Ducati Monster Forum

Semi-Derby: http://jalopnik.com/5892457/audi-could-buy-italian-bike-maker-ducati (http://jalopnik.com/5892457/audi-could-buy-italian-bike-maker-ducati)

(I've seen other posts in local club boards, but nothing in General...)

Saw this today on MCN:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2012/March/mar1212-audi-poised-to-buy-ducati/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2012/March/mar1212-audi-poised-to-buy-ducati/)

"Ducati chairman Andrea Bonomi has in the past pointed out that he views 'Ducati as the two-wheel equivalent of Audi', a perception Ferdinand Piech would likely agree with."

Seriously? I've heard, "The Ferrari of motorcycles." Never Audi.

Audi Said in Talks to Buy Luxury Italian Motorcycle Maker Ducati
2012-03-12 18:20:15.755 GMT


By Chad Thomas
     March 12 (Bloomberg) -- Audi AG is in talks to buy Ducati Motor Holding SpA, the maker of luxury motorbikes ridden by celebrities such as Brad Pitt, from owner Investindustrial SpA, according to two people familiar with the matter.
     Audi, which has the right of first refusal on a purchase until mid-April, is considering a total price of about 850 million euros ($1.12 billion) for the Italian company, which would include assuming some 800 million euros in liabilities, said one of the people, who declined to be identified discussing private negotiations.
     Buying Ducati would add a motorcycle maker to VW’s nine- brand empire and include products such as the $28,000 Superbike
1199 Panigale S Tricolore. Investindustrial, a Milan-based private equity company, may hold an initial public offering of Ducati in Hong Kong this year or sell it to a rival, two people familiar with the plans said last month. Ducati was delisted from the Milan exchange in 2008.
     Audi, owned by Volkswagen AG, must still do due diligence on the potential deal, the people said. Christine Ritz, head of VW investor relations, said the carmaker doesn’t comment on market speculation. A spokesman for Investindustrial declined immediate comment on the matter when contacted by Bloomberg.
     Hero MotoCorp Ltd., India’s biggest motorcycle maker, said March 5 that Ducati is one of the assets it’s examining as it looks for acquisitions to expand overseas. Bayerische Motoren Werke AG, which already makes motorcycles under the BMW brand, said last month it’s not interested in Ducati.
     Volkswagen Chief Executive Officer Martin Winterkorn said today at the carmaker’s annual meeting that he keeps his eyes open to what’s for sale on the market, when asked about whether VW was interested in buying Ducati.
     U.K. automotive magazine CAR reported the discussions between Audi and Ducati earlier today.

Maybe that is an example of German humor.  

What does this mean?  "...there is no way Audi will pay telephone numbers for Ducati."  Is that some sort of expression?

10 digits
so not billions

phone numbers in Europe have 11 and 12 and 14 digits.

hmmm hexidecimal phones, those tricky bastards!

More like, " The Porsche of motorcycles" then.   Much rather Audi than Indian Mahindra!

Much prefer Audi to any other company.

Plus, if Audi acquires Ducati, Ducati will be a sister company with Lamborgini, which could mean a Diavel Aventador  [evil]

I've always like the sound of, "The Ducati of Motorcycles".

Ducati: The [bacon] of motorcycles

or to turn it on it's head

 [bacon]: the Ducati of foods.

Ducati: The Fiat of Motorcycles------Fix it again, Tony!

Doe's Audi own Lamborghini now ??  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the chassis of the R8 is base on a Lamborghini

Both Audi and Lambo are under the VW umbrella, as is Porsche, Bentley, Bugatti, Skoda, SEAT, & Scania.

(http://www.mad-ducati.com/Gallery/bsandusky/G592/AuDucati.JPG)

R8 Panigale anyone?...LOL

BTW...I can't take credit for the design as it was sent to me on my local club Email list by one of the other members whom I assume did it...

http://jalopnik.com/5892626/all-the-best-audi+buys+ducati-jokes-in-one-place (http://jalopnik.com/5892626/all-the-best-audi+buys+ducati-jokes-in-one-place)

Very nice.  Although I may be in the minority as someone who can't stand VW/Audi, at least it seems I have some company.

