Ducati Monster Forum

Is it wise for couple's with kids to ride 2-up?

I always thought it strange when married couples ride 2-up? Is it really wise to both be in an accident same time?  Who takes care of who then due to injury? Bills? Loss of job?  etc
( most jobs fire you if you don't show up 2 work in 30 days even if u critically ill At hospital ). Know a rider guy that it happen to at my previous job.

Do you ride in the same car? Fly on the same airplane?

R u HONESTLY gonna tell me the probability of an accident is the same ? a motorcycle vs the other modes of transportation?

Is it wise? You want to apply logic to something as unnecessarily frivolous as riding motorcycles??

No.

Although IMO "accidents" never are accidents, but thats a whole other debate.

I don't think so. Accidents are just that, but moto accidents tend to be more serious. So do plane accidents, but they're obviously a lot more rare.

My wife and I won't ride 2-up since we've had our son.

I tend to agree with that; however, sometimes good moto riders get caught up in stupid car driver's bad choices. At that point it doesn't really matter.

My wife and I ride 2up regularly. We have four kids. They love going pillion too.

With the precious cargo on the back you bet I am extra vigilant, very defensive, very selective of where and when we ride, quiet roads, etc. AGAT as well.

But there's no guarantees.

You blessed buggers! My wife won't ride pillion anymore. Hasn't really done so for nearly 10 years.

If your Mrs wants to go pillion, I say "let it be done!"  ;D

GK

Same here except I only have 3 kids.
Everything we do has some inherent risk.  We just try to keep it to a minimum while still doing what we like   

Fixed.

I am of the opinion that accidents are generally out of your control and therefore should be treated as prepared for but not thought of for the idea of if you keep it on the forefront of your mind, you are more likely to have something happen...

now, that being said...I completely understand where this thought process comes from and I will not attack it or say that it is wrong...but I will say, just make sure regardless of what you do, make sure your ducks are in a row and all logistics are covered and you have an action plan in place that is known and if possible, legally situated on paper as such, and live life for what is to come and not for what may happen...

I wouldn't do it. In fact I didn't do it.

The wife and I rode for ten years when we were young and carefree. Put a lot of great memories in the bank. But when the time came for kids, the bike went out to pasture. Time goes by and now that the kids are grown, the two-wheeled option again awaits in the garage.

Lets face it, there's enough risk in riding in the best of circumstances. Why double it? Sometimes we just have to give up something we love for the greater good.

Just my $0.02 worth. 

in case of accident make sure you have enough disability insurance to cover your bills, not just the long-term care your company provides.  just saying...

My wife has her own bike, and now that our daughter has reached the age of majority, she has a couple bikes as well.

PhilB

We've got a few kids and my wife won't ride because of them, which I understand and respect. My philosophy is never let fear dictate whether you'll do something you enjoy.  I have this debate all the time with my father in law (ER doctor who sees the aftermath) who hates my dirtbikes, Monster and some of my other hobbies because they're "risky".  I'd rather live a great life doing the things that make me happy than a *possibly* longer, boring one. 

You do realize there are more people than not that would question whether YOU should ride a motorcycle PERIOD. Not here of course, but in the general population. As soon as you start questioning what someone else should do, someone will start questioning what you are doing.

Let those people who ride two up do it, it is frankly nobody else's business.

 live life for what is to come and not for what may happen...

agree with this

+1.

PhilB

Lots of couple scuba dive together.  Lots of couples scuba dive with their 12+ yo kids.  Which is riskier; scuba diving or motorcycling?

It all comes down to how much risk people are willing to accept, but it would be wise to have life insurance and probably godparents if one's recreation choices are inherently risky.

I cannot think of a less helpful or more non-sensical aphorism.

Exactly.

Do what you want and feel comfortable with as it's your business, but plan for the unexpected. ALL parents should since accidents happen anywhere/anytime, but especially those who engage in so-called "risky" activities.

