Ducati Monster Forum

Been a bit busy riding and enjoying but I had to drop a line and give mad props and  [thumbsup] to the guys over at mota-lab. 

I grabbed the MWR filter & the MWR power up kit from them.  In addition I sent them my stock ECU and had them flash a tune for the new intake(s) along with my Termi slip-ons (also removed the exhaust flap and O2 sensors).  Finally got this stuff all installed and hooked up yesterday and the bike feels completely different.  The 1100 was a torque brute to begin with, but you can taste the difference this makes (I gotta really assume the tune made the biggest difference having tuned and bolted-on other vehicles in my time, I can tell what a good tune can do vs. an intake).  The bike starts right up (imagine that!), I can ride around in first and second with no issues/jerking/lurching at all (I had read someone else say this but I was completely skeptical), and of course the power in every gear is dramatically increased.  So yeah, if anyone has any questions hit me up.  Here's the rundown of the relavant mods:

M1100 w/ABS
Termi Slip-ons w/o DBkillers
MWR Intake Filter
MWR Power-Up Kit
Mota-Lab ECU Tune

Oh, I forgot to mention, the intakes and ECU flash all came in under $500 including shipping.  So yeah, it's a great freaking way to go if you don't want to splurge for the WASP kit.  Leaves money in the wallet for the PC V + Autotune... which I'll do later in the summer I think... for the moment I don't really think it's necessary... I'm very happy!  [Dolph]

Thanks Mota-Lab!  [bacon]

havent seen you here for a bit!

thats one killer price. though i cant say im a big fan of pod filters for a commuting bike. cant imagine you need more torque on an 1100!

we are having a dim sum meet n greet tomorrow in queens, theres about 4 guys from NYMMC boards coming along if your down to show the bike off for a bit. I cant stay to ride unforuntely, just going to grab some food and then head off to school. check out the local board for details.

Yeah this job I've been working for over a year now has me working about 70 hours a week with no days off and no time to frequent the board, but I'm still around! 

Sadly though I'll be working all day tomorrow and can't get away... only one day off a month and yesterday I was installing these bad boys!  Sometime this summer though I hope to have some free time so keep me updated!!



Not pod filters... the air box is still maintained.  These are what I installed:
(http://www.mota-lab.com/images/mwr_large/MC-020-08-2.jpg)
&
(http://www.mota-lab.com/images/MC-020-09-Power-Up-2.jpg) (the red bits)
Just required dremeling holes into the air box and screwing filter to it instead.  So I get to maintain the turbulence-free air while stuck in midtown traffic ;-)

(http://d26ya5yqg8yyvs.cloudfront.net/nod.gif)  More than one way to skin a duCATi  [thumbsup] [thumbsup] [thumbsup]. 

Did you use a 696 midpipe to de-flapper your exhaust?

Not yet, it's definitely in the plans... just need to pick one up cheap somewhere.  I'll probably aim to do it the same time I go with the PC Autotune because I assume it'll be a good time to do the O2 Sensors and the pipe at the same time.  For now I just yanked the motor out.  Bike runs fine, but I'm sure it'd run a little better without that thing in the middle there.

Awesome info!  I'd been looking at the MWR filters...looks like I'll be adding this to my already long to do list!!! 

Do it!  Wish I had done it sooo much sooner, if the bike felt like this from the factory it would hands down be the best bike (in its category) on the market!

I can see the future...I'm envisioning a very angry wife this summer  ;D

numbers man! numbers!

my 796 pulled a 75 on the dyno, bone stock, i now have an air filter, slip-ons, and sprocket, feels like a totally different beast, i havent flashed the ecu yet as money has been tight the last few months, and my 7500 service is coming up and i need a new rear tire... [bang]
i gotta stop riding this thing, but its just too much fun to put down

Thanks for the feedback Amlethae!

I have been thinking of getting the MWR filter set (including the power up kit) for my 1100 EVO. My main question is: Do I really need to re-flash the ECU to see a change?

My knowledge is very limited so please excuse me if i don't make any sense. 

My stock Monster still has the O2 sensor and I would think my stock ECU should regulate the fuel mix air/gas on its own.  I am expecting that the new filter set will allow the engine to breath easier and thus improve the combustion.  Just like a KN&N filter increases hp in a car without requiring a reflash or chance of the ECU.

I would appreciate everyone's advice on this.
Thanks!

apparently the ecu only reads the O2 sensors under 2% throttle, the rest of the time its just on closed loop, making having the o2 sensors pretty much pointless

Incorrect.  And a complete misunderstanding of what is and is not open and closed loop.  For a proper explanation of open vs closed loop try this >> http://www.bikeboy.org/open_closed_loop_efi.html (http://www.bikeboy.org/open_closed_loop_efi.html)

No. But your Monster would be running too lean IMO (they already run on the lean side as stock in order to scrape thru emissions compliance testing).  So if you add the ability in inhale more air, you ought really to match that by adding the ability to inject a corresponding increase in fuel.  Nothing to be gained by just breathing more air if there's no accompanying additional fuel.  One way to increase the fuelling rate is to have your ECU reflashed accordingly.  Another is to add a piggyback fuelling device such as a PCV.  There are arguments in favour of each, which I wont go into here.
 
The stock O2s are narrowband lambdas.... all they do within the closed loop is report back to the ECU "too lean" or "too rich" around a target AFR of 14.7:1.  They dont measure by how much too lean or rich.  So... for arguments sake, if you added your MWR intake kit and did nothing else, within the closed loop the ECU would simply report "too lean" earlier than it did when the intake was stock.  The ECU would add fuel - not more fuel.. but an amount to bring you equal to where you were before you leaned it out - thus gaining absolutely nothing at all.  A self defeating circle.

