http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUCATI-MONSTER-600-750-COMPLETE-DASH-GAUGES-TACH-SPEEDO-NEW-BOX-40620122b-/140663618750?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item20c0347cbe (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUCATI-MONSTER-600-750-COMPLETE-DASH-GAUGES-TACH-SPEEDO-NEW-BOX-40620122b-/140663618750?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item20c0347cbe)
This link is for a 2001 monster instrument cluster. I was wondering how well this would adapt to my 1999 M750 as I'm looking to add a Tach somehow. Anybody ever don't this swap before or have any other cheaper solutions?
If that is off an M600/750, then it will work but the gauge plugs are completely different so you'd have to source a pigtail off an '01 M600/750 and adapt it to your harness.
Good w/wiring?!? (somewhere in my electrical bits, I *may* have that very pigtail...)
A word of caution: the gauges off the 2001 M900 look identical BUT have a different # of impulses per revolution of the crankshaft (1 versus 2) so your tachometer would read at 1/2 speed. Do a little research before dropping $450 on this.
Also, if it is an M600/750 cluster from 2001, it's EXTREMELY rare. So be careful with it...
Thanks for the input, don't think I'm going to drop that much unless is was more "plug-n-play". Trying to find a dash off of a earlier M900, they came with Tachs but I haven't been lucky to find one yet. Still going to have to pay a penny or two for one if I do find one.
Quote from: Duck-Stew on January 26, 2012, 07:40:00 AM
If that is off an M600/750, then it will work but the gauge plugs are completely different so you'd have to source a pigtail off an '01 M600/750 and adapt it to your harness.
Good w/wiring?!? (somewhere in my electrical bits, I *may* have that very pigtail...)
A word of caution: the gauges off the 2001 M900 look identical BUT have a different # of impulses per revolution of the crankshaft (1 versus 2) so your tachometer would read at 1/2 speed. Do a little research before dropping $450 on this.
Also, if it is an M600/750 cluster from 2001, it's EXTREMELY rare. So be careful with it...
mechanical or electronic speedo?
Mechanical.
auction says it "RETAILS FOR $917.10" but my current price list shows $555. [roll]
Quote from: ducatiz on January 26, 2012, 09:38:23 AM
auction says it "RETAILS FOR $917.10" but my current price list shows $555. [roll]
A little too expensive for just adding a Tach, gotta keep looking for a cheaper alternative.
I've done this swap on mine, it is basically plug and play.
Here's what you need to know:
The speedo:
You will probably want to use your existing speedo, rather than using the one included here. Not only will the odometer be off, but the M900 has a different front tire size, so the gear ratio in the speedometer is wrong. Fortunately, the stock M750 speedo drops right in. Unfortunately, it doesn't come out of the stock housing without a fight. I think I ended up just cutting the front face of the housing with some tin snips so that I could get the speedo out. I think new speedos go for good money, though, so you could probably lower your net cost if you re-listed the M900 one that comes with the tach and new housing.
The tach:
I'm not sure about how the tach signal differs between an M900 and a M750. I do know, however, that there is a trim potentiometer that can be accessed on the back of the tachometer with a thin screwdriver to adjust the relationship between the needle movement and the frequency of the incoming pulses, and it has quite a large range of adjustment. I am fortunate in that I work in a research lab, so I have access to everything needed to easily calibrate it (Basically just a DC power supply giving it +12V and a signal generator to send the pulses). I imagine that with some ingenuity, a 12V battery, and a computer to output sine waves, you could figure something out, but it could potentially take some doing.
With that said, I bet that it would be pretty close out of the box. I seem to remember sending it two different signals, a signal that has 2 pulses spaced 90 degrees apart (in the engine rotation sense), and a signal that was just a plain sine wave at that frequency, and I don't remember the results being much different if at all. This is a vague recollection, though, so don't put too much weight on that.
As far as getting a better price, though, maybe just try to be patient and wait for a used one to show up on eBay. I'm giving myself a pat on the back right now for jumping on the used one that I found last year; it ended up being $105 shipped.
Btw, I took a video of the calibration results with the signal generator setup on mine (mostly just for my own future reference). It is a somewhat boring video, but it is me checking the calibration after I adjusted the trimpot. (Unfortunately I left out the part where I actually adjust the calibration on the back of the tach, though). Just thought I'd add it for anyone that might stumble upon this thread trying to do this swap. You might have to pause it to see clearly, but I show my sketch of the signal that I send to the tach as well as the frequency / RPM conversions that I use.
Ducati monster tach calibration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R82epqktg3M#)
Quote from: Duck-Stew on January 26, 2012, 07:40:00 AM
If that is off an M600/750, then it will work but the gauge plugs are completely different so you'd have to source a pigtail off an '01 M600/750 and adapt it to your harness.