It's not really wise, but <shrug>, whatever.  It's up to the couple.  Just make sure you have long-term disability insurance, life insurance and disability insurance.  

That said, I haven't been two-up with the Blonde since we spawned.  She says part of the reason is b/c we could both die (which is pretty likely considering how dumb I ride).  But more, it's that my Duc sucks for passengers (though the scooter is awesome!), and we never have a babysitter to watch the kids while we frolic.  

More important, once you have kids, you don't do anything with your spouse anymore.  Other than the twice-yearly humping on anniversary and your birthday. 

 [laugh]   [thumbsup]

That's it!  I am never going to anything with my wife, ever again.  I can not take a chance of having both of us get wiped out at the same time.  I am not even going to be in the same house at the same time nor sleep in the same bed.  The thought of my child growing up without one of us is unbearable!






 [cheeky]

I'm all for safety and prudence and all, but I don't get the mindset that holds to the idea that getting on a motorcycle should be viewed as an imminetly fatal act.  To those people I say, "Maybe you should just stay at home, but don't get out of bed because statistics show that an overwhelming percentage of fatal accidents occur when not in bed."

Exactly what I was going to say... You do sleep in the same bed which is on the other side of the house from the kids bedroom.. right..

It was a curious question.  I am not married and don't have kids.  So I pretty much do whatever the hell I want and that includes rides. :-)

I don't think anyone here is saying that. It's just a risk thing. Like it or not, riding a moto is riskier than not riding one. If I could be sure that I would never be in a moto accident unless I, and I alone, did something to cause it then I would ride all over the place with my wife, despite having a young son. I trust my ability. Unfortunately, operating any motor vehicle on public roads requires a certain level of trust be placed in the asshats around you. If one of them hits you, you're safer in a car than on a moto. Personally that level of risk is too high for me to accept. That's our choice...I don't expect anyone else to follow it.

As an example...about 10 years ago my wife was sitting in her SUV at an intesection in the left turn lane, with another SUV behind her. A douchbag decided to rear end the SUV behind her at a high rate of speed. It totaled both SUVs, and launched them out into the intersection. The impact was hard enough that neither vehicle could be driven. She was sore, but OK; however, if she had been on a moto there's a good chance she would have been killed. Seriously injured for sure. No fault of her own and unavoidable. She narrowly missed being hit by a street car when she shot out into the intersection, so there wasn't even an escape route had she seen the guy coming (whcih she couldn't).

I still race motorcycles, and when our son is old enough we'll all ride dirtbikes...so it isn't a motorcycle risk, it's a traffic risk.

I think it totally depends on what kind of riding you are doing 2-up.  But I don't see an issue with riding 2-up when you have kids.

True.

There's also a heap of people in the general population that look at us when we ride and say to themselves "I wish!"

GK

I've been riding for about 6 years now and around 30,000 miles and I've always ridden solo until recently when I took my wife for a ride.  She loves it and honestly, I enjoy riding with her.  We don't ride at night, we don't drink and ride ever, I have my license and I am cautious when we're both on the bike together.

We have a 10 year old son.

i ride with the whole fam.  maybe someday i'll get them helmets too.

(http://www.indiamike.com/india/attachments/17935d1305860230-bargaining-with-autorickshaws-sixonascooter.jpg)

Ya ain't living if your too scared of dieing. That being said, you have to be able to live with the choices you make. I know the risk's therefore I wear the gear, if by the grace of god I am involved with a crash that hurts me or another that is something I will have to live with. Not in fear of but knowing the consequences. Single with no kids. If it were the opposite, I would think that they would come first.

And one must not underestimate the conjugal benefits of taking the good lady wife for a ride on a Ducati!  [evil]

I have had a couple of accidents that have put me off work for a while. None of them were on the bike. They were around the house. I was also recently told I have a congenital heart condition that requires surgery in the next few months.

My attitude is that there are several other things in my life more likely to kill me than riding.