I pray this deal falls apart and a more suitable suitor is found.....

I can only see this as a good thing as VW has a pretty good history of absorbing brands and letting them develop well.  Every single small high end company they have absorbed has only profited from the purchase.

Welcome Herbie to the DMF

http://www.flickr.com/photos/minimarketing/4693555644/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/minimarketing/4693555644/#)

From "Automotive News" today, what we industry insiders used to call "Automotive Blues".  8)
http://www.autonews.com/article/20120313/BLOG15/303139799/1498 (http://www.autonews.com/article/20120313/BLOG15/303139799/1498)

Anyone find it interesting that Michael Lock the former Ducati NA CEO is now at Lambo USA?
maybe he's trying to get his old job back in a roundabout way

I doubt he has that much pull mit der germans, but you never know...

I agree with your post.

We had bought a new 2004 Jetta in late '04 and put almost 120k miles on it before unloading it. My wife and I vow to never own another Volkswagen for the cr@p quality and cr@p customer service. I suspect the block was machined wrong because the water pump was always leaking at the block, their plastic impeller exploded on the water pump at 60k miles (a VERY common problem), a plastic heater hose fitting broke, the electric fan died ($350), the alternator went bad at 105k, the coating on the dash covers was peeling off, both front seats mysteriously dropped LARGE springs out of the bottoms of them that didn't effect the function of the seats, the front leather seats had premature cracks and splits, the CD player in the main stereo deck quit working, a recall on the heated seats basically rendered them worthless, we had two ignitions coils fry and they wouldn't completely reimburse us for the one that fried prior to the recall, and the list goes on. And this was the last year for that body style, so they should have had all the issues straightened out by then.

In comparison, my 1995 Honda Civic had a wheel bearing go bad at 125k. The car now has 278k and I finally changed out the CV axles. It still has the original clutch and alternator.

^That's pretty rare. One of my nephews has a Jetta TDI. Outside of standard maintenance per the manufacturer, the car has 225k incident free miles.

my 2011 Golf TDI is at 94k now and with no problems except for the fact that cats keep getting hit by it, 3 so far  ???

My wife's Audi is too new to fairly compare but it certainly was fun in the little bit of snow we did get this year.

Far from rare, actually - A coworker of mine has a 2001 Jetta TDI and is having difficulties getting it to start and to run at idle until it warms up. It's been to three mechanics and no one can figure it out. He swears off VW's from this point forward.....Ex-bandmember's sister had bought a new Beetle when they came out. She had the sunroof replaced twice and had two impellers explode on water pumps in less than 100k miles. When we bought our Jetta, he told me I should have talked to him first. His whole family has sworn off VW's because of the issues with the VW and the poor customer service they received.

The plastic impellers are a very well known problem with VW's and that is why practically every thread on a VW forum recommends replacing the water pump the first time with an aftermarket with a steel impeller. Interestingly, last time I checked, VW still uses plastic impellers despite the well known issue.

http://repairpal.com/engine-overheating-due-to-damaged-water-pump-impeller-344 (http://repairpal.com/engine-overheating-due-to-damaged-water-pump-impeller-344)

If you read through the comments on that website, you will see that they cover the water pump, fan, and plastic hose fittings that our car was plagued with.

Audi cars have the same impeller issues - http://atlanticmotorcar.com/audi-tt-quattro-1-8-turbo-defective-water-pump (http://atlanticmotorcar.com/audi-tt-quattro-1-8-turbo-defective-water-pump)

Pretty sure Ducati water cooled bikes already have a plastic impeller.

How else can a VW takeover hurt the Ducati brand?

Actually, they are probably a perfect match for each other. They both like to look the other way when their engineering fails, claim it isn't a problem, and never find a cure for several years (if ever).

