Backround story:
I've been pretty active my whole life (I'm 28). Played sports throughout school and pretty active after that (snowboarded professionally for a few years). I have had my share of injury's and have a pretty good idea of when something is seriously fubared in my body. My left shoulder has been make the beast with two backsed for years now, since my 2nd year of H.S. It has always been weaker than my right, but whenever I injure it it always heals back to where it was before. It might take some time, a good couple of months of taking it easy, but it always felt the 'same-ish' eventually. I have gone to the Doctor about it in the past and have been told it's just the rotator cuff, doesn't need surgery. (I've always tried to stay away from surgery)
About 9 months ago I took a really hard hit into the boards playing ice hockey. Since then my left shoulder hasn't been the same. Initially the pain was worse than it is now, but not by much. I can barely lift 20lbs over my head with my left arm (I can do 4 sets of 12 with a 65 lb dumbbell with my right). I continue to play hockey (but take it way easy), but no longer lift weights (nothing at all, can't even do bicep curls without intense shoulder pain).
As far as going to the Doctor, I currently don't have health insurance. I quit my job last year and started working for myself. Health Insurance was something I was going to get once my company was up and running fairly well, there were other 'priorities' that were higher [roll]. I am currently shopping for health insurance.
My main question is this: how many of you have had shoulder surgery, rotator cuff and ligament repair? How long did the rehab last? how long before you felt 100%? Any general thoughts re: this?
My brother and Brother-in-law both recently have had shoulder surgery. They both feel really good about it. My brother is very active, my Brother-in-law isn't. It took my brother less time to heal, but my brother-in-law is kinda of a ninny(I mean that in a good way) when it comes to pain and such, so I don't know if that is a good comparison.
I haven't had a good night's sleep this year at all. My shoulder 'healed' (pain went down) a bit initially, but no progress has been made since. My bed looks like a giant newborn sleep there. I have pillows all around/under me to make sure I don't move in the night [laugh]. It's kinda silly, but it is the only way i can fall asleep :-\
Another question I have for any experts out there is what if I wait till the end of summer to get this done? (that's assuming I need surgery) What are the consequences? I'd like to finish out the hockey season, but not at the expense of long term damage.
I had my rotator cuff just about completely rebuilt (Dr. had to go in, stitch a bunch of stuff back together, etc., etc). I'm still not completely sure what all he did in there, but I know it's just like new. It probably took a good 6 months for me to regain complete motion, and there are still a few things that hurt it (reaching backwards in certain directions, etc.). there was quite a bit of rehab involved in getting back to normal...which is a necessity. If you don't stretch it and whatnot, it'll never get back to normal (as my good friend has found out...he skipped the 2-3 months of rehab because he "didn't need it" [roll]).
all and all, you're looking at a month after the surgery of little to no movement, a month or 2 of some movement, but no real usefulness, and then rehab for another 2-3 months...and you'll be just like new again.
it's great being back to normal....though there is still some elevated risk of re-injury. I'm not supposed to ever swim by myself again (cause swiming motion is where my shoulder pops out the most easily from socket).
I'm assuming your surgery was all scoped?
I had a VRS done once
Had my right shoulder scoped a few years back. I was 28 or so. The doc stapled down 2 large tears in the labrum, tightened the supraspinatus tendon, shaved the acromion, cleaned up some debris, etc.
Recovery was:
6 weeks in sling [bang]
2 more weeks 'til I could drink a beer or operate a light switch
4 more weeks and I was mountain biking (and wrecking) with my physical therapist [evil]
total = 12 weeks 'til back to normal life.
It hurt for another year afterwards, but didn't impair my ability to do fun stuff. Now it's nice and tight and strong.
Good luck on yours.
Quote from: Kaveh on June 23, 2008, 04:03:38 PM
I'm assuming your surgery was all scoped?
yeah, they scoped it.