My wife and I ride 2 up but our kids are teenagers. Didn't do it when they were younger as I had a period off the bike trying to pay for other life necessities. I have never really thought about it until reading this thread.

Everything in life has its risks. The question is whether you let the risk override the benefit in your head.

My friend died diving for sea urchins last week. His body washed up on an empty beautiful beach. He dove for a living for 35 yrs in one of the most beautiful places on earth , the Channel Islands off calif. He lived an incredible life. At his ash scattering yesterday  3-400 people were there and maybe 50 boats loaded with friends and people he knew.  The boats and fellow divers shot off about a hundred flares. It was something we will never forget,he was a legend. After this ,there was a barbecue and paella for 400 with flamigo dancers....does it get any better than that . LiVE IT UP!!

I have always been a huge advocate of people with small children to ride separate bikes, just because if there is an accident, there is less of a chance that your kids will be orphans.....BTW, my wife is still recovering from a woman turning left in front of her. She was in a wheelchair for 9 weeks and after 14 weeks still is not using her left arm. While she has been out of commission, I had to alter my work schedule to get my 7-yr old daughter to-and-from school. Had we both been on the bike, we would have had a very tough time with everything.

There's also another flip side to the situation - if both of you are injured while on a bike, chances are the medical bills will be double (naturally). With most people carrying low coverages and not having anything to sue them for, one person vs. two people leaves better odds of some finanical compensation if the accident was caused by someone else. For the record, a broken left shoulder/arm and broken right fibula nad ligamant damage for my wife is over $100k and still climbing. Her crushed left hip and leg from a 2003 accident was over $500k in INITIAL medical bills in 2003. Ongoing medical costs from both of these accidents should place her over the $1,000,000 in about 2-3 more years or probably with only one more surgery.

Edit - On the topic of flying commercially, I have met many couples with small children who actually take two different planes when flying. It is all about mitigating those risks that you are not prepared to deal with.

The two up riding that we used to do typically involved solo riders not being able to keep up as we were dragging hard parts all the time. I never dragged a knee riding two-up, but was told I was awefully close on a lot of occasions. Also, our riding, solo or two-up, is typically 95+% mountain twisty riding. Since getting on sportbikes in 2000, I've had two life flights in air ambulance helicopters. In the same amount of time, my wife has been hit by two cars (not my wife's fault). Due to our riding environment, how we ride, and the idiot drivers around here, we opt to err on the side of safety and choose to ride separate bikes. Interestingly, prior to the 2003 accident, my wife was one of the faster riders around, wearing out knee pucks, and once had a guy offer to sponsor her if she wanted to try some club racing.

My wife and I used to ride two-up before we had our munchkins, my wife had her own bike till then as well and I took a brief hiatus from road bikes too.  But to be honest there were greater risks in life then both of us on the one bike at the same time! My work had greater risks and people have died in the past doing that, I chose to give up the best job I have ever had for my children but I am still riding but my wife chooses not to!

On the other hand my eight year old daughter wants to ride with me now and my wife and I aren't sure! It is legal here but still.........!   

+1 Brazilian.

We also dive (scuba) together, ski together, fight in martial arts tournaments (ok, not at the exact same time usually) etc

HONESTLY, we do NOT ride 2-up MUCH, cause she has her own bikes.

That said, we DO NOT HESITATE TO on occassion.

Our daughters have a huge extended family, fantastic god-parents/guardians, and would receive about $800k in life insurance benefits.

Bottom line, life is a terminal condition and though we do take what we feel are reasonable steps to minimize risks we're also not going to stop living based just on the fact that we have kids.

One problem I see with many married couples is that they forget the kids wouldn't be there if not for the relationship between the husband and wife. As such, they forget to maintain that relationship just cause kids have entered into the equation. The first step in providing a happy/healthy home for those kids is to give them two happy parents in a healthy relationship.

+ freaking 1!

PhilB

+2
On a warm Summers evening, a ride thru the local hills or valley vinyards for dinner or down to Melbournes Little Italy for  gelati or affogato. A great date night!