Good w/wiring?!? (somewhere in my electrical bits, I *may* have that very pigtail...)
A word of caution: the gauges off the 2001 M900 look identical BUT have a different # of impulses per revolution of the crankshaft (1 versus 2) so your tachometer would read at 1/2 speed. Do a little research before dropping $450 on this.
Also, if it is an M600/750 cluster from 2001, it's EXTREMELY rare. So be careful with it...
Why so rare? they don't make them anymore. That means mine is going to break now and I won't be able to get another one.
(http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2011-06-26/1309091199821.jpg)
Quote from: bond0087 on January 26, 2012, 04:01:42 PM
The tach:
I'm not sure about how the tach signal differs between an M900 and a M750. I do know, however, that there is a trim potentiometer that can be accessed on the back of the tachometer with a thin screwdriver to adjust the relationship between the needle movement and the frequency of the incoming pulses, and it has quite a large range of adjustment. I am fortunate in that I work in a research lab, so I have access to everything needed to easily calibrate it (Basically just a DC power supply giving it +12V and a signal generator to send the pulses). I imagine that with some ingenuity, a 12V battery, and a computer to output sine waves, you could figure something out, but it could potentially take some doing.
With that said, I bet that it would be pretty close out of the box. I seem to remember sending it two different signals, a signal that has 2 pulses spaced 90 degrees apart (in the engine rotation sense), and a signal that was just a plain sine wave at that frequency, and I don't remember the results being much different if at all.
Quote from: D Paoli on January 27, 2012, 04:37:03 AM
Why so rare? they don't make them anymore. That means mine is going to break now and I won't be able to get another one.
The '01 M600/750 instrument cluster was a one year only availability, hence: rare.
I know where you could buy a spare for $450...
QuoteI'm not sure about how the tach signal differs between an M900 and a M750.
Injected motors (900i.e. Included) got 1 ignition (& injection) pulse from the timing layshaft drive gear which spins @ 1/2 crankshaft speed, so 1 pulse per 2 RPM.
Carburated motors (900, 750, 600 & Japanese spec 400's) got their ignition pulse from a single pick up (per cylinder) on the crankshaft so 1 pulse per 1 RPM.
Quote from: Duck-Stew on January 27, 2012, 09:10:32 AM
Injected motors (900i.e. Included) got 1 ignition (& injection) pulse from the timing layshaft drive gear which spins @ 1/2 crankshaft speed, so 1 pulse per 2 RPM.
Carburated motors (900, 750, 600 & Japanese spec 400's) got their ignition pulse from a single pick up (per cylinder) on the crankshaft so 1 pulse per 1 RPM.
In that case, then, the tach probably wouldn't be close to accurate out of the box (If it was coming from an M900i.e. and going to a carb'd M750). However, as shown in the video, it can be adjusted so that it is accurate for a carb'd bike's type of ignition signal.
Quote from: ducatiz on January 27, 2012, 05:18:47 AM
(http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2011-06-26/1309091199821.jpg)
Perhaps when it gets warm and I have some free time, I'll write up a tutorial that spells it out a little bit better. I've also been meaning to take an accelerometer and a portable daq system out to the parking lot one day and verify the accuracy against the actual engine speed (measured by the engine vibration)... If/when I get around to writing up a tutorial, I'll add that in. I would have done that when I did the swap, but I wasn't sure if anyone would be interested.
How about adding an aftermarket tachometer? I know mounting would be the tricky part but it would certainly be MUCH cheaper than trying to use Ducati OEM parts which we already know are mucho $$$
Quote from: Duck-Stew on January 27, 2012, 09:10:32 AM
...
Carburated motors (900, 750, 600 & Japanese spec 400's) got their ignition pulse from a single pick up (per cylinder) on the crankshaft so 1 pulse per 1 RPM.
Man you can find anything here.
I have a 1999 Carbed 2V M900. No tach. The Digital ones from Ducati don't seem to last and I have not found a replacement cluster that was a reasonible price. I picked up an induction style tach on closeout from bike bandit for under $25. I just needed to know how many pulses per revolution my bike puts out. Now that I know it is 1, I can go install it.
Thanks, Stew.
The only downside to the TTO Tach that I can see is that it also has an hour meter built in. While the bike is not running, it will display the pitifully low number of hours I ride my Monster.
Apparently mine has 2 pulses. No way is my idle set at 2100 RPM. Switched it to 2 pulse and my idle is at 1000-1100.
@ downsides to this unit that I see so far:
1. It's not lit, so I can'r see it at night. Not a problem for riding. Problem for testing. This will have to wait for tomorrow. Too many deer out to focus on a tach anyway.
2. It does not update smoothly. It is a static digital dispay, so it updated at set inetrvals. Every 1/2 second was too frantic. Every second seems better, but I need to try it on the road at steadier throttle than revving in the garage.