BTW---the longer you wait, the more scar tissue you'll have built up in there
When I saw, "Shoulder surgey," I thought this was a thread on a Russian hockey player who likes shoulder checking! [laugh]
On topic: I've never had shoulder surgery. :P
I had my right shoulder scoped for a torn rotator cuff accoring to the radiologist reading of my MRI. I was into Body Building at the time and didn't want to have surgery. I was 50 years old and never had had any surgery where I had to be put under. I went to 6 different orthopaedists hoping one would tell me that I could lift lighter and not need siugery. The tear was not very long ,I forget how many mms it was but when you looked at the MRI film you could see a V in the cuff. I went to those 6 different Orthopaedists before I was convinced that I was going to have to have it worked on. The last Doctor I saw convinced me and also he had the best " bedside manner " of any I had talked to.
Well the crazy thing was, after I woke up in recovery he told me he couldn't find a tear. My whole surgery was video taped and the Doctor narrated it as he worked and he did do a shoulder decompression which was a result of a calcification from a broken collar bone from an old Moto Cross accident. I went through several weeks of rehab for this and it still bothered me for years when I'd do something with my right hand overhead.
This may not have helped a whole lot since your's sounds for sure a torn rotator cuff. I say bite the bullet as soon as possible w/ a Doc w/ a good reputation. In 2000 my operation w/ a scope was $3500 plus the cost of rehab was about $75 a visit, 2 or 3 times a week. Not trying to freak you out ...just tring to give you some idea what it was 8 years ago. I would work real hard on getting some Health Insurance. I wrecked my #1 S4Rs in April of this year . I ran into a ditch and later had to have minor Surgery and then major Surgery and my medical bills are in the $70,000 range and I'm back to riding. I wish you all the best but putting it off will only make it worse.
I had it done arthroscopically to repair a torn labrum and shave down a bone spur. Rehab was a pain but two years later it's as good as new... my only recommendation is to get the best shoulder specialist you can find. I went and got mine done by the same guy who does shoulder surgery for the NY Jets... pro sports teams don't screw around with stuff like that.
Quote from: Magnus on June 23, 2008, 08:21:49 PM
I had it done arthroscopically to repair a torn labrum and shave down a bone spur. Rehab was a pain but two years later it's as good as new... my only recommendation is to get the best shoulder specialist you can find. I went and got mine done by the same guy who does shoulder surgery for the NY Jets... pro sports teams don't screw around with stuff like that.
I know that the doctor that did Alex Smith's Shoulder (QB for the SF 49ers) is part of the Blue cross/shield group here in the bay. That's who did my brother's surgery. My brother also had a bone spur as well as rotator cuff, it was outpatient surgery and the total bill was something around 35k [roll]
It's funny, I've had health insurance on and off ever since I moved out of my parent's house when i was 18. Most of the time I've had some sort of coverage, the few times I've had windows where I don't have health coverage I seem to need it, all the other times I almost never use it. Last time I didn't have health insurance I broke my foot.
Quote from: Manny on June 23, 2008, 06:09:59 PM
Had my right shoulder scoped a few years back. I was 28 or so. The doc stapled down 2 large tears in the labrum, tightened the supraspinatus tendon, shaved the acromion, cleaned up some debris, etc.
Recovery was:
6 weeks in sling [bang]
2 more weeks 'til I could drink a beer or operate a light switch
4 more weeks and I was mountain biking (and wrecking) with my physical therapist [evil]
total = 12 weeks 'til back to normal life.
It hurt for another year afterwards, but didn't impair my ability to do fun stuff. Now it's nice and tight and strong.
Good luck on yours.
Thanks for the feedback, do you remember how much it cost?
Quote from: Magnus on June 23, 2008, 08:21:49 PM
I had it done arthroscopically to repair a torn labrum and shave down a bone spur. Rehab was a pain but two years later it's as good as new... my only recommendation is to get the best shoulder specialist you can find. I went and got mine done by the same guy who does shoulder surgery for the NY Jets... pro sports teams don't screw around with stuff like that.