Plastic impellers = flaking chrome rockers = expanding plastic tanks

 [laugh]

How many Ducati's do you own? :P

VW is not famous for comprehending marque values; better than BMW which is not saying much. Daimler is much better at managing things without tinkering with the concept and formula. Sadly not a player this time. Then again, Lamborghini hasn't suffered but Seat is weak still and Bugatti is a disaster. Had Porsche bought control of VW, things might be more promising. That merger is still in limbo I gather. http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2012/03/12/volkswagen-working-full-speed-on-porsche-brand-deal-ceo/ (http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2012/03/12/volkswagen-working-full-speed-on-porsche-brand-deal-ceo/)

Bentley is doing OK but would have been doing better IMO if VW hadn't crammed Audi engines in the cars from Crewe and tinkered a bit much with the platforms. That put off a bunch of traditional buyers while picking up some "bling" crowd. NOT a formula/strategy for longevity.

say what you will...steel impellers aren't the answer...you'de be mighty pist if a steel impeller'd water pump let go and wallowed and honked out your engine block requiring you to get a whole new bottom end or engine....so while you think what you will....plastic impellers are designed to do exactly what they are doing so as to prevent further engine damage when they do let go...so put that bit of engineering thinking in your pipe and smoke it....

and BTW...because people complain about something on VWVortex, doesn't mean it is as widespread a problem as you think....for every internet whiner, there are 10 who never say a peep or have an issue...and if it was really that much of an issue, don't you think there mighta been a recall?!?!?!...the Gubment would be involved...trust me....

and I am not defending VW when I say all this as my motivation...I say this because there are ALWAYS details and circumstances surrounding these "issues" and "stories" that never seem to get revealed...but JW Marriott said it right when he said (slightly paraphrased) "Please a customer,and they'll tell a few, but a displeased customer will tell 10 times as many" and the internet is an easy way to mainline your complaints to many, regardless of the ratio in actuality of issues and problems...it just seems to be compounded exponentially by broadcast, just like when something hits the media news outlets...but both sides of the story never seem to truly get out....

But in that same sense, aren't those that first discovered the expanding tank issue also "internet whiners"? Where would we be right now if those few guys would not have shouted out from the rooftops? I find it infinitely better to at least know that this might be a possibility when I'm shopping around for a car or a bike for that matter.

personally, IMHO and in my professional experience, VW see's a problem that comply's within their warranties, they take care of it without much of a push or issue and the field engineers I have dealt with don't just smile and nod, they get their hands dirty to try and figure out what things are happening in order to solve them for the future, whether it be through Technical Service Bulletin or engaging the early stages of a recall or just acknowledging isolated incidents...they are usually on hand in the dealership level with some frequency or regularity for exactly these kinds of issues...I can't say that I have heard much of the same in the Ducati swelling tank saga...in fact, FWIR, dealers were instructed to send the tank in to get it approved before getting a tank IIRC, because Ducati didn't exactly seem to be willing to acknowledge an issue to begin with at all and didn't have the on the ground representation to support investigation or understanding of the issue...there is a much more prevelant network in place with VW than Ducati it seems ( which would seem to make sense given the number of vehicles in operation difference between the brands )  for to assess and deal with issues and begin the rectification process....so the behinds the scene process between the 2 is very different, with the German way seemingly being a much more efficient one than the Italian way...

I love my Audi S4 and I love my Monster.  Who ever said these were supposed to be the most practical vehicles? 

Exactly my point! While I am riding one or two of them, the others usually have something that needs to be worked on.

Another interesting point is that we originally bought the VW because we needed reliable tansportation, but unfortunately, the wife didn't want a Honda at the time (she has one, now). My wife is disabled, and we bought the VW when she was pregnant. I was hoping to have a reliable car for her to drive when I was working 45 minutes away, while she was pregnant and while our daughter was an infant. On the other hand, I bought the Ducatis knowing everything about them and knowing that they are luxury vehicles. Before I bought the ST2, I knew all about the issues with the regulator, stator, internal fuel lines, shifter, and front sprocket retainer. Before I bought the 748, I knew all about the flakey rocker syndrome and fully expected that to be an issue. Same goes with all the other bikes and their inherent and engineered design "character" features.  [laugh]

[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] It's in more places than just VWVortex, and if you didn't notice, I had a personal reference tell me. The only reason I mentioned the internet, was because it is easy to look it up...

Interestingly, after my father and I replaced the first water pump, and timing belt, we noticed that the inner boot on  CV axle was ripped. They use some effed up specialty bolts for it, and the socket needed was almost as much as a local import specialty repair shop wanted to replace the boot, so I let him do it. When he lifted the car, he saw some of the signs of coolant on the plastic covers and said, "Water pump problems, huh?" He knew exactly what the probem was and said he repairs them all the time, so it doesn't just happen in Cyberspace. (If you don't believe me, I will gladly give you the shop's name and phone number).

