Ducati Monster Forum

I saw this Ducati Darhma a few days ago and couldn't get it out of my head so I test rode it today for about 30 minutes.  I am pretty sure I'll buy it tomorrow.  It has about 12,000 orginal miles.  It is a two owner bike.  The non stock items include the seat, handlebars, fairing, and the nice Conti mufflers.  I've seen Darmahs before but never really paid any attention to them.  I think I like this one becasue of the fairing which balances out the big tail end.  

The Conti's sounded great. It was a very nice riding bike and very comfortable for a sporty style bike. It had a lot of charachter and had good vibrations, but not to an annoying level.  It was a little heavy for a sporty bike, but very stable.  The exhaust was loud, but not annoyingly so, and only when I was giving it a lot of gas.  It was not modern day Ducati fast, but more than fast enough for a classic bike (much, much faster than my Guzzi 850T)  

The only negatives I noticed were the stiff clutch, almost impossible to find neutral, a little cold natured, and no kick stand (side stand only).  What is it worth?  It is at a Ducati dealership, so I know it wil cost a little more than a private sale.  Sorry for the poor quality pics, but it was dark inside.  So, what is it worth?  They have it listed at $9K.  

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/Misc/20120106_1980DucatiDarmah.jpg?t=1325905213)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/Misc/20120105_1980DucatiDarmah1.jpg?t=1325905182)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/Misc/20120105_1980DucatiDarmah2.jpg?t=1325905183)

Seems awful steep to me. Is there any collector value?

I would think it's with in the 3k to 5k area.

KBB says $7280.

http://www.kbb.com/motorcycle/retail/1980/ducati/darmah-ss/67052/?r=189024061340193340#survey (http://www.kbb.com/motorcycle/retail/1980/ducati/darmah-ss/67052/?r=189024061340193340#survey)

Other than the lack of a sidestand, the negatives you listed sound par for the course.
There may be some tweaks to ease the clutch pull, and improve the neutral-finding, but it may be as good as it can be already....

Looks pretty nice for an old crock.  [Dolph]

May be different in US but in OZ I would expect somewhere in the $12  K range.
As far as collecter value approx 5500 ever made, a bit over 1700 came to OZ in the first place.
If you do buy there are a few things to check, lots of good info on bevelheaven.com.

I never use my sidestand anyway, they do come up for sale occasionally expect to pay a fortune for any bevel parts.
Surflex clutch kit helps with finding neutral but don,t expect miracles and don't ever expect the neutral light to work.
There are a few options for lightening clutch pull including old yam lever better leverage, longer clutch arm sold by bevelheaven, google ducatimechanicca for instructions on hydraulic clutch OR as they say in OZ harden up princess

So is KBB pretty accurate for older bikes?

Seems steep to me too. Are those S&W shocks? That would be period era suspension. And it looks really clean. I had a friend who had the same model in it's day. Nothing else to add other than the AMS Back in Black Sport 1000s and the factory 2007 Sport 1000 LEs were modeled after this bike. I should know. I owned one of the AMS bikes. [thumbsup] [Dolph]

A low price for a Darmah SD would run around 6k nowadays.

I was offered $6500 for my Darmah SS over 5 years ago.  The same guy called me a few months ago and offered me $10k.

The differences in the Darmah and the 900ss of the same period are small, mainly cosmetic.  The engines were the same as were the carbs and exhaust, only the frames were slightly different. 

The 1980 Darmah SD may have the 40mm Dellorto pumpers and the larger intakes with the large valves.  Check them.  Those look like Silentium cans though, which means small carbs.

Weak spots include the starter chain and the sprag.  electrics are pretty solid except for the nippondenso coils.  Are those Silentiums or Contis?  If they are Silentiums, you can core them and get better performance however, doublecheck the carbs as the Silentiums came on the models with the smaller carbs (32mm PHF)

It looks very clean.  The seat is not original but that's to be expected with the shite vinyl they used.  That fairing is not original.

If you get it, beware that the engine is VERY tricky and VERY complex.  The old 2-part cranks are a pregnant dog and parts are hard as hell to find.  Start searching for them NOW. 

I have a box of oil filters, shoot me your address I'll send you a couple for free.  You won't find them too many places.  Forget it.

Do not use full synth oil, I use valvoline 4t regular 20w50 and it loves it.k

The biggest mistake people make nowadays when buying a bevel is believe it is a motorcycle. It is not.  It is a piece of mechanical ancient history.  Treat it that way and it will last.