BTW, how long did the rehab process take and how long before you felt "good enough" to be active again?
Quote from: Kaveh on June 23, 2008, 08:36:05 PM
Thanks for the feedback, do you remember how much it cost?
Work comp.
Sorry to hear about the issue, best of luck getting it sorted. [thumbsup]
I have had my left shoulder operated on not once, but two times.
Procedure 1:
Bankhart Repair (tore the ligaments around the "ball" in my shoulder). This was a full on 4.5inch cut open and 3 titanium pins. 6 weeks in a sling then physical therapy.
Cost: 15,000$
Procedure 2:
Pin ripped out, leaving on two holding my shoulder in. This happened about about 8 months after the first surgery. This time I had it done with a scope, removed the make the beast with two backsed up pin and put three more in. 6 more weeks in a sling and I skipped therapy this time around
Cost: 20,000$
It's expensive. Remember, if it is a pre-existing injury chances are if you get insurance now, they won't cover it. Make sure to hurt your shoulder again......
I separated my shoulder + shredded up a bunch of stuff in there playing lacrosse back in highschool (I'm 29 now).
Get this: They initially thought it was dislocated at the hospital, so in the process of yanking on it to try and get it back into place, they MADE IT WORSE!! >:( -I should've sued looking back on it... [bang]
Now my collarbone sticks WAY out + looks like a dislocated shoulder even though it's not, and it's more and more painful each year.
I know I'm going to have to go into "the shop" and get it worked on sooner than later, which should be a pleasant way to spend the afternoon. I'm thinking begining of winter would be good so I can still ride!! :-\
Quote from: Kaveh on June 23, 2008, 02:59:32 PM
My main question is this: how many of you have had shoulder surgery, rotator cuff and ligament repair? How long did the rehab last? how long before you felt 100%? Any general thoughts re: this?
Another question I have for any experts out there is what if I wait till the end of summer to get this done? (that's assuming I need surgery) What are the consequences? I'd like to finish out the hockey season, but not at the expense of long term damage.
I had a type 2 Labrum Repair last September. It was initially injured from a snowboarding accident. I subluxed it (partial dislocation). The shoulder got progressive weaker over the next 7 years or so. My right shoulder would pop out every 6~9 month and pop itself back in from carrying stuff. It finally poped out when I was doing strengthening exercise with a 5 lbs weight. >:(
My initial doctor (~7 years ago) told me since I don't play sports professionally, I "probably" don't need surgery. Bad advice. I wish I remember the doctor's name so I can provide him with some feedback. Last lear before the surger, I did more research and the correct prognosis is if you are below 30, then surgery is likely the best course of action. I gave up playing volleyball for 7 years because of a sporatically bad joint. If I had know surgery whould have allowed me to play again (even it it is just recreationallly) I would have gotten it taken care of sooner.
The final diagnosis was around April of 2007. I push the surgery out until mid-Spetember to strike a compromise between motorcycling and snowboarding.
Another imporant point though, talk to the physical therapist on rehab time frame. The surgeon was completely wrong about the rehab time frame. You will get a much more realistic timeframe from the PT since that is actually what they do. The Surgeon just cut and sew. It took about 1.5x to 2x as long as I was quoted. It's June now so I would say, post-surgery, it took me 9 month to feel 95%. My strength is still way down and I don't expect to get that back until maybe December.
Net/Net: I'm real happy about the surgery. I wish the surgeon would have told me how long the actual rehad process was. I fault my 1st doctor for providing bad advice to not have surgery when it first happened.
Feel free to PM me or ask her any question and I will answer them as truthfully as I can. Also happy to post pic of the procedure, but don't want to gross anyone out.
Quote from: Kaveh on June 23, 2008, 02:59:32 PM
... I am currently shopping for health insurance ...