I probably wouldn't have minded if we only had a water pump issue with the car, but with it constantly racking up more and more items that went wrong, it wasn't difficult to decide it was a sh!t car. Throw in the lack of response that VW had with the items I called about, and then refusing to reimburse us even the retail price of a VW coil for a bad one that occured prior to the recall, we figure VW will never get another penny of our money. (They only reimbursed us $54 on a $80+ coil, and refused to pay for any of the labor).

Yes, VW has had a problem with water pump impellers breaking loose, probably at the interval many cars need a water pump anyway.  Unfortunatly, when the impeller fails overheating is almost instantly verses other cars leaving wonderful puddles of antifreeze for thousands of miles after the pump should have been replaced.  Happen to every 1.8?  In my case, only one out of the four we owned.  Oh two out of the four if you count the one that started dripping at about 98K, but does that count since it wasn't an impeller failure?

On my TDI, I'm just going to replace the water pump when I do the timing belt, which I'll do early at 100k anyway (the interval is now 120k on these)
It's not that expensive of a part.
The only "early" failure I've had was my front struts at around 80k. I blame the horrible condition that the roads have degraded to rather than the car.
The car has been rock solid and any maintenance like oil changes, fuel filter changes, etc have been a breeze to do with no worries as long as they are done correctly.

I heard Diesel bought Ducati  [laugh]

Yeah, that email from DNA almost scared me today.
For a second, I thought they were going to release a Ducati Monster TDi  ;D

excited me rather than scare me
I'd jump on the chance to have a Monster as a reasonable commuter. At 50 mpg on the highway, it makes no sense to use the bike as my car (a TDI) does the same. However, if one got lets say 100 mpg then the situation leans more towards the bike making sense.  [thumbsup]

Last time I checked, Ducati has mostly made sport-oriented bikes. So check out the mileage of the Audi Le Mans prototypes and be careful what you wish for.  8) (And..., Diesel now costs more than Premium in most of the U.S. now. Was great when that cost was nearly 1/2.)

(http://image.motorcyclistonline.com/f/features/122_1103_the_diavel_not_ducatis_first_cruiser/35994687+w620/122_1103_01_o+ducati_indiana_cruiser+.jpg)

I'd buy a diesel Indiana in a second
mainly because it would be guaranteed to piss off anyone who sees it for soooo many reasons  [thumbsup]

lol.. man after my own heart.. :-)

 ;D

And what did THAT do for them?  ;)

I need an Indiana as club mascot!

with a police paint scheme and lights on it  [laugh]

Drove their price down so TPG could buy them for a song

 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

Everyone uses the Lamborghini example of how great this will work out.  I am pretty sure that most of them are like me and never been in a Lambo at speed (let alone driven one) pre- or post-VW/Audi purchase.  Do the new Lamborghinis get positive reviews?  Sure, but so do Porsches.  That might mean a Porsche is a great car, but it doesn't mean a Porsche can be a Ferrari. 

I would be curious to hear the opinion of a long time Lamborghini enthusiast/owner on what VW/Audi has meant to the marque.  I don't want to know whether a post Audi Lambo is faster or "better" or more reliable. I don't want to know what the magazines say,  I want to know if current Lamborghinis are still definitively Lamborghinis.

I still like the idea of one of the Indian companies better.  Look at Royal Enfield.  They went under Indian control and have barely changed in 50 years! [laugh]

I talked with Redding Finney from Ferrari of Washington ( and I think he owns Ferrari of Baltimore too IIRC) back a while ago at one of the car shows at teh DC Convention center, which they sell Lambo and Maserati as well....he said the one things that has gotten better for sure was parts supply chain and backend resources in comparo to before...

