually make a career out of it are so rare that your chances of being struck by lightning are greater. For the past few years, most of the AMA grid and even a lot of riders in WSBK, MotoGP, etc. are paying for their own rides. They attract personal sponsors to help out but many of them are not even breaking even. Sad but true. This summer I was chatting with Colin Edwards Senior at the TTBC, and I was picking his brain about why wouldn't Colin go back to WSBK instead of racing the new CRT class. He said that even in WSBK, there is no money. You have to stay in MotoGP to get any endorsement money at all. It's sad when you can't even make $$ if you go back to WSBK and kick ass.

As far as the skill levels...the fastest club racers are a small and very talented part of the population that most trackday riders will never be able to comprehend how they go so fast. Those top club level racers are lucky to ever grid up in AMA and normally are running at the back with occasional mid-pack finishes. They are spending approx. $8,000-$10,000 an AMA weekend to finish mid-pack. The racers up front in AMA have been racing since they could walk and are only there because the planets aligned just right for them to find the money, luck, support, etc. to do what they do.

I know this from my personal experience and from knowing many others who have raced or still race professionally. I work with contingency sponsors, instruct new riders getting their race license, Lead instruct at a professional school, and have had a very successful racing career. This career has left me a hole of debt, and a lot of trophies/championships. Racers race. Is there $$ in it? Hell no.
 [beer]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

well said.

Thanks for the link, I'll take a look at that as well.  [thumbsup]


Thanks fasterblkduc, this is very insightful!  [thumbsup]
It gives me a better perspective on where the money comes from and how things are paid for. I will definitely keep this in mind moving forward. I don't know that my idea will or will not work out, obviously my fingers are crossed that it does!

Great insights.  Thanks for sharing your insider view on club racing.

if you are gonna go racing you need a good back protector and i have a bohn in the gear for sale section.  they are nice for racing because they cover the tailbone in the tuck [bacon]

Thanks, but I'm not looking to race right right now.