I got my insurance through eHealthInsurance.com ... a great place to comparison shop among policies.
Keep in mind, as you may be aware since you've had insurance on and off, there's a delay between getting an approval and actually receiving insurance coverage. It's a PITA tactic of some insurance companies to make sure you're not getting the insurance because of an urgent/emergency need or because of an expensive, ongoing medical condition. I had to wait a month or so before getting mine, with an effective date from the time I signed up. Essentially I paid for a month of premium without the benefit of the insurance.
This delay being said, you should factor in the timing needed to get insurance and the timing of your surgery, including any needed pre-surgery appointments as you want all those appointments covered by insurance to make the necessity of your surgery appear more legitimate (instead of having it appear as a pre-existing condition for which the insurance company can and probably would deny).
EDIT: If and when you sign up for new insurance, be careful how you answer questions about your medical history as you don't want them to find a way to think your shoulder is a pre-existing condition. I also answered that I did not currently have insurance at the time I signed up (which was true as I did not have coverage for a few years, which might explain the delay in getting coverage I mentioned above), and I did not know offhand the name of my previous insurance company. Essentially, I wanted to start with a clean slate and not have my previous injuries affect my new coverage.
Yeah, I'm concered about the whole pre-exsisting injury thing. I can wait a couple of months before any doctor visits, I've gone this long, whats a few more months. My bed could use some more pillows [laugh]
As far as time since last insured, it hasn't been that long. Last year is when I quit my job.
Thanks for all the feedback guys [thumbsup]
Quote from: CDawg on June 24, 2008, 08:45:43 AM
[snip] Also happy to post pic of the procedure, but don't want to gross anyone out.
I'm down for some pics [thumbsup]
Ummm... can you link to the pics rather than posting them, please?
Quote from: Kaveh on June 24, 2008, 12:05:54 PM
I'm down for some pics [thumbsup]
EDIT:
Quote from: Speeddog on June 24, 2008, 12:16:22 PM
Ummm... can you link to the pics rather than posting them, please?
Sure
EDIT:
Quote from: Speeddog on June 24, 2008, 12:20:24 PM
Those are OK, I forgot it was by 'scope. [thumbsup]
Okay, back on.
(https://lh5.ggpht.com/clifton.yen/SGFHhX_yhrI/AAAAAAAAAQE/UK6KDfJtXC4/s800/20080624151748985_Page_1.jpg)
(https://lh5.ggpht.com/clifton.yen/SGFHnS3eoZI/AAAAAAAAAQM/xszMMx0CF24/s800/20080624151748985_Page_2.jpg)
Those are OK, I forgot it was by 'scope. [thumbsup]
damn, I wish I could find mine!
You can see what a broken titanium pin in the shoulder joint looks like
Sorry to bring this up ,its not what I want to do on a Monday.
I hurt my sholder last week and its been a bad few days.
Has any one healed up without surgery?
I spent the weekend iceing down my sholder and it seems to be getting better but still hurts like hell.
I did make a appointment to see a Dr.
I wonder if X rays are part of the program ,or if ,well whatever.
I did manage to work a 1/2 day today using the other arm most of the time. But I cant think straght.
I need to get some sleep,but the sun is out,,Im zonked . This sucks. I was having a great life untill last week.
Anyone got anything? More ice? what?
Kilgore
Quote from: Kilgore Trout on November 10, 2008, 10:48:09 AM
Sorry to bring this up ,its not what I want to do on a Monday.
I hurt my sholder last week and its been a bad few days.
Has any one healed up without surgery?
I spent the weekend iceing down my sholder and it seems to be getting better but still hurts like hell.
I did make a appointment to see a Dr.
Anyone got anything? More ice? what?
Kilgore
My husband hurt his shoulder a while back--2nd degree seperation. The doc told him to keep ice on it and take Advil to reduce swelling, but did not recommend surgery. He did that for several weeks. His shoulder stuck out at an odd angle for the rest of his life and he was never quite the same, but did eventually get back to lifting weights and jui jitsu.