Hussan like, Hussan liiiiike!  ;D

GK

Many people don't have family that they would trust to raise their children with the same values and attention that they can provide themselves. In some families, the extended family is so messed up with convicted criminals, total opposite value systems, and complete different work ethics (not to mention ideals and values of raising children), that parents have no idea who they'd want to raise their kids. Consider yourself fortunate.

$800k, huh? Ask anyone who grew up without a parent if $800k would make up for it. I seriously doubt any of them would tell you they'd rather have the money than their parent(s) back.....well, unless it was an abusive parent. I know my cousins who lost their mother in '75 and father in '82, and were left millions and a family machining business, would have gladly given it all back to not have been motherless at ages of 3, 8, and 10 and orphaned at 10, 15, and 17. Their live-in maid raised them until they each reached 18, and their trust funds disappeared pretty quickly afterward. My youngest cousin wishes she had one, just ONE memory of her mother.

unfortunate accident your wife had Desmo Demon.  Glad she's around to enjoy the family.  My wife and I always ride together and for that reason we carry very high insurance and long-term disability to boot......just in case.  BUT we will never stop riding unless circumstance dictates otherwise; we will then start flying experimental aircraft.  ;D

 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

One of my favorite cartoons of all time.

We have no intentions to quit riding unless we are no longer physically capable of doing so (my wife has been riding with a paralyzed leg for six years). We just opt to very rarely ride two-up, especially while our daughter is so young....

I've been wanting to get my pilot's license and buy a plane. I vow to have my private pilots certification in less than five years and a plane in less than seven. I'll probably go with a Cessna 172 or may spend the extra bucks for a Mooney.

We've only ridden two-up once since the kiddo was born, then decided it would be wiser if we ride separately for now.  With a young toddler it's not like we get many chances to anyway.

I started to get my pilots license and then my wife started buying shit.  [bang]
two years and I'll finish.

DD - I didn't suggest the money was a substitute, but it would certainly remove some worldly worries from their guardians.

The most important points were

A. Have excellent guardians lined up.

B. Keep working on your relationship.

C. Remember that all our "times" will come. Life is full of risk and sure you can take steps to reduce it, but at what cost,  see B.

I have a 2 1/2 year old kid. The minute she was "knowingly" conceived, the passenger pegs were taken off the bike. When she gets older (like in her late teens), then I'll think about getting the wife back on the bike. Until then, the mrs is grounded.

There's living life and there's being responsible. Having a kid grow up without either parent isnt. Sure there are plenty of ways we could get hurt without riding a motorcycle but its common sense that its one of the most dangerous. As a parent you do your best to reduce unnecessary risk.

Everytime you ride, you're putting your life in not only your hands/ability, but also in the drivers around you. From what I've seen on the roads of late, in my book, about 50% aren't qualified to handle an emergency scenario.

Pay attention next time you get on the freeway. You'll notice as I have that people seem to drive in clusters, akin to a zombie hoard or a school of fish. They're completely oblivious to their surroundings.

With all the distractions today its only getting worse...

We've all heard the old saying "its not a matter of if you've crashed, but when you'll crash". I consider it like a game of russian roulette. With one bullet in the revolver, the odds are actually in your favor. But does that mean you should play?  As an individual, I ride all the time, but not my kid and not my wife (on the street)

That said, if you want to ride with your family. Get a dirtbike and go trail riding. Its just as fun if not MORE fun. I think that is a acceptable way of balancing risk and reward.

Seems a bit selfish.   [thumbsdown]

not really, my wife had fun on the bike but she doesnt have a passion for it like I do. she's just as happy if we take our bicycles on the trail behind our house and go for an evening ride.

As riders ourselves, we assume that everyone should or will love riding as much as we do. That's not always the case.

What I've observed is that one person's assumed "common sense" is another person's idiocy.

I'd be curious to see stats on the relative risks of motorcycling vs bicycling, skiing, scuba diving,  using ladders,  how about smoking or obesity.

