Ducati Monster Forum

So I got my motorcycle license this year because I saw Akira when I was a kid and never gave up the desire to be Kaneda.  Naturally, this is a common topic of my recent conversations, during which everyone tells me about a brother/cousin/friend that was killed/paralyzed/maimed while riding a motorcycle.  Literally everyone has said this.  Not the best way to steer the conversation, but frankly I appreciate the constant reminder of the dangers of riding.  Keeps me safe and defensive.

The thing is, whenever I hear someone talk about their moped/scooter (or their plans to buy one), I never hear any safety warnings nor anyone jump in to tell a story about a tragic scooter accident.  Never.  And yet, every day I see people in my city driving 30 mph through traffic-filled streets in flip flops, shorts, etc.  Basically this, but often without the helmet (poor dog):

(http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii603/1pt21GW/1074