That places look very familiar.   :D

Agree with ducatiz about the particulars. That bikini fairing is very un-Ducati IMO, BTW. Had a 900SS of the period. The Contis came loose in the crate from Berliner, the importer and everybody swapped them immediately. The SS had 40's already. Would be nice if this had both Contis and 40's too. Steers like a CVN though.  ;)

Not a perfect restoration by any means but a local one here. (http://gallery.leica-users.org/d/296969-2/Darmah-SD-900.jpg)

No doubt.  ;)
(http://gallery.leica-users.org/d/275073-2/Pre-mod-796.jpg)

I think those are the elusive Marzocchi E82 shocks as well.  They were middle of the line, but pretty rare nowadays.

*sigh*

I loved my black/gold Conti-piped SD900.................

If you do buy it..... I wanna hear more  [thumbsup]

I nearly bought one of those when I was young and single and still had money in my pocket, went and bought a Suzuki GS750 instead  [bang] [bang]

 It looks clean, just go and buy it !







                                            Mmick

as the owner of an '81 Darmah SS...

...you were wise...

IMO that price seems about a grand high. but without seeing it I don't wish to poo poo it. A good friend of mine has one pretty much a twin to that with out the fairing and it is his baby.

Love riding behind him and hearing those contis at a low growl.

The price of bevels has gone up a lot in the last 3-4 years. 

Good condition machines are selling for a lot. 

The negatives really weren't bad. Especially the clutch pull. It couldn't have been too bad because I kept it pulled in at the lights the entire time and that wasn't a struggle.

I like to use KBB, but I'm just not sure it how well it works for older bikes. For example, an excellent condition 1975 Honda CB550 is listed at just over $900.  A 1972 Norton Commando is listed at approximately $5,000. Both of those example aren't very realistic.

I did make a counter offer. We'll see what happens.

Thanks for all the advice guys.  If I get this bike I'll definitely use it.

Those are Contis on there.  The carbs are the stock 32 mm carbs.

Ducatiz, let's see your Darmah SS.  I'd love to see it.

Dunno the real-world validity of KBB.
I'm not really plugged-in on used bike value.

The bevels are a PITA to do valve adjust on.
You can't remove the belts to disconnect the cams from the crank, and the opener rockers don't have clips, so the shafts have to be pulled to get the openers out of the way to swap shims.

Ride it 100 miles twice a month, get the valves done every 2 years....

You'll need to put 40mm carbs on it to really get everything out of it.
This is when I got the bike.  It's currently partially disassembled as I am working out an electrical issue. 

Savvy viewers will notice the owner put an SD front end on it.  I have the original triple and clipons, but he was 65 and wanted to sit upright.  The higher bars hit the fairing [roll] .
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/moto/DarmahSS/8df9re2.jpg)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/moto/DarmahSS/DSCF0818.jpg)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/moto/DarmahSS/DSCF0826.jpg)
iron floaters (280mm)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/moto/DarmahSS/DSCF0831.jpg)
The bane of old Ducatis:  Italian/German/Japanese electrics.  Bosch CDI boxes, Nippodenso coils, Italian wires and design
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/moto/DarmahSS/DSCF0845.jpg)
All Darmahs will say "900SD" on them.  They used the same frames
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/moto/DarmahSS/DSCF0852.jpg)
See that thin ceramic thing?  That's part of the coil.  They break and you are F***Ked because you can't get the coils.  Just buy some Dynacoils and call it a day.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/moto/DarmahSS/DSCF0856.jpg)
Konis (which are rebuildable, thank God)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/moto/DarmahSS/DSCF0859.jpg)



It's not THAT bad and you can modify the opener if you want to use the clips.  You just have to  chop off the sides of the shaft and grind it flat.  That's it.  Ed Milich does it for Pantahs.

Otherwise, you have to take the opener shaft out with a tool.


I put MBP collets in mine...  I checked the openers last year and they were still perfect after 4(?) years?

That's a nice looking machine, just out of curiosity, did the SS originally come in that colour? 

Yes, it's an original color for 1980 only.  However, the bike was in fact repainted at some point but from what I can tell (I had a painter look at it) they stripped it to the metal/primer to do it.

Original:
(http://www.classicsportbikesforsale.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Bk8PngCGkKGrHqEOKj0EtjzYJJ7tBLZkvrOTWg_3.jpg)

If you get bored..., and/or hit the lottery..., you could always do this with it! ;)

(http://www.bevelheaven.com/Products/brakehanger-new3.jpg)

http://www.bevelheaven.com/~BB/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=35401f300162388ee65b1ccdc3d17777 (http://www.bevelheaven.com/~BB/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=35401f300162388ee65b1ccdc3d17777)

I always think the black and gold paint scheme is beautiful.   if you purchased the bike, may you have many miles of memories!

It's worth whatever it is you are willing to pay for it.   Motorcycles are not an investment, other than a Bernard Madoff type of one.   If you like it, buy it.   If it makes you happy, what is it worth then?    I think it's kind of neat.   I wouldn't mind having it. 