Outside of the closed loop - in stock open loop.... which from memory is something like above 4500rpm - the O2 sensors do nothing at all.  Fuelling is controlled entirely by the ECU's integrated fuel mapping.  Its here in open loop that your bike will run too lean.  The ECU will order up the same fuelling rate as it always did, although with your MWR kit you'll be drawing in a greater proportion of air to go with that predefined fuel.  And therefore be too lean.

It doesnt.  It simply allows freer airflow.  And as I've been attempting to describe, you dont get more power from a leaner AFR, but rather having the ability to inhale more air combined with an appropriate increase in fuel will generate more power.

Hope that helps.

 Thats a good explanation Unge.

Please continue the education.......................


If I do all of the above that the OP did including the ECU flash, what will the Power Commander V gain me? If the ECU is reflashed does that not cause the bike to run "less lean"? Isn't that esentially what the PCV do "on the fly"?


Mark

i think it would depend on how the reflash was done and the settings, the pcv could be fine tuned to run whereever you are, but if you have access to software you can retune it yourself, it can be just as good

I'm at the stage  Amlethae is now. I've got the MWR kit and a Rexxer flash on my 1100s. At this point my bike runs great and my service tech agrees. I have thought about PCV + autotune, but my bike is tuned so well now I think it would be a complete waste of money. Could I squeeze out another 1 or 2 hp? Maybe, but is worth another $500? Not to me.
  [Dolph]

If your setup is similar to the OPs...... MWR... slip on exhaust.... then it ought be possible to have your ECU reflashed to get pretty damn close.  All that a PCV will provide - on top of a good reflash closely tailored for you setup - is the ability to fine tune, either on a Dyno or as I do, by using Autotune. 

I'm running a WASP intake kit so coming up with a reflash ideal for that was - at the time - not exactly available, a near guess at what would be required was the best option.  I chose to go with known mapping for a less radical option and build my own fine tune on top of that.  The outcome works very well for me, but depending on your setup is not absolutely necessary as DucNaked has already pointed out.

So are there different types of re-flashes? Can my '09 M1100 have it's ecu flashed different ways?


Sorry for the basic questions, I just want to understand before I do anything.


Mark

well you can get a generic map which can cover slip ons and air filter, or a custom map depending on your application, you can get custom maps made for you get a dyno sheet with the air/fuel, and send it with the ecu and if they can do a custom map to fix the a/f and they can make it run mint if its done right

Thank you for the thorough response Unge and all...

I am definitely going to try the MWR kit and the ECU reflash.  However, I will keep my stock exhaust as I cannot afford the Termis. 
I assume I can just remove the flap? Are there DB killers in the stock exhaust I could remove? and would it make any difference?

If I understand correctly, I have to let the re-flasher (e.g, Mota-Lab) know what my configuration is and they will hook me up with the best map for it?

This sounds like the best (bang for buck) mod I can get to increase the power of my stock monster...

The short answer is yes.  Though put simply, there's only one ideal fuelling map for whatever intake/exhaust setup you arrive at. 

But there are as many mapping variations as there are intake and exhaust combos, mine will be different to yours.  Mine has the rev limiter raised to 9,500rpm, others prefer to wring it out to 10,500rpm....  the permutations are almost endless.

On M1100/M1100s the easiest and least costly way to make the exhaust flapper gate go away is to fit an M696 midpipe.  Not sure what your options are on 1100EVO. Stock exhaust systems dont generally tend to have removable baffles (unless you core 'em that is). There are other less costly options than Termis........  [evil].

Yes.   

True  [thumbsup]

If its done right, sure.  You have to bear in mind that a custom map produced in this manner is the map tuner's (mota-lab, rexxer) best  estimation of what variation in fuelling will be required to get you from where you are to where you ideally need to go.

Guys, thanks for all of the thoughtfull and informative information. This may be the path I seek going forward.

Mau, just because you cannot afford Termi's (I was unwilling to pay their price too) there are TONS of other options for slip-on's that will give you several different looks/sounds for less money. Look at the sticky above that is titled "unofficial 696/1100 exhaust thread" or something like that. You will see a pleathora of other very good options.


Mark

Hi Everyone,

Sorry I've neglected this thread - didn't realize people were still talking on it.  I've recently added the PCV + Dual-Autotune to my set up and I gotta say the difference is quite noticeable.  The bike just feels richer, power and punch is there a lot more readily, BUT the amazing thing is that for the most part the auto-tune has leaned out the map for each cylinder; my MPG has gone up about 4-5mpg  and definitely feels stronger.  The MWR stuff and reflash is certainly an upgrade and Motalab did a great job with the flash (I had them remove the O2 sensors incase I went this added step) but the PCV stuff on top of it really makes a world of difference.  I used Ung's "KISS" afr table which works great.  So yeah, if you have any specific questions let me know.  Very happy with these results.

Leaned it out everywhere or just in some areas of the map?  Just means that the reflash was fuelling richer "off the peg" than the AFR targets you're now using to dynamically control fuelling with Autotune. 

[thumbsup]

Oh yeah, didn't lean it out everywhere.  Richened down on the low end about 1500-2250 and then starts leaning in the cruise area 2-20% throttle 2500-4000 RPM.  Seemed to bump a little richer when grabbing fist fulls of throttle which is right.  The bike is definitely more responsive and is eating my worn clutch pack [evil] new one on the way before it starts slipping unreasonably.