Jury is still out. I'm not racing the thing. I just want to know what my motor is doing. We'll se how it works out. It may be a post for the "alternatives to high priced Ducati parts" thread.
Doc
If I was looking to add a tach to a Monster that came out of the factory without one and planned on using the original housing I would consider (budget allowing) replacing the speedometer with a tach from these folk http://www.spatechnique.com/product_pages/page.cfm?cat=3 (http://www.spatechnique.com/product_pages/page.cfm?cat=3) or from http://spieglerusa.com/gauges-instruments/motogadget.html (http://spieglerusa.com/gauges-instruments/motogadget.html)
I'm going to continue researching the addition of an aftermarket tach for my Ducati. I'm thinking a handlebar-mounted electronic analog tach designed for a Harley might work nicely.
http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/custom-mini-tachometer-electronic-sportster-big-twin/part/BC-49-3374 (http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/custom-mini-tachometer-electronic-sportster-big-twin/part/BC-49-3374)
Yes, I know Harley parts are the devil, but why try to re-invent the wheel? This would mount to the handlbar, run the wire to one of the coils, supply 12V for the lighting, bingo! Tach ahoy!
Does the M900/750 have a dual-fire, or 'wasted spark', ignition system that provides a pulse from the coil every revolution of the engine or is it 'single fire' meaning the spark plug only fires every other revolution for the power stroke?
Quote from: J-Speed Inc. on February 07, 2012, 06:11:02 AM
http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/custom-mini-tachometer-electronic-sportster-big-twin/part/BC-49-3374 (http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/custom-mini-tachometer-electronic-sportster-big-twin/part/BC-49-3374)
Yes, I know Harley parts are the devil, but why try to re-invent the wheel? This would mount to the handlbar, run the wire to one of the coils, supply 12V for the lighting, bingo! Tach ahoy!
Does the M900/750 have a dual-fire, or 'wasted spark', ignition system that provides a pulse from the coil every revolution of the engine or is it 'single fire' meaning the spark plug only fires every other revolution for the power stroke?
yes on the wasted spark. the carb ignition is pretty simple, just flywheel lump passing magnets.
the harley tachs only go to 8000. just a thought, redline on my SS is 9000.
I've been looking for a 1"- 1 1/2" tach for my '98 M900 for quite some time. I really like the 2 1/2" one posted but don't want one that big. Any ideas? (that aren't $400 and are analog looking/ style).
I think 1 - 1.5" is going to be a tad small. But here is a big list of "affordable" tachs I've been looking through, hopefully we'll both find something eventually.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Department/Gauges-Accessories/Part-Type/Tachometer-Gauges/?Ns=Price%7cAsc&RC=100 (http://www.summitracing.com/search/Department/Gauges-Accessories/Part-Type/Tachometer-Gauges/?Ns=Price%7cAsc&RC=100)
Quote from: pslinux on February 22, 2012, 06:03:29 AM
I think 1 - 1.5" is going to be a tad small. But here is a big list of "affordable" tachs I've been looking through, hopefully we'll both find something eventually.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Department/Gauges-Accessories/Part-Type/Tachometer-Gauges/?Ns=Price%7cAsc&RC=100 (http://www.summitracing.com/search/Department/Gauges-Accessories/Part-Type/Tachometer-Gauges/?Ns=Price%7cAsc&RC=100)
most of those are for cars i.e. 4-6-8 cylinder. you have to make sure the unit is capable of handling a 2 cyle with wasted spark.
Correct, what would be the difference in L-2 vs. a V-2?
Quote from: pslinux on February 22, 2012, 11:15:41 AM
Correct, what would be the difference in L-2 vs. a V-2?
nothing. if it works for a harley, it will work for a carbed ducati, just bear in mind the harleys usually redline at about 7000-8000 so you don't find many that are over 8000 rpm
Must point out that running a carbie Duc past 8000rpm is pretty much a waste of time....
So as long as going over the max on the gauge doesn't damage it, an 8k one would be fine.
Quote from: Speeddog on February 22, 2012, 11:50:07 AM
Must point out that running a carbie Duc past 8000rpm is pretty much a waste of time....
So as long as going over the max on the gauge doesn't damage it, an 8k one would be fine.
depends on your gearing and ratios.. ;D
and if you have the flywheel and rods balanced... ;D
It's a good thing I found this so I don't have to make a new thread. I just got a motogadget and it says the rpm wire connects to the negative side of one coil. I'm assuming that means the black wire on the 3 wire plug on one of the igniter boxes, right ? OOps, forgot to say '99 carb 750.
I'm not positive on the exact colors of the wires going into the ignition module off the top of my head, but the wire that I would use is the one that the OEM tach would use for a signal, which does trace back to the negative side of one coil. Even though your instrument cluster doesn't have a tach, Ducati still runs a wire for the tach signal up to your instrument cluster (or at least they did on my 2000 carb 750).
