Ducati Monster Forum

Hey all,

Occasionally after work I enjoy a good romp through the mountains in my area when the sun is down. This evening, after a long 9 hour day at work, I was simply in the mood for a good, quick ride before packing my baby up for the evening. I wasn't tired after work, but instead energized being on my bike... finally. I do this ride often, but tonight in particular gave me thrills and chills. It was a pretty dark night, and even with the brights on, I couldn't see too far ahead of me. I was unable to look through the turns as much as I normally would be able to in the broad daylight. So my eyes followed the yellow and white lines through turns as far as I could make them out. Which I'm assuming through most turns was only 20-50 feet? The headlight seems to be pointed fairly downward, I assume so you can see the more immediate obstacles in your path?

I only have a little over 2k miles on my monster and this is my first bike.

First of all, I'm extremely familiar with these roads, as I used to live in the mountains that they lead to. It's a drive I did nearly daily in my car for a few years, so I'm not simply throwing myself at some unpredictable turns. A lot of turns have a recommended vehicle turn speed of 30mph and I usually take them at 45-58 or so mph while feeling fairly confident at that speed. I've noticed that within myself, it's easier to get visually latched onto an object such as a guard rail or incoming car more easily, with less to see in front of you. I enjoy riding this road at night as there are less cars to compete with etc.

Any tips for cornering at night?

Any general cornering tips as well? I feel as if many corners I take real well and have to only make a couple adjustments in turn, but some I feel like I throw my monster around too much, and I can feel it wobble beneath me, as if I'm too aggressive at the handlebars? Could this also indicate that I'm in too high of a gear if the bike doesn't feel as solid in the turn? I was going about 50 in 3rd gear for most of the turns.

One pretty ass clenching experience happened recently when I was exiting a freeway off-ramp that had one lane as the other was being worked on, and I was cornering with good line of sight, looking through the turn as I ought to, and then my right boot touched concrete a few times. I generally try very hard to ride on the ball of my foot, but I was in a pretty heavy lean. It was a good learning experience as I now raise my heels in tight corners to hopefully prevent that. I kept my cool when it happened, but I was a bit shaky thinking about it afterwards...

I appreciate any feedback!

Night riding is different and will feel different.
Decisions are based on less and closer information, so it's
just to be expected that riding will lack flow.

If your vision is limited to 50 feet, I don't think it's a good idea to do 50 mph.

Maybe you need to adjust your headlight?

"First of all, I'm extremely familiar with these roads"

even with the deer standing in the middle of the road? they usually come out after sunset... if you go so fast that your stopping distance is longer than what you can see, you are screwed anyway. all other techniques are basically irrelevant imho.

mount two PIAA 1100's and aim them high and towards the outside.  when you lean they'll light up that dark area you're riding in to.  PIAA 1100's are awesome for this app.  good deals on complete 2 light kits can be found on e-bay.
you'll love 'em!

General saying is don't over ride your sight lines.  Meaning if you can only see 50 yards ahead don't ride faster than the distance it takes to stop in 50 yards.  It won't matter if you "know the roads" if there's "stuff" in your lane and you don't see it in time to stop or steer around.  "Stuff" being sand, oil, water, rocks, dead animals, blown out retreads, ladders, gray aliens, rebar, etc., etc.  Public roads have a tendency to become trash bins at times.

  I agree with you 100% but a critter crash can happen anytime as I was taken out by a deer in the middle of the afternoon and don't feel like there was much I could have done defensively.She hit me in my front left tunsignal like she was shot out of a cannon and I was second out of three bikes doing 45mph.I now have a love/hate relationship with wildlife.
At night keep an eye out for light reflecting/glowing eyeballs.Although moose eyes don't reflect light.
The older you get the worse your night vision so I limit my night riding and dial it back if I have to do it.

Generally a bad idea? Not necessarily.

For you? YES

Dude, you have 2k miles under your belt. Unless they have all been at the track, there's absolutely no way you're past the getting to know the basics stage. You might think you are, but you're not. The added distractions of everything else you have to be aware of for night riding are too much for you right now.

I don't mean to be an ass about it, but you really shouldn't be trying that for another few thousand miles.

On thing not mentioned yet is that at night, your headlight will be pointed the wrong freakin' direction during any turns requiring counter steering.

