Ducati Monster Forum

I'm almost as avid a gun enthusiast as a MC enthusiast. I will now ask the hivemind for their input (could be dangerous but here it goes). After I finish getting my rim fixed and pay off the CC for the new Suomy Spec1r extreme I am getting a new firearm. I have it narrowed down to these choices.

Glock 20  Full size 10mm goodness in the reliable Glock package. I already have the G29 (subcompact 10mm) and it's a hoot. About 525 bucks

Kimber Eclipse II 10mm  Yes I like 10mm. It has ballistics similar to the .41 magnum. I reload so the expense of ammo is less of a concern. I already have a few hundred empty cases to start with. The ballistic's are for the real 10mm loads and not the neutered FBI loads. Close to a grand.

Polish Tantal or other 5.45 cal. AK. I love AK's and the 5.45 ammo is some of the only cheap centerfire rifle ammo available these days. Prefer a fixed stock but would take a side folder if that's all I could find. Should be able to find one for 500-750 bucks.

An Israeli Golani Galil in 5.56   I would dearly love one in .308 but they are hard to find and very expensive. The 5.56 models can be had for about 850. They are a heavy Israeli version of the AK with a few improvements and let's face it...the IDF are badasses.They also have 35 round mags. ;D

CETME  Spanish made version of the G3/HK91. A friend of mine has one and really wants me to get one for some reason. I'm not super keen on the idea but it is a pretty OK firearm. They are .308 cal. and can be picked up for about 800 bucks.

The last pistol I bought was  the G29. It's my bike riding pistol. :o. After we saw a few crack deals going down on the inner city parts of the trail system we ride on (suburbs to the city center) my wife quit laughing at me for packing heat. An attempted break in at our house really got her to support the gun habit.

You'd probably get a knowledgeable answer on a gun board.  [thumbsup]

Youll get some great replies here as well.

If you like the 10mm, have you looked at the Colt Delta Elite?  Theres also a sweet Dan Wesson worth looking into. 

That 29 is a nice little hand cannon! 

Here is my take on each of your choices:

Glock 20 -- if you already have the compact version, why get the full size? 

Kimber Eclipse II --  if you are looking for a 1911 style, this is one of the better makes.  the 10mm makes the grip MUCH longer tho, so you lose the traditional ergos of the grip (not by much, but it would throw me off, having shot 1911s for ages)

Polish Tantal or other 5.45 cal. AK. -- i think you are wrong about 5.45 being cheap, moreover the magazines are far more expensive.  I would stick to the 7.62x39 AKs.  My spot check on ammo prices shows milsurp 5.45 going for $179 per 1000 rounds but new production 7.62 for $199 per 1000.  I always choose new production if i can find it.  Combloc milsurp is iffy (although the newer stuff might be better quality overall)

An Israeli Golani Galil in 5.56   the 5.56 version you're talking about is a remake, I believe.  They used R4 parts kits (demils) with a new barrel and a new receiver with Israeli markings and the left-side safety. They are not bad, but a real Galili rifle will run you around 2500-3000 -- the IMI manufactured ones.  They have a copycat stock as well made from plastic instead of aluminum.  My price on those remakes is $700.

CETME  Spanish made version of the G3/HK91.  Don't.  There is nothing wrong with the CETME, but ALL of the models sold here are parts kits remakes by Century.  Google "angry beavers" and CETME and you'll see what the general public think of them.  Actually, google "angry beavers" and any make of rifle and you'll get the picture. 

Now, if you can find a CETME built by ARS, THAT is a good gun, but he only made a few dozen and they run around 2500. 

If you REALLY want a pistol, why not get something completely differnet.  Plenty of 10mm around if you like that so much.  Springfield's Omega 10 was an awesome gun -- a linkless 1911 in 10mm.  Very popular for a while.

Rifle-wise, I am a big fan of the AK's, but prefer them in 7.62.  Galilis are nice, but heavier (as they used a milled receiver just like the Valmet).  if you like the Galils, you can find Valmet M76 and M72s for less money than the Galils, but magazines are hard to find (you can convert Galil magazines with a dremel, some smiths know how to do it, it is a no brainer).  I have a couple of Valmets and find them much better overall than the Galilis I fielded (although, the former were commercial samples and the latter were mil issue...)

If you like the CETME, shop around and get a G3.  More money, but you'll be happier and the mags are cheaper.  Or a FAL.  Same round, mags are dirt cheap and much easier to get parts for.

I saw a neat revolver this weekend.  The Taurus Judge.  It's chambered for .45 long colt or .410 shotgun shells.

it's a copy of the BFR

I've seen those too, and I am not impressed honestly.  45 LC is a weak cartridge.  has about half the power of 45 ACP.

a 410 revolver is a great idea, except that the cylinder has to be at least 2.5 " long !! because of the length of the shells.  great, but makes the revolver a big pain.

BFR:
(http://www.magnumresearch.com/FAQ_BFRRevolver.asp)

Judge:
(http://www.gunsandammomag.com/blog/GAjudgeb_071807A.jpg)

I had never heard of the BFR.  It does seem like a pain but I think there's something cool about having a pistol that you can say fires shotgun shells.

I'll never get one just because I'd never be able to shoot it using the .410 shells.  No ranges around me allow shotguns unless they're firing slugs or unless you're shooting at clay pigeons. 

use the 410 slugs..  which are about half as powerful as a 44 magnum.. same projectile tho...

i like Kimbers - just be wary that it might not run perfect out of the box.  After a bunch of rounds and the deletion of the ambi safety, my Kimber is my favorite gun. Runs perfectly now.

So that's a neat idea.

I've got more guns than bikes, but maybe number is not the correct measure.  Perhaps by weight?

I had a G20 when they were first released.  Loved it.

I switched to the .40 S&W Glocks, a bit tentatively at first.  They're not the same cannon that the 10mm is, and there's plenty of spirited debate about the relative merits of the 10mm and the .40 S&W.  But the subcompact .40 (the G27) is a damn impressive combo of small size and punch.  Very very easy to carry.

I can't comment specifically about the other firearms that you list, except to say that:

1) You ought to have and enjoy at least one each of a handgun, a scoped rifle, a tactical rifle, and a shotgun.
2) For a true hand cannon, try to find one of these (sadly discontinued) beauties in .308.  Holy crap are they accurate!  http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Single-Shot-Pistols/Magnum_Lone_Eagle.htm (http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Single-Shot-Pistols/Magnum_Lone_Eagle.htm)
3) Everyone needs a rimfire or two.  I've been thinking off and on about adding a .17 HMR to my stable.

+1 on having more guns than bikes.  [laugh]

The Glocks drown me in a large bucket of ennui.  :-\

I'm also a fan of the 10mm, so the Kimber sounds like a good choice to me. I've had several Kimbers and loved every one.

I would avoid the Delta Elite. Any one you get will have had it's best years used by someone else. I found that mine was getting beaten up in the frame stops, etc.

+1 on the rimfire. .22s are just great for an afternoon of plinking and hanging out.

If you want something new and fun, you could build a customized tactical rifle or a good clocktower gun....

ouch...

 ???

Not suggesting that he's never had something like that. Just saying that building a custom gun could be fun.

I'd like to have one of the 50 cal. sniper rifles I saw on Ultimate Weapons on TV.

Thompson Center encore 30/30

with red dot of course.

40 lbs of rifle and shooting it costs $2 per round. 

i know a couple of guys who have them, they shoot them about once every 2-3 years now.  too expensive unless you own an ammo factory.

i guess i can see the attraction, but if i was going to spend 10k on a gun, i'd get one of those korean war era howitzers..  fires 3 " shells.

I always say "buy what you want" -- but go shoot it first if at all possible -- even if it costs you money.  Most shops w/range will apply funds to purchase. I've bought too many guns and went and fired 50 rounds through and never shot again because I didn't like. 

My choices are as follows for carry pistols: 

Glock 27 (40S&W) -- have three.  I've put tens of thousands of rounds through them with only one misfire (stovepipe) on the first clip years ago.  I can't ask for more from a gun.  Not super nice though to shoot.  Super easy to carry and conceal.

ParaOrd LDA singlestack Companion (.45ACP).  I used to shoot at the range with Phoenix PD and after many officers had shot mine, they all ended up buying one for their off-duty gun. Incredibly fantastic gun to shoot.  Most were Glock enthusiasts but not anymore. Easy carry but not as ding resistant as a Glock. I'd give up every single Glock and replace with these -- but they are expensive.

Iver Johnson Super Enforcer PP30 (30 carbine). Manufactured many years ago usually for prison riot duty or military use.  M1 carbine with 9" barrel and 17" overall length with walnut stock and handguard and < 4lbs.  Pretty easy to shoot one-handed or two. Nicely balanced.  Moderately easy to conceal under lightweight jacket.  Legal.  Most gun ranges will ask you to put it away if you bring it though.  Nobody will mess with you if you pull it out. Throws nice "flames". LOUD. Everyone will assume you rob banks for a living when you do get a chance to shoot it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The key word is ..............Sniper !  One shot.  One kill.

ROFLMAO
 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

and 95% of people couldn't hit a tin can with a 22 at 20 feet.

accuracy is nothing unless you are experienced.

and yes, i have fielded a 50 bmg anti materiel rifle.

I don't know if you have a purpose in mind, but read some of this:

The Tale of Ol' Dirty. A Texas Legend. (Update:14,320 rounds fired without cleaning) (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68486)

it's about a guy's FAL rifle that he hasn't cleaned -- and has put almost 15,000 rounds through it.  i would never abuse my guns this much, but jeebus, that is beyond the service life by far and still accurate.

certainly would make Dieudonne Saive proud.

Get yourself a nice 4" Colt Python 357 in blue  ;) and call it a day.
It's the most beautiful revolver ever made. [thumbsup]

exc they are no longer made.

All of the shops around me are selling .50 BMG rounds @ $50 for a box of 10

The same shops each have one Barret Model 82A1/M107 selling for just shy of $9,000 with no optics.  No thanks

I'm personally holding out for an FNH SCAR Heavy and a Sig Sauer P226 Combat

for $5/round it better give me a reach-around as it goes out the barrel.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             With the right Scope and Spotter, I believe this rifle will take someone out up to at least a mile.

The longest range publicly recorded for a sniper kill currently stands at 2,430 metres (2,657 yd, or 1.51 miles).  And, yep, it was using the .50 BMG.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper#Range (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper#Range)

Almost a 5 second flight time!

That takes a truly perfect convergence of equipment, conditions, and shooter. 

you can still get them on the secondary gun market, at a premium price.

scope and spotter?  how about someone who can shoot it?

you miss my point.

you can have the most accurate gun in the world.  and it takes lots of practice, experience, and the right ammo to "take someone out" a mile away.

that's why the DOD spends 100 millions on our military ammo, so each round is identical to the previous one.

practice all you want on ammo X, once you start shooting ammo Y, your impact point will be off.

I spent almost 2 years as a DM, trust me, I know!




...and Hathcock was using an M14 with 1960s glass and no spotter.  I consider him a far superior sharpshooter.

"I spent almost 2 years as a DM, trust me, I know!"

a Dungeon Master?      8)

wiseass nerd!

kala sa'ar, which in USA is a Designated Marksman.

Only the commies called them snipers.

Agree.  His fieldcraft was extraordinary, too.

Hathcock was amazing but didn't he make that record shot with a .50 machine gun?

M14 and M70 in 30-06.  he did use the mg, but not for long range sharpshooter.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

I'm pretty sure the record was with the mg.  This is from wikipedia:

In 1967, Hathcock set the record for the 20th century's longest combat kill with a Browning M2 .50 BMG machine gun mounting a telescopic sight. The distance was 2,286 meters or 1.42 miles. Hathcock was one of several individuals to utilize the Browning M2 machine gun in the sniping role. This success led to the adoption of the .50 BMG cartridge as a viable anti-personnel and anti-equipment sniper round. Sniper rifles have since been designed around and chambered in this caliber.

And I read the same in the Marine Sniper book by Charles Henderson.

Ouch   ;) 

looks like that was the gun, i am surprised, the Ma Deuce is not known for its accuracty, Unertl scope notwithstanding.

that really puts the feat into perspective then -- i would attribute it more to luck than pure skill since the LC 50bmg rounds of that time were not known for their pinpoint accuracy.

Just goes to show that the White Feather was THE MAN!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I don't call that sharpshooting...I call that a 1 in a 1,000,000 lucky shoot .

why do you always add spaces to your posts?  Just curious..

Hathcock's record was pretty impressive overall, I just don't >personally< think taking a potshot with an M2 can be chalked up to sharpshooter skills solely.

how do you shoulder an M2? how do you adjust for windage?  etc.. they have a very crude trigger and the bases are not solid. 

of course it has the range, but the accuracy??

(http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/m2_machine-gun.jpg)

Is everyone assuming that he only fired 1 round?

He may have had a scope mounted to it

and he may have hit a dewd at 1.4 miles

but he also may have fired 100rounds

is ATV still marksmanship?

precisely my point, but the reports call it a sharpshooter hit not spray n pray.

I don't mean full auto

When I heard this story it was related to me that he was shooting at some poor sucker on the other side of a valley

dewd was going up one side from the valley floor and he was on top of the other valley wall with his scope mounted M-2

it was also related he was one rounding it

but the question is

How many shots did it take?

sure he wasn't burning a belt

but how many singles did he send downrange before charlie rolled back to the bottom of the hill?

Not trying to weigh in on whether Hathcock pulled that kill off in one shot or not, but there was a guy or two that I worked with in Afghanistan who could pull off a single well aimed, called shot, with a scope mounted M2 at pretty extreme distances.

shouldered?  [evil]

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   I add spaces to allow one's brain to stop momentarily to consider what has been said and to prepare or put a little more emphasis on what I'm about to say without using " "s

Oh no, not shouldered.  The weapon was pintle mounted to the gun truck, but was nice and stable.  We had our DM pulled out from our crew four a week so that they could monitor/target (you say tomato, I say...) another issue.  Anyhow, the only shoulder fired weapons we had at the time had quite short barrels...

I had a Kahr 40 cal Sub compact in my hand yesterday.

It felt so nice.

Almost bought it.

The story is it was a young boy on a bike with carrying a bunch of rifles.  Hathcock didn't want to shoot him so shot the boys bike instead.  When the boy then went for a rifle Hathcock shot him.  Everything I've read said it was just those 2 shots.

Shame.  They could have just called in a couple of Sandy's and napalmed his ass.   [evil]

Hmm, sandies......

(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Zx3JiLh4pO2zAM:http://www.american-trading.com/food/images/snacks/sandies.jpg)