Ducati Monster Forum

I know that LEO talk is frowned upon, but I need to ask a question. It's not meant to be offensive, and it's really a yes or no type question, with maybe a bit of explanation if available.

Is a Police Officer allowed to make a subjective statement about what he or she thinks happened at an accident scene? For example, could an LEO say that "If she ran the stop sign, then SHE would have been hit in the side, not in the front"

Obviously this statement is absure, but besides that.. could an LEO make a "CSI" type statement?

in MD, a LEO generally doesn't offer anything in terms of fault unless a person in hurt ( ie:ambulanced away) or a vehicle is in need of towing away due to it being undrivable, at which time they will write and report and take all accounting they can for to assign fault if possible...otherwise, they seem to not offer any conjecture...

We didn't, but there was nothing stopping us.  We had accident investigators that handled the reports for bad wrecks, so we were off the hook.   

I just pulled out a CR-3 (crash report form.)  There is a section labeled: Investigators Narrative Opinion Of What Happened.

Questions like this aren't frowned on. It's the 'cops suck' talk that is. One of the local moto boards is rife with comments like That cop sucked, he pulled me over for doing a 90mph wheelie in a school zone WTF...

It's that sort of comment that's a no no.

Academic or technical questions are education not opinion.

OH, and I forgot 1 other condition for which they offer any blame...if they of course witness the accident...

and to zach...he asked if a LEO were to put in opinion...not an accident investigator ( to which I am assuming you are refferring to a not on the scene at the time of the accident person who is doing some level of reconstruction)....but I think the requirements of course vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and depend of course on the situational severity

It is my understanding that whoever filled out the crash report was the investigator.  Not all departments have the budget for crash specialists. It has been a few years since I was an officer, so it is a little IZ_.  After rereading the form, I'm sure that I filled in the opinion section often, even as a lowly patrol officer.   

thanks for the responses guys.
i'm frustrated by what the LEO said, as it was a matter of opinion and not an objective analysis.
the statement i put up was her exact wording.
"she would have got hit in the side if she ran the stop sign, not you"... meaning that because i got hit in the side, and was already in the intersection, that she had no obligation to stop.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53483651/IMAG0052.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53483651/IMAG0059.jpg)

clearly t-boned at a four way stop. any opinions on how the blame could be laid out on this one?
i honestly don't know if she stopped or ran the stop sign, but i know that I stopped, let the other car (which was in front of her) and then proceeded with my turn.
i also have a witness stating that "she just ran into him while he was in the intersection." his car was behind the other party's vehicle.

It would seem to me you need a lawyer.

LEOs opinions, and even those of their crash investigators (if they have them), can be disupted. There are all sorts of experts that can do this, and lawyers will know how to contact them. I can't see your photos, but the question of whether she had stopped or just blew thru the stop sign can be proven with a physics analysis to determine her speed at impact (one of my Dynamics professors in college did this type of analysis on the side).

Agreed.

I can't see your pictures either, but based on your discription of the accident, it would be easy to dispute what was written on the accident report. Especially if you kept contact info for your witnesses.

Sorry folks. Pictures are fixed.
Thanks guys. If this ends up with me at fault, I'll be getting a lawyer. I feel pretty strongly that I'm in the right here, and my claims rep seems to think so too.

That looks pretty cut and dry to me. i.e., you were clearly already into and most of the way through the intersection when she proceeded into the intersection. Assuming the intersection in the background is the one where the accident occurred.
And your witness had a pretty good view of the situation...

Okay, I can see the pictures now


I'm assuming here, that you were making a left hand turn to be hit where you were? That would mean you were well into the second half of your time in the intersection, meaning: you were already turned and about to be driving away. If so, she was definently in the wrong.

I may be speaking without merit here, but I would say at the most (MOST) you were equally at fault. Let me explain what I mean...If you were in the wrong, and went out of turn, she can not blindly drive into you and claim it was your fault. Even if she had right of way, she would still be at fault (also)if she ran into a car that was obviously almost all the way through the intersection.

Kind of like if someone pulls out in front of you and then stops....you just can't drive into the side of them if you have plenty of time to stop.  [laugh]


Okay lawyers, explain why I am wrong  ;D

Yes, officers (in CA at least) put their opinion in reports.

The opinion is based on physical evidence, witnesses, and driver statements. A majority of my reports conclude that I am unable to assign fault due to conflicting statements from the drivers and no indepedent witness statements. Independent is an important term, your passenger is not independent and as such their statement is not used in determine fault. Sounds like you have a solid witness so it wouldn't make any sense for the officer to conclude that you are the at fault driver.

All officers attend basic traffic investigation school. Even small departments have officers attend expert schools which deal with speed from skid and other forensic type analysis. Are they going to roll on your non injury, property damage only collision? Nope. You are lucky you got a report at all. More and more departments are not taking those type of reports these days.

Did anyone get cited?

no citations were issued, and i was NOT making a left turn, but rather proceeding straight through the intersection immediately after the car that was at the stop sign in front of the OTHER party took their turn.

she just floored it into my side as i was proceeding through the intersection.

oops. My bad. I thought you had said you were making a turn.

all questions aside, the other party was deemed 100% at fault.
thanks folks.

now i just have to wait 4-6 weeks to get my car back...

 [thumbsup]

good news!

common sense prevails!!!

yep!

common sense: 1....

stupidity: 9,210,109,299,013,958,980,235