Think about it, you're leaned left - you've pushed the bars so the front wheel, and light and pointed right, which is now right and up due to the lean. So you're going left, your beam of light on a Monster is going up and right... yeah.


Hubris... look it up.

You're at a really dangerous stage for riders. You're gaining confidence (good) but your skills, unless you'rea freak of nature, are not keeping pace with your confidence. In a graph that shows instances of riders crashing vs miles traveled in relation to years of experience there's a huge spike towards the mid and end of year 1. Right where you are.

So easy speedy - Understand pushing your limits. But night riding brings the risk curves WAY up

Plus 1 on the critter factor in darkness, 

I used to dodge beach ball sized raccoons and their families crossing at 4-5 a.m.

when I would head out early for Toad's Wild Ride on my very-familiar-to-me roads

coming up a favorite rising turn at speed and leaned way in and seeing a line of road hazards......

well....it can be thought provoking

just trading off 4 wheeled hazards for 4 legged ones

trying to get a clean run for a few hours

ride safe, ride smart, live long enough to realize how lucky you are

First of all, I don't think of myself as a freak of nature master rider at 2000 miles, which is why I posted here. I've been commuting nearly every day to work on my monster, but otherwise don't have very much other experience than freeway and around town driving. I'm looking forward to maybe a track day or two this summer. Also, I don't feel like I'm driving recklessly fast. All of the speeds I'm at I deem appropriate for the turns etc.

Everybody does, until they don't  ;)

ba dum kish...

Pete - do you have any more experienced like minded rider buddies? It can be useful to go out with someone more skilled and see what they do, follow their lines and possibly even have them follow you for a bit to provide feed back. Even better if you can get a camera in behind you - the lens doesn't lie and it can be a good learning tool.

Just keep your level head. You're being smart and seeking advice - just keep being smart.

First time I ever rode the Dragon, it was at 2AM since I rode in for that trip and my route took me across it.  I almost got broad sided by a deer that at about 1' from hitting me turned, ran along side me, and then back into the woods.  I didn't pass a single car and had my light not been on if I wrecked, there is a strong chance it would have been a LONG time before I was found.  Night rides can be nice, but stay away from the technical stuff and dial it down a notch or two.

 [thumbsup]

Hi mrpete,

I enjoy riding at night and over a road riding career spanning 35 years have done multiple 300-mile or (much) longer night rides, which have often included twisty road work. Yes, it can be a lot of fun.

However, I would endorse everything said by other posters above.

One thing I would want to add is that your familiarity with these roads very likely adds risk for you, rather than reducing it. You will be making more assumptions, and there is nothing you can do about that: it is simply human nature.

So, big thrills, but big risks.


Riding tall gears is the way to go, IMO. Makes the throttle a lot less responsive, which is good for smoothness and grip.

One cornering tip I would give you for day and night is to relax and think about your overall progress down the road, rather than about your speed through particular corners.

That is, think about threading the corners together, and take your pleasure from doing that smoothly.

One tip specifically about cornering at night is that if you slip off the bike and wind up lying off the side of the road with broken bones and road rash, it could be a long time before anybody notices.  [bang]

Sorry to end on a gloomy note, but I've always thought that would be a sad way to go out, and some certainly have gone that way.

All of your cornering questions can be answered at length by the book "A Twist of the Wrist".  It is a fantastic way to start thinking systematically about what is going on when you make your motorcycle turn.  Much of the material should be covered in any kind of track day training, but this will help you stay shiny side up until you get there.
http://www.amazon.com/Twist-Wrist-Motorcycle-Roadracers-Handbook/dp/0965045013 (http://www.amazon.com/Twist-Wrist-Motorcycle-Roadracers-Handbook/dp/0965045013)

Also, please don't ride fast on twisty roads at night.  That is good advice for any rider, not just beginners.  A cliche that applies in this situation is: You have the rest of your life to figure out how to ride, how long that is, is up to you.  Seriously, think about it.  After dark you have wildlife, road hazards, inclement weather, drunk drivers and tired drivers and less visibility to see them and have them see you.  Which is not to say you can't ride after the sun goes down, you totally can, just that is not the time to push it.

The headlight on the monsters is pretty lame (even with brights ON). The only time I rode at night was in the keys, when I under estimated how long they were..

either way, as someone above had pointed out, there is random shit on the road (I have seen Queen mattresses on the side of the road). A small patch of gravel when you are at full lean will throw you off. Sad part, even with the best lights you still might not see it in time to make corrections.