I suppose that is to be expected, but what about the cars?  Are they simply Audis with a token nod to "raucousness" or are they full on crazy Lambos of old or are they somewhere in between?

probably everything lambo wanted to grow up to be...

whole bunch of supposition in that statement...

wouldn't you agree? ;D

 ;D

So what if I am the type that thinks "growing up" is only good in moderation?  I worry that if they grow up too much, the new DucAudi may not be for me. :(

A&R reports a bid of 750MM Euro from Audi.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/audi-acquisition-offer-ducati/ (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/audi-acquisition-offer-ducati/)

^^^ Beat me to it.

Interesting to note that Ducati had less debt on their books than originally thought. That's unusual for any business in any country in the  "PIIGS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIGS_%28economics%29)" group...

I think some growing up was needed... I know that for the countach back in the day you needed to pay a ridiculous amount in order to change the clutch... because, due to the design, you had to pull the engine out in order reach the clutch.  Estimates are normally around 10k+ for the service.

Many mid engine cars are like that.  Some have designed them to be much easier to drop the entire drivetrain, like the Acura NSX.  Still, not cheap to work on, but not nearly as expensive as a Lambo.

     (Updates with comment from analyst in fifth paragraph.)

By Chad Thomas
     April 17 (Bloomberg) -- Volkswagen AG’s Audi is poised to
purchase Italian motorcycle maker Ducati Motor Holding SpA from
owner Investindustrial SpA for about 860 million euros ($1.1
billion), a person familiar with the matter said.
     Audi has reached an agreement with Investindustrial to buy
the Bologna, Italy-based maker of luxury motorbikes, with VW’s
supervisory board set to approve the deal tomorrow, said the
person, who declined to be identified discussing the private
negotiations. Audi and Investindustrial declined to comment.
     At that price the deal, minus debt, would value Ducati at
about seven times last year’s earnings before interest, taxes,
depreciation and amortization. Ducati’s total liabilities are
less than 200 million euros, buyout firm Investindustrial said
last month.
     Volkswagen Chairman Ferdinand Piech, who turned 75 today,
has long coveted the brand, publicly expressing interest in
buying Ducati in April 2008 before eventually losing out to
Investindustrial. The purchase will make Ducati the 11th brand
in VW’s portfolio, alongside super-car marques Lamborghini and
Bugatti and heavy-duty truck manufacturers Scania AB and MAN SE.
     “Ducati is one of the finest machines you can buy but
strategically it’s insignificant for Volkswagen,” said
Christoph Stuermer, a Frankfurt-based analyst with IHS
Automotive. “Its revenue is more than Lamborghini’s and
Bugatti’s combined, but to the automotive operations, it’s a
mere accessory.”

                        BMW Competition

     Ducati would complement Audi’s luxury-car lineup with
products such as the $28,000 Superbike 1199 Panigale S Tricolore
and expand the brand’s competition with Bayerische Motoren Werke
AG, which makes BMW and Husqvarna motorcycles. Ducati, which
last year sold about 42,000 motor bikes, had revenue for 2011 of
480 million euros.
     For Volkswagen, the deal would mean an entry into the
motorcycle business and gaining another asset in Italy after
buying super-car brand Lamborghini and Italdesign Giugiaro SpA.
Piech has also expressed interest in the past in Fiat SpA’s Alfa
Romeo brand.
     Hero MotoCorp Ltd., India’s biggest motorcycle maker, had
also expressed interest in Ducati after Milan-based
Investindustrial made it known in February that it planned to
sell the company. Daimler AG, which makes Mercedes-Benz cars,
reiterated today that it’s not interested in acquiring Ducati.
     Ducati, which was founded in 1926, sells the Superbike,
Monster, Streetfighter, Hypermotard, Multistrada and the new
Diavel models in 65 countries.

Ok, for the NEW forum...

go here:

www.ducaudimonsterforum.org (http://)


 ;D 8) [laugh]


(I'm just kidding...)

Lookin' official. Other places are reporting on the details of the deal. Official announcement is set for tomorrow though.

Hmmm, Germans and the Italians again. hmmm

 [laugh]  [beer] [laugh]

Reuters says it's a done deal for $1.12 BB.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120417a17.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120417a17.htm)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/17/audi-ducati-idUSL6E8FHBIT20120417 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/17/audi-ducati-idUSL6E8FHBIT20120417)

wow, and now my VW Golf with my Ducati stickers doesn't looks so bad...