If my wiring diagram is correct, you should have a white/blue wire that goes to your instrument cluster, ending at pin J of the circular connector (if you look really close at the connectors in good light you should be able to see the tiny letters, I'm not sure if it is on both the female/male side, but it's definitely on at least one). Hopefully that wire is there and it works out, because it's always nice to not have to add another wire or splice to the ignition system wiring.
PS: Hi from a fellow Hoosier!
Thank you but no dice. Pin J goes to the side stand warning light :-(. I compared prints and on the 2000 models that is correct. I do have it narrowed down to two wires going off of that print. In the motoscope instructions it says negative side of one coil and since the 2k print does in fact go to the igniter box I was looking in the right place. But though, the 2k print shows the tach lead coming from the hot side and if I do that I wreck a $500 dash. Thanks for the help. At least now I know I'm headed in the right direction.
Doh! I had no idea that the 99 and 2000 m750 wiring was different; sorry for the misinformation. You probably already have a wiring diagram to work with for your bike, but if not (or you want a nice color one), I scanned in the diagram from my Haynes manual. (The document has 2 wiring diagrams, the one for the 99 750 is on the right I believe.) http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?uqlkqp12jr8j93f (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?uqlkqp12jr8j93f)
Correction!! The wire I questioned on the 2000 model print is a coil negative. It's marked on the bottom of the coil. Same as mine but I still have to run my own wire to it.
How did the Biker's Choice Mini Tach work out?
Doc
Oh, and a correction to the "mine must have 2 pulses" thing. I was wrong. [bang] Stew was right. [thumbsup]
I re-calibrated the tach today after a ride where I realized that my bike was probably not revving at 2600 at 80 MPH.
Quote from: Doc on April 16, 2012, 06:24:57 PM
Oh, and a correction to the "mine must have 2 pulses" thing. I was wrong. [bang] Stew was right. [thumbsup]
I re-calibrated the tach today after a ride where I realized that my bike was probably not revving at 2600 at 80 MPH.
Thanks for that... It was puzzling to think I could've
ever been wrong. (<-- SARCASM)
(seriously... glad it's fixed!)
Quote from: Doc on April 16, 2012, 06:24:57 PM
I re-calibrated the tach today after a ride where I realized that my bike was probably not revving at 2600 at 80 MPH.
So your idle
is set at 2100?
Not anymore.
OK, A recap for anyone researching the archives for digital tach installation:
I have a 1999 carbed 2V M900. No tachometer from the factory (WTF?!). I picked up a digital induction-style tach on closeout from bike bandit for under $25.
Installation was as easy as wrapping a wire around a coil wire, choosing 2 options on a setup menu, and sticking the tach unit to my bar clamp. Setup of the tach was to set it for slow readout updates (1/second) and to read 1 pulse per revolution (for 2V 900 Monsters).
It works fine and appears to be fairly accurate. It looks pretty good centered on the bar clamp. However, that puts it out of my field of vision. I plan to make a bracket and move it to the top-right side of the gauge cluster. One of the fairing screws is right behind it and it should not be hard to fabricate something. It does not update smoothly. It is a digital numerical display, so it updates at set intervals. Every 1/2 second was too frantic. Every second is much better. While riding, this setting does not show rapidly changing numbers.
3 minor downsides to this unit that I see so far:
1. It's not lit, so I can't see it at night. Not a problem for general riding.
2. I would prefer an analog readout, but this is not bad.
3. This the TTO Tach also has an hour meter built in. While the bike is not running, it will display the pitifully low number of hours I ride my Monster.
Overall it works as expected.
I have a 2000 M900IE (fuel injected). Im trying to adapt a DP Instrument Panel Kit for 600/750/900 Monsters up to 1999 to it. The pins pretty much line up perfect Except the tach. The DP kit tach has a separate green wire running of it. If you try and run this wire to CPU pin it doesn't work. If you run the wire to a coil terminal it works BUT runs at twice engine speed, ie 2000rpm instead of 1000 rpm. There are 3 brass screws in the back of the tach body, are they for adjustment? How can I get tach to read correctly
Quote from: Ripple Rock on September 04, 2015, 09:50:33 AM
I have a 2000 M900IE (fuel injected). Im trying to adapt a DP Instrument Panel Kit for 600/750/900 Monsters up to 1999 to it. The pins pretty much line up perfect Except the tach. The DP kit tach has a separate green wire running of it. If you try and run this wire to CPU pin it doesn't work. If you run the wire to a coil terminal it works BUT runs at twice engine speed, ie 2000rpm instead of 1000 rpm. There are 3 brass screws in the back of the tach body, are they for adjustment? How can I get tach to read correctly
I don't know about the three screws, but the number of pulses are wrong. I don't think you'll get that kit to work on an efi bike.