These are a vanishing commodity and getting rarer every day.  If you think you can get a better deal somewhere else, you could wait, but then it will always be the one that got away.  The previous poster is right.  It is worth only what you want to pay.  People who don't understand will always tell you you paid too much.  People who do understand would pay lots more.  If you won't be happy unless you have it, you should get it.  Or you could pay twice as much and get a brand new 1199, and make someone else have this problem when you sell it in 30 years.  :)

Yes and no.

If you're a bona fide collector, then yes, a bike can be an investment if you know how to do it.  If this is a bike you're going to ride and enjoy, then the investment is your time and the return is your enjoyment.  You may or may not cash in later, but the amount will be far less than if you restored it to showroom condition and displayed it.

There is a limited market for bikes in the US.  That's why you see the same people over and over at all the meetups.

Yes, yes!  There are investment worthy motorcycles - a well restored 750SS green frame, round case - fetches more than 80,000 €!

A square case SS moved for $17k at an auction in Las Vegas this weekend.  Bevel drive twins are doing nothing but going up in price.....except for the 860 GT, mostly 'cause it's ugly like a man's ass. 

The price is reasonable for a Darmah in good order.....and that one appears to be in good order.

My 2 cents,

Cloner
ABQ, NM

FWIW...a similar bike (I think it was an '81) showed up on Craigslist Houston a couple of weeks ago for $6k, if memory serves correctly.

Buy it!  One reason those old bev. drvs. are worth a lot is because they cost a fortune to refurb.  I've said for years that I'd redo my old 80 Black and Gold SS that I bought new in Spring of 79 if I made it to 60 years old.  Well I'm there and I still can't afford it.

Those Darmahs were nice, but bevel drive Ducatis are NOT suppose to have e-start.  They are ridiculously easy to start.

They do require 40mm Dellothors and Contis and K&N's to be what the factory intended by design, much as an S4RS is a POS with stock pipes and chocked down fueling and gearing (IMHO) ;D.

(hey Cloner)

LA

Thanks for the advice.   I'm putting a deposit on it tomorrow.  Now where do I find those 40mm Dell'Ortos?

Donnie may have an old pair lying around or know where to get them. When I picked my 796, there were two 900SS's on lifts at DucPond, one a bit cobby and one very clean with 7,000 miles. My son who did the color announcing at the Betor Auction at Barber in 2010 and is familiar with values said "$30,000".  ;) http://www.batorauctions.com/results-barber2010.html (http://www.batorauctions.com/results-barber2010.html)

Back in the day you would just call Reno Leoni with your credit card and he'd send you a correctly jetted pair with cables.

If you strike out with Donnie, try Eraldo Ferracci. Use the conical rather than round K&N when you unscrew the velocity stacks. The conicals flow better than the round ones. http://www.knfilters.com/search/univcone.aspx (http://www.knfilters.com/search/univcone.aspx) Jetting should be the same. You may need to richen the pilot circuit. It's been a long time but if I recall correctly, screw in 1/4 turn, not out, to richen.

Good Luck!

As far as finding 40's. Depends on what you are after.
Bevelheaven has new or i have a set that I removed from my darmah to go back to 32's. PM me if you are interested in them, but like all things bevel no one gives them away.
Much nicer to ride with the 32's(40's are real pigs in town) although interestingly uses more fuel with the 32's than it did with the 40's

various places

not cheap

ebay 260934510807

you can sell the 32s for something, they are usable.

it's interesting they put the 32s on the 900 bevels (860ccs) but put the 36s on the pantah 500/600/650 without much thought.

 ??? Thought?  ;)

Plenty of thought. An engine is, after all, an air pump. My 600 SL turned 9,000+ happily. Did lean out (shave) the slides in my 36's a hair to get the response perfectly crisp.

BTW, Reno's kit for a 750 Paso to replace the Weber was a pair of 38's. 38's are bad news on a bevel 900SS, so I questioned him closely on this choice, but it was spot-on for the Paso with no tweaks required as jetted and perfect light tan plugs.

my point was that they put the 32s on the 900 and that was just weird, but when it came to the 500SL, they didn't even think about putting anything smaller than the 36s on it. 

I just wonder what changed in their thinking.  the 860cc bevels should have had 36 or 40s from day one.

Only had an SS, so I have no idea how an SD flows. Air pump, right? ;) Maybe a 36 was overkill with Silentiums and air box? The 600 SL Pantah was a turbine. Only rode a 500 once and it seemed anemic by comparison.

Do you mean the 900SS or the Darmah SS?  Darmah SS and SD had the same engine and frame, the difference was the SS had the fairing and different paint.  Better shocks and the 40s.

I thought the same-year 900SS had the same engines as the Darmahs, just a different frame.

