Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: Howley on February 11, 2012, 04:15:31 AM

Title: suddenly not starting... DIAGNOSED!
Post by: Howley on February 11, 2012, 04:15:31 AM
So I did some work on the tank this morning and after getting it back together, I tried to start it. It cranked over, but the it was slowing down a bit and I didn't want to kill the battery. That's cool, I wasn't worried just figured it needed time to get the fuel going.
Jump to the afternoon, I came back to try it again as I'd had it on the battery tender a few hours. This time it turned over about twice, then the starter motor just whirred, now it just clicks at the solenoid. What changed in those two hours?

I'm yet to run any tests to work it out. I think its about time I up-rated the cables.

Title: Re: suddenly not starting...
Post by: ducpainter on February 11, 2012, 04:29:28 AM
Sounds like a bad connection.

Title: Re: suddenly not starting... sort of diagnosed.
Post by: Howley on February 11, 2012, 06:59:39 PM
So I tried it this morning. It is actually turning the motor, but hardly at all. I jumped from the battery directly to the starter and it was exactly the same, which leads me to believe something is up with the starter.
Any suggestions on what could cause the starter to suddenly pack it in?
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... sort of diagnosed.
Post by: corey on February 11, 2012, 07:11:14 PM
not sure how old the bike is, but maybe age? wear and tear?
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... sort of diagnosed.
Post by: Thermite on February 12, 2012, 03:48:45 AM
How old is the battery?
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... sort of diagnosed.
Post by: Howley on February 12, 2012, 03:56:20 AM
Yeah sorry. It's a '94 M900. Battery is probably 2.5 years old, not much use out of it in that time. I read 12.5V across the terminals with the engine off.
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... sort of diagnosed.
Post by: ducpainter on February 12, 2012, 04:22:37 AM
Testing the starter with the same battery doesn't really prove anything other than your connections  probably are OK.

Do you have access to another known good battery you can test the starter with?
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... sort of diagnosed.
Post by: Howley on February 12, 2012, 05:54:11 AM
Yeah I was thinking the same. I'll have to try it with my car battery.
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... sort of diagnosed.
Post by: corey on February 12, 2012, 08:36:11 AM
94 was what, 18 years ago? might be time to grab a new starter even if this one isn't entirely dead, rather than get stranded when it DOES go, right?
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... sort of diagnosed.
Post by: Howley on February 12, 2012, 02:27:16 PM
I might end up doing that. What bikes have compatible starters? Is guess any 2v prior to the 696?
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... sort of diagnosed.
Post by: Speeddog on February 12, 2012, 06:03:33 PM
Quote from: Howley on February 12, 2012, 02:27:16 PM
I might end up doing that. What bikes have compatible starters? Is guess any 2v prior to the 696?

AFAIK, starters were pretty much the same for a long while, up until the (I think) 1100 when ratios changed.

But, need more confirmation.
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... sort of diagnosed.
Post by: ducpainter on February 13, 2012, 03:49:10 AM
Quote from: Speeddog on February 12, 2012, 06:03:33 PM
AFAIK, starters were pretty much the same for a long while, up until the (I think) 1100 when ratios changed.

But, need more confirmation.
I think you're right.

I think the only difference is the drive gear.
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... sort of diagnosed.
Post by: Real Recognize Real on February 13, 2012, 08:47:18 AM
Quote from: Howley on February 12, 2012, 02:27:16 PM
I might end up doing that. What bikes have compatible starters? Is guess any 2v prior to the 696?

I have a '94 M900 and had to replace my starter last year. If you decide to go this route, check out this vendor:

http://www.stockers.com/index.php?dt=DS-101N (http://www.stockers.com/index.php?dt=DS-101N)

I ordered from them and it was the best price I found - I'm not affiliated with them at all.

GL
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... sort of diagnosed.
Post by: Howley on February 13, 2012, 08:15:11 PM
Thanks for the link!
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... sort of diagnosed.
Post by: Howley on February 13, 2012, 09:55:18 PM
Update. I tried it out with my car battery and it was exactly the same. Time to pull the starter motor by the looks of it. It's a pin in the ass because I need to do the stator coil too, but I can't bloody find one.
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... sort of diagnosed.
Post by: Real Recognize Real on February 14, 2012, 04:15:24 AM
Quote from: Howley on February 13, 2012, 09:55:18 PM
Update. I tried it out with my car battery and it was exactly the same. Time to pull the starter motor by the looks of it. It's a pin in the ass because I need to do the stator coil too, but I can't bloody find one.