As for the main question: I've never had shoulder surgery, but I have some clients who have. (I'm a yoga instructor and own a studio in SoCal.) They have all had varrying degrees of success with their surgeries, but the recovery period can be monstrous. One guy took two years and was never quite the same, but he was also much older than you are now (in his 50's) and had a lot of scar tissue buildup over the years. The younger guys who have it done tend to recover faster and more completely because a) your body heals faster when it's younger and b) you probably don't have nearly as much scar tissue as someone in their 50's. Scar tissue is a particularly big issue with shoulders because of the way they are designed: there isn't actually any bone support like the ball & socket structure of the hip. It's all muscle and ligaments. Scar tissue is designed to be tough and it's not stretchy like muscle tissue, so your mobility is instantly limited by that. The only two ways I know of to break up scar tissue are to basically rip through it (painful) or in some cases a special ultrasonic procedure has been known to help. Ask a chiropractor about that one if it becomes necessary.
+1 on getting a doc who works with professional athletes. This is your body. You only have one. Get some insurance coverage first. I also went through eHealthInsurance.com and was fairly happy with their overall selection, ability to comparison shop, etc. If you haven't gone to a doctor about this injury yet, I would recommend waiting until after you have coverage. You'll probably have to pay a few grand out of pocket even with insurance, but it's better than paying $35k out of pocket.
Thanks ,, things will go ok. I hope
Im out of work for today and going to ice down and drink red wine.
Quote '' One guy took two years and was never quite the same, but he was also much older than you are now (in his 50's) and had a lot of scar tissue buildup over the years.''
Im way over 50. That cant be good.
Kilgore Trout
Quote from: Kilgore Trout on November 10, 2008, 12:09:58 PM
Thanks ,, things will go ok. I hope
Im out of work for today and going to ice down and drink red wine.
Quote '' One guy took two years and was never quite the same, but he was also much older than you are now (in his 50's) and had a lot of scar tissue buildup over the years.''
Im way over 50. That cant be good.
Kilgore Trout
Kilgore, I think River's post on the guy over 50 was meaning that he had done the injury quite a while before, and thus scar tissue was a problem.
If you've *just now* injured it, that shouldn't be the case.
Quote from: Speeddog on November 10, 2008, 02:00:46 PM
Kilgore, I think River's post on the guy over 50 was meaning that he had done the injury quite a while before, and thus scar tissue was a problem.
If you've *just now* injured it, that shouldn't be the case.
[thumbsup] Correctamundo. Thanks for clarifying, Nick. ;)
Quote from: River on November 10, 2008, 02:28:15 PM
[thumbsup] Correctamundo. Thanks for clarifying, Nick. ;)
No problem, just didn't want Kilgore to think it was worse than necessary.
Kilgore,
Get an opinion from a doctor first. Without accurate diagnoses on the cause (sublux, dislocation, tear, etc...) no one here can offer any advice of material value. Depending on what the problems some of the advice here is pretty good, but other parts are less helpful.
The thread jack contunues,bad speling ,misplaced thoughts. the works.
I was hoping for a Doctor referal to a physical therapist but "no ticket no ride"
CDawg you are correct, no one can say any thing without a MRI. So tomarow at 730 AM Im getting one.
I am to meet a MRI truck at the local hospital . A portable on the road type thing.
I wonder if thay wear pointy boots and sun glasses (truck driver stuff).
So First a doctor,, which was cool she is a real nice Ojibwe local who has a real nice aura about her.
She knows healing. And she helped me figure out the insurance.
Another cool thing my wife has a cousin who is a nurse at the same office. So I know a few people there.
Has anyone seen the movie "The road to Wellville" with Anthony Hopkens?
This is a serious thread jack so keep your hands where I can see em and dont make any sudden moves.
No body needs to get hurt.
Kilgore Trout