I have done a bunch of valve adjustments on the smaller 2v motors. But this is my first smaller valve 1000 adjust. Here is my question.
With the opening rocker clips off. I can get one rocker moved to the side easy but I can't seem to get both off to check that the closers aren't too tight.
Has anyone had trouble with this and found a trick?
Thanks
It's easiest with the belts off.
You'll need to rotate the cam slightly to get both arms out of the way.
Cool as long as there isn't something different about these motors where you can only pull one rocker at a time I will figure it out. I was also surprised how much harder these smaller rocker clips were to remove.
Quote from: K3V1N on March 18, 2012, 06:44:43 AM
Cool as long as there isn't something different about these motors where you can only pull one rocker at a time I will figure it out. I was also surprised how much harder these smaller rocker clips were to remove.
...and the half rings are freakin' tiny. ;)
I'm hoping I don't have to mess with the closers this time. The intake closers valves have .002 with the gauge feel on the tight side and the exhausts have .001 again a little more drag on the feeler so if I can make sure there is no drag on the cam I will leave them but front cylinder exhaust opener is .003 so I going to sand that to .004 then all the openers will be .004 and my closers will be .0005 to .0015. That should be pretty close to perfect. I just have to mess with it more I guess to get both opening rockers to slide over at the same time.
I use .005 for exhausts.
If you take the time to do closers even at .0015 you'll notice a difference. The half rings last longer too.
Hmm,
Just so I'm 100% you are talking inches and you open the exhaust openers to .005 and you don't try and get closers as close to 0 as possible without cam drag you open them up to .0015?
I still can't seem to get both the rockers off at once. It was so easy on my 620.
Thanks for your help.
The DS motors are more prone to breaking half rings, so chasing the closer clearances down is a good thing.
I do exhaust openers to .005 also.
The cams on a DS do have more drag than the previous version, as they're plain bearing not ball bearing.
I'm not sure if you can slide both opener rockers off at the same time, I've not tried.
I think dp is saying getting the .002 closers down to .0015 is an improvement.
And yes, we're talking inches.
i pull the opening rockers out, makes it much easier to deal with the closers. the ds motors usually have highspots at the ends of the closing lobe, so they drag at those two points and not in the middle. i set them for no drag at the end points.
you cant slide both arms over on the DS1000 motors.
Quote from: Speeddog on March 18, 2012, 10:39:05 AM
The DS motors are more prone to breaking half rings, so chasing the closer clearances down is a good thing.
I do exhaust openers to .005 also.
The cams on a DS do have more drag than the previous version, as they're plain bearing not ball bearing.
I'm not sure if you can slide both opener rockers off at the same time, I've not tried.
I think dp is saying getting the .002 closers down to .0015 is an improvement.
And yes, we're talking inches.
Actually, I was saying the closer to 0 the better.
I'd go after the .0015 closers.
Thanks for all the help guys. So after measuring the valves 5 times and moving the cam side to side to make sure the load is 100% off the opener cam here are the numbers from the factory after 7k miles.
Front Cyl
Intake
O .004/ C .001
Exhaust
O .003 snugish / C 0
Top
Intake
O .005 snug / C .003
Exhaust
O .005 less snug / C .001 snug
I sanded the 2 exhaust openers to be .005 with a little drag on the feeler
But I do have 2 more questions.
The front exhaust closer is really at 0. I move the cam and don't feel any drag and the bike has been like that since new. But I have to push and jam the next size feeler gauge in there. Do I take it off and sand it to .001 or leave it as is. 0 is within spec?
My second question is has anyone replaced a closer with the belts on. It really isn't that hard to get to the valves on these bikes (wish the loose closer was on the front cyl though). If someone can tell me it's possible to replace a closer with the belts on I might put it back together and enjoy this weather in the east and then pull it apart to just do that one loose closer .003 in a week or two when it starts to rain.
Thanks again!
As close to 0 with out drag is the right spec. [thumbsup]
I would not chance doing the closer with the belts on. You won't be able to feel any drag if you shoot for zero clearance, and there are too many possible variables in measuring technique and machining tolerances.
Yeah, your right. But this warm weather we are having on the east coast is going to kill me if I have to wait for a 7mm measuring tool then shims. The old CB500 just isn't the same as the S2R on my 60 mile trip back and forth from work. But I will do what is best for the bike like always :)
One more question and this is the last, I think.
Can you reusing a belt? I don't want to do this but say I did my service with new belts then in a year I do the non belt 6k service. Can I take the belt off and put it back on or is it best to get new belts then?
I try and do the best I can when the belts are off so the next check is just a check.
But I have always wondered.
Thanks again
Belts can be re-used.
I always mark the position and direction of rotation...
just like a directional tire.
That is good to know. Thanks again. I called the dealer that just signed Ducati to see if they had a 7mm shim kit hoping I could get something to finish up tomorrow but they don't have any special tools or parts yet.
Anyone selling a 7mm shim measuring tool and some closer shims cheap? That can send it to me faster then EMSDUC:)
I wanted to leave 2 more helpful tip for anyone reading this before adjusting valves.
#1 always just order some half rings / keepers if you are placing an order. Every time I think I looked at them all close and whenever I haven't ordered extras I find a broken one and have to wait for such a cheap tiny part in the mail.javascript:void(0);
#2 Mike at http://emsduc.com/ (http://emsduc.com/) is great, super helpful and gets parts out to you quick.