Perhaps it is worth noting that despite a (self-proclaimed?) title of 'the Bible' ... there are other worthy books out there if that is a path you pursue.

I have done a couple of the Superbike School classes (albeit in Australia) which I found excellent but I really struggled with Code's writing style in his books ... your experiences may vary of course.

Before I bought my bike I read a Keith Code Book and another one titled Proficient Motorcycling. I still use them as reference tools from time to time. I appreciate all the feedback in this thread!

I for one used to ride my Local Twisties at night, I have been riding for over 12 years, I know the particular roads I rode very well, but in my case it was a constant evaluation of which was more dangerous, The Road at night, or the Road during the day. (When I say night I used to get up at 4am, and by the Time I got Dressed, and rode out to the Road it was about 4:30am, so still dark, but the sunlight would be just starting to arrive by the time I had ridden up and down the range) The Gillies Highway (19km long with 263 Corners with a 900 m elevation change) in North Queensland Australia links the High Country to the Coast, It is a popular transport Road with lots of trucks going up and down all day, it's also a popular Tourist Road with lots of poorly driven Tourist Hire Cars weaving about all over the show also jamming it up during the day.

So I decided this was the lesser of 2 Evils, I rode the Road a number of times in the Dark very slowly and cautiously to see what it was like during the dark of Early morning, I also changed the Headlight Bulb to give me a brighter and Whiter Head light, and I also changed the Angle of the Headlight to give me better lighting coverage while leaned over in the corners. yes there was the risk of an Animal strike, although for the last few years it was a very rare occurrence to see any Animals on that road (day or night)  but that risk was always there.

After about 3 Dark trips I slowly started to ramp up my attack, I never pushed to 100% (I never do on the Public Roads) The Road is pretty much Traffic free at that time of the Day, When I came up to blind Corners I would run them wide to stay well away from the Center line just in case a Car or Truck was coming around the other way and crossing over the Center line.

But it was a catch 22, Ride during the day, Lots of traffic, extreme risk of getting run off the road or simply stuck in traffic, lots of Police and heavy trucks to ruin the fun, but at least it was bright and sunny and your vision was better.
or
Ride when it was dark and Early, vision was worse, but the roads were clear of Tourist drivers and trucks, I pretty much had 30km of road to myself to play on (never once saw the Police at time of day either)

I would ride up and ride down the Range all before most people were getting out of bed, by the time I reached the bottom of the range (roughly 6 - 6:30am) the traffic was starting to head up the range for the day, I would be riding home for Breakfast with a Smile on my Dial set to last all week!  [thumbsup]

Here's a simple caveat: If you do crash, odds are they won't find you until the next morning.

A idiot good friend I know crashed on a night ride. He had to wait until early in the morning (with a compound fracture) before someone found him and got him medical attention.

So, from that point of view, the dark of the morning is way better than the dark of night.

30 years ago, I used to love riding at night, particularly in the summer.  I'd ride with friends up to and through Angeles Crest, or out to the desert to watch meteorite showers.  BUT...always rode with a group, and we dialed it down.   I recall it as being a lot of fun as you concentrate on the road, nothing else to distract you.

My night vision is crap now and will only ride in the dark if I'm out later than I thought and need to get to my destination.

For many reasons, not the least of which is the likelihood of being around angry and/or drunk drivers.   Getting up a little after 4am and being out on the bike by 5-5:30 makes riding very pleasant, and it only gets better as the sun rises.  Traffic is very light.  Drunks are home.  Few people wake up hating the world, so you're less likely to get road-raged as the first other vehicle they encounter.    Around here we have to be on the lookout for turkey in the mornings, deer at night.  So know what to be looking for, and always tell somebody what you are doing, where you are planning to go and for how long, and to expect a call from you later on letting them know they don't need to send out the hounds. 

Yes. Get up early in the morning, maybe.

I might add, I told my Wife I was going on a Ride and that I would be back by a Particular time, so in the off chance that something did go wrong and I wasn't home by a certain time, or hadn't made contact, then time to send out the search party.

Sometimes I wouldn't come back down the same way, I would go for a ride over the Mountains and return by a different Range, so I would pull over and stretch my legs, send her a Text/SMS about my new plan and then ride on.

It was always a handy back up in case my early morning ride tits up.