Only had a silver 900SS for a year because it was neglected once I got the 600 SL. By comparison with the SL, the 900SS handled like an aircraft carrier.  ;) Never rode a Darmah and only saw SD's, no Darmah SS's. Did Berliner even import the Darmah SS?

Maybe the Darmah SS had the same heads and cams as the 900SS? No idea. I know the SD's were a good bit slower.

i have a darmah SS!  see pics above.

i think you may be right.  the SD may have smaller valves.

The SD did have the same sized valves as the SS according to this article.  The SD probably had milder cams than the SS and SSD.
http://www.realclassic.co.uk/ducati04082700.html (http://www.realclassic.co.uk/ducati04082700.html)

I'd love to have a bevel twin and a bevel single and would treat them both as history. This is how I treat my '85 Harley (106k miles) and my Paso 750 that lived a very harsh early life. I just figure if I treat them as ancient bikes with all their flaws and character, I won't be tempted to try to ride them like a modern bike and trash the crap out of them. I like to just putt around on the Paso. I figure it's my attention-grabbing oddity when around other motorcyclists.....well, and the Bimota.

I hereby renew my offer to buy said '80 SS....in pieces.....where it sits....despite the "blown-up-Sir" bottom end (that's what's wrong with it, isn't it?)....and will gladly break in to Hedden's garage and sneak it out from under his nose so as to avoid undue hurt feelings between you guys, as long as I get a title.  Make me a price!  I'll even let you ride it when it's complete.  Ya can't beat that, can ya?!? 

Thanks for the advice and comments.  I bought it.  I picked it up today and spent a few hours riding some of my favorite roads.  I love it.  Handles nice, sounds awesome, plenty of power for a vintage bike, comfortable and it makes me feel like I'm a realy good rider.  

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/f587b2c6.jpg?t=1331754606)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/c619633a.jpg?t=1331754594)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/440a19e9.jpg?t=1331752065)

Nice!  [thumbsup] You need a knee down to turn it though, right?  ;) Does it have 40's or 36's? K&N's? Whatever..., I'm sure Donnie has it running just great!

Congrats!  She's a beauty!

congrats, great looking bike.

Makes me wish my '82 Hailwood Rep ran. It needs to go to someone who will spend the coin to make her right.

Well congratulations!

I haven't seen this thread in a while, but I did see where someone said they handle like battle ships or something.  It's not a sissy's bike.  You can make one that is well prepared handle quite well, but it takes a certain amount of "commitment" from a competent pilot.  They will go where you point them, but it does take some forethought.

Hell, it's worth a lot ($) as pure art.  And it IS Italian art - I bet Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci would approve. Hang in on the wall if you can't keep it running.

LA  [thumbsup]

Lots of great bevel info at
Bevelheaven.com
aussie flavour beveldom at "bevelducati.proboards.com"

The motto of QLD AUS bevel and Bullshit Rally
"The bevel made me do it"

The carbs are 32's with conical K&N's and the mufflers are Contis.  The smaller carbs gave the SD a lot of low-end punch, not as much top end.  If I was to change to the larger 40mm Dell Ortos it would also probably need the larger intakes too.  I'm going to leave it the way it is for now.  It is a very civilized and pleasant motorcycle compared to some other vintage bikes I've ridden.  The seat is nice too.  I rode three hours yesterday with no breaks and no complaints.  It is probably 100 lbs heavier than lighter bikes like my Monster or even a Norton Commando.  It has a wheelbase of 61 inches and I think the steering head rake is something like 31 degrees so it is not a sport bike.  So it does take a little more effort to turn than a sport bike, but any comparisons to steering like a battleship are greatly exagerated. It is nice and stable when leaned over and ridden at 7/10ths on backroads it feels great. 

Oh and the stiff clutch is not even a slight issue.  It really isn't that stiff after all.  I never notice it.  Side stand is easy for me too.  I won't need to find a kickstand after all.   

Thanks for the congratulations from everybody. 

scru u and the kangaroo you hopped in on

Keep it up and you won't get invited into my new Ducati Darmah owners club.   [Dolph]

Thanks. Sounds good! If it's running well with the 32's and conical K&N's, it's been jetted accordingly if it's nice and crisp. Those conicals flow, so I'd agree, you'd likely need larger valves to make good use of 40's. Enjoy the character of the Darmah as is then. Had a 900 SS, so never rode a Darmah myself. My 600 SL steered like a bicycle compared to my SS.  ;)

As for steering, the wheelbase is pretty long too to match the head angle. With an SS it could be a struggle to change direction and you had to think ahead. The euro bar on this bike probably gives you a lot more leverage than the clip-ons on the SS. Tires today are also possibly greatly improved. Sport Demons on yours?

i'm just jealous.

mine isn't running.. bad coil.  no time.