Hopefully my half rings will show up today and I can ride tomorrow.
i would of just gone to MBP collets instead.
Yeah, maybe next time, I just got the bike and liked the 14 bucks for the two I needed plus two backups for now. I think next time I will step it up with the MBP and both the real tools.
How did you rotate the cam to feel for binding on the closers if both opener rockers were not moved to the sides? Just curious, I am doing valve adjustment on my 1000DS right now.
I was just working in it and put in a closer that was too tight and could feel the drag in that area of free play in the cam. By just turning it back and forth 45 degrees. I have a question for someone. Do you use a tool to hold the valve when the closer is off or just turn the motor so the piston is up on the side you are working on? I used to use rubber bands as backup on the 620 but there is less room it feels like with the DS.
i just turn the piston. Its easy to line it up if ur familar with it. Just make sure the piston is indeed up. I usually let the valve drop and dont botherholding it.
I use the piston to support the valves. Just move it to TDC on the cyclinder being worked on.
Without the piston for support, I was having a real hard time getting the half rings free from the closer/valve stem seat they were in.
Thx for the info about spinning the cams in just the 90degree-ish space that they do spin freely to test binding. I was told the same by others and just wanted to confirm.
Big thanks to He Man on posting that trick to use a allen between the closing rocker and the cam is the greatest thing ever how come I haven't seen that till now. I can't tell you how maybe times I have wished I had 3 hands to be pushing, messing with the shim and trying to catch or place keepers.
Thanks again.
Well the valves and belts are set. All the openers are .005 except for the vert intake (.004). All the closers are around .0001 snug. I tensioned the belts with the 5mm / 6mm key then tried to use iAnalyzer to check the hz but I found it very hard to find a consistent reading. I tried a bunch of apps and techniques plucking. I will have to get a mic for my laptop and try that in a couple weeks.
I rode the bike into work today, 30 miles and it felt great. It was a little cool at 35 but the sun was out and the roads were dry.
Thanks again for all the help.
You shouldn't use the Allen key method to adjust belts on a DS. The cam tensioners are in different location and will give you incorrect tensions.
Hmm, that is good to know. It has to be pretty close since i measured them with the 5 and 6mm key before they came off so I don't think I did any damage. I will have to try and find a mic and use the laptop. Thank you for the post I will pull the covers and try again.
5 might be close on the vertical, but its crazy loose for the horizontal. I've seen them set sonically twice and I don't think a 1mm allen would fit for the horizontal. Had a chance to play around with them at a Duc maintenance seminar.
When I tensioned my belts on my DS, a 3mm allen key would fit when the iAnalyzer app showed the tension about right. If you can fit a 5mm, your DS belts are definitely too loose and must have been loose before you started.
The trick with the app is to hold your iPhone mic in the right spot near where the belt oscillates. It works pretty good for me.
You need to mount the mic solid and not moving. Position it and use duc tape or something. I found an easy app. for the computer that reads out a frequency. Pm me if you need it.
i use a 3mm allen key, and its just about right ofr a 45degree bend method as well.
hey as long as its still on the cam right? ;D
I'm pulling the covers and plugs tonight. I think I'll take the feedback in this thread and start a new thread about belt tension using iAnalyzer.
Thanks again for all the great comments.
Wow....
You guys are hard core. When one of my tensioners seized and I replaced my belts (timing?) I just did the old twist test. It felt good. I went with that...
HA, I'm pretty sure you're right on. I think Ducati has even moved some of the specs around. I bet a 45 degree check and they would be fine. I'm going to mess around till sunday night and at that point the covers go on and I'll check them again in 7000 miles. Thanks for your post.
Do what you want to do to get your belts tensioned right on a DS.
I confirm tension by both 3mm allen and frequency app in about 5 minutes. Done and no more hardcore than checking Facebook on my phone.
I think I'm going to end up spending more than 5 minutes. But will kind of do the samething. A combo of checking Hz, Allen gap and 45 twist to get it closer than most techs probably do. But what I was saying in the last post is I'm sure there is a pretty wide range on tension that is with in the limits of the belts. I don't think I want to risk it but I bet a quick feel is enough to set tension and the belt will stay on the cam and not break in 7k.
i heard if you peed on it, and flicked the belts, then its perfectly tensioned if and only if the pee mists the air and a rainbow can be seen.
i have used the 3mm key and 45 degree twist on my bike for 31,000 miles. ive gone through 3 belts (my current set is well over 12,000 and 2 years). its pretty happy.
Quote from: WetDuc on April 01, 2012, 05:17:13 AM
Do what you want to do to get your belts tensioned right on a DS.
I confirm tension by both 3mm allen and frequency app in about 5 minutes. Done and no more hardcore than checking Facebook on my phone.
Did you use a 3mm on both cylinders?
I did and now I saw the procedure in the new LT manual that I just got (DS belts at 4mm vert, 1mm horiz)
Quote from: WetDuc on April 01, 2012, 06:57:24 PM
I did and now I saw the procedure in the new LT manual that I just got (DS belts at 4mm vert, 1mm horiz)
That makes more sense. If you look at the tensioners you'll notice they're not in the same place on both cylinders. So setting them with the same allen key would set them at different tensions. [thumbsup]