Motorcycle accident statistics are heavily skewed toward inebriated and untrained riders with probably heavy influences for speed and, if they tracked it, location.

There's a huge difference between a NY, Philly,  Atlanta, or L.A. rush hour freeway and the back country roads my daughter and I ride weekly.

Gear,  experience,  and approach are hugely mitigating as well.

So it's not only not black and white, but I find it a far cry from the reactionary attitudes some express here.

Personally I also find it hypocritical for one to conclude it's NOT OK for both parents to ride,  but it's ok for the other. Those people need to exercise, avoid excessive consumption,  and generally live in a bubble because it's "unfair" to deprive a child of even one parent right?

Your whole premise is based on a direct causal relationship, which is not what I'm talking about. If I climb a ladder and fall off and hurt myself because I didnt follow safety procedures, its a direct causal relationship. If I am sitting at a stop light waiting for it to turn green and I get run over from behind by a texter not paying attention its a completely different argument.

Based on this statement, smoking obesity are out. So if you want to compare apples to apples, do it right.

I'm willing to bet that there are more accidents and injuries that are no fault of the rider than there are for any of the others you mentioned.

I'm not sure if this was a general comment or directed specifically at EEL, but there have been a number of us posting that we don't feel comfortable riding together because of the risk of both parents getting in an accident together, but still ride separately.

Getting run over from behind is a highly preventable occurrence.  Watch your mirrors and have an escape route.

Direct causal? Not sure I agree, the whole thread is about mitigating risk no?

As for accidents,  I don't buy the term unless and act of God/nature. As far as I'm concerned the impetus remains on the biker not to become a statistic, meaning I still put the blame on the rider even if technical "fault" is on someone else.  But that strays from the point of the discussion.

Some - riding separate means both still ride and removes that couple from the hypocrisy.

For a lot of people (and relating to the original question), losing both parents is worse than losing one, so riding separately mitigates that risk.  I don't think that's a big risk if you ride well and carefully, wear ATGATT, etc., but it could happen.

EEL's first post came off as selfish; HE was going to ride no matter what, but his wife was "grounded" for the duration.  He has since explained himself better, and it makes sense.

It's all about judging the risks, and doing so realistically.  Someone above had a history of hard riding, and he and his wife had each had multiple serious accidents; they might be much better off riding separately.  Others who maybe tour or live in low traffic areas, or otherwise have lower risks might judge that to be not as much of an issue.  Someone above mentioned couples who take separate airline flights because of this worry, and realistically, that's just silly.  But for each, it's their own choice, and they have the right to it.

PhilB

Sometimes, but not always.

I had butter on my waffles this morning.

Yes, but did you eat them alone, or did you irresponsibly eat them with your wife, at the same time, thus risking orphaning your children with simultaneous heart attacks?  Huh?  DID YOU?

:D

PhilB

While I agree with much of what you said, the simple truth is the same accident in a car produces much different consequences on a motorcycle. For that reason a motorcycle ride is simply an ineherently risky event, even with all prevention and riding focus being utilized.

I'm not saying couples with children are irresponsible for choosing to ride, but I would say those couple who decide not to have a perfectly justified reason for making that decision.

You're probsbly dead by now. ;D

Well of course, but so are the results of a plane crashing or a ski lift falling to the ground or divers being left in the open sea by their dive boat... thing is, you play the odds. And though none of those things are completely unpreventable, none are particularly likely. Same is true with being fatally rear ended on a bike, ESPECIALLY if you're diligent.

But what do I know, I've only been riding some 20 years and more than a couple hundred thousand miles.  ;)




I find "perfectly justified" a patently ridiculous risk analysis, especially from a motorcyclist. Kinda like the time I was selling a Jeep with ski racks and the buyers didn't want them because "they would never do something reckless like that." But it takes all kinds I guess.


Don't get me wrong, to each his own, but I'm free to roll my eyes at the ultra conservatives no?

Was it your anniversary or your birthday?