Stators:

http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/ (http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/)

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/ (http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/)
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... sort of diagnosed.
Post by: ducpainter on February 14, 2012, 04:20:53 AM
He'd have to send his stator to Rick's for rebuilding.

Bike would be down quite a while.
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... sort of diagnosed.
Post by: Howley on February 15, 2012, 01:00:18 AM
Yeah, Especially from Australia. I thought they'd come up second hand a bit more often than they do.
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... sort of diagnosed.
Post by: Real Recognize Real on February 15, 2012, 07:33:07 AM
Quote from: Howley on February 15, 2012, 01:00:18 AM
Yeah, Especially from Australia. I thought they'd come up second hand a bit more often than they do.

That throws a small stone in the game then. Electrex sells new units so there's no need to swap cores...

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eelectrexworld%2eco%2euk%2facatalog%2fOnline_Catalogue_Stator_Kits_424%2ehtml&WD=ducati&PN=G93%2ehtml%23aG93#aG93 (http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2eelectrexworld%2eco%2euk%2facatalog%2fOnline_Catalogue_Stator_Kits_424%2ehtml&WD=ducati&PN=G93%2ehtml%23aG93#aG93)
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... DIAGNOSED!
Post by: Howley on February 16, 2012, 05:05:33 AM
Well I finally got around to pulling the starter motor. Took the first bolt out of the back at smoke came out. Pulled the back and the inside was BLACK! Not your regular fried black, oil black. I could literally pour oil out of it. Looks like the seal has gone, it also explains where my oil is going.

Would you guys say that with good clean and a rebuild kit (new bearings, orings, brushes, bushings etc) it'll all be fine?

Another plus, I checked the stator and it tested ok too. Looks like there is another reason why my battery isn't charging.
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... DIAGNOSED!
Post by: Speeddog on February 16, 2012, 07:42:30 AM
Not sure of the availability of the rebuild parts, but one would think a starter/electric motor rebuild place would have or could get it.

I'd say give it a go.
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... DIAGNOSED!
Post by: ducpainter on February 16, 2012, 01:29:52 PM
Rebuild parts...http://www.stockers.com/index.php?dt=RBK-69 (http://www.stockers.com/index.php?dt=RBK-69)

It's listed for '00-'02, but I'm not aware of any differences in the starters. I might be wrong so you might want to do more research.

They also have parts listed for Denso starters that might fit the bill...http://www.stockers.com/index.php?br=Denso+Repair+Parts (http://www.stockers.com/index.php?br=Denso+Repair+Parts)

...as well as an aftermarket starter...http://www.stockers.com/index.php?br=Ducati+Motorcycle (http://www.stockers.com/index.php?br=Ducati+Motorcycle)
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... DIAGNOSED!
Post by: Howley on February 17, 2012, 05:31:38 PM
Ordered a new starter from stockers. I figured by the time I paid for degreaser and factored in my time I'd be better off.
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... DIAGNOSED!
Post by: ducpainter on February 17, 2012, 06:20:40 PM
Quote from: Howley on February 17, 2012, 05:31:38 PM
Ordered a new starter from stockers. I figured by the time I paid for degreaser and factored in my time I'd be better off.
IMHO...wise choice.

Hope it works out long run.... [thumbsup]
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... DIAGNOSED!
Post by: Howley on March 12, 2012, 11:27:39 PM
Bit of an update. The starter from stockers arrived, ands its actually a genuine Denso unit not an aftermarket replacement. Put it in today and after not running for over a month I thought I'd just tooouuuch the starter for a fraction of a second to see if it turns. Turned so well that it started! Hooray!
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... DIAGNOSED!
Post by: bigiain on March 13, 2012, 01:02:50 AM
Quote from: Howley on February 16, 2012, 05:05:33 AM
Well I finally got around to pulling the starter motor. Took the first bolt out of the back at smoke came out. Pulled the back and the inside was BLACK! Not your regular fried black, oil black. I could literally pour oil out of it. Looks like the seal has gone, it also explains where my oil is going.=

Weird - the same thing happened to MMicks ST4 while Joe (DesmoQuattro) was in town...

If you were just gonna throw out the old starter bits, wanna throw them this way?

big
Title: Re: suddenly not starting... DIAGNOSED!
Post by: Howley on March 13, 2012, 08:34:57 PM
Hey big I'm going to hang onto the bits that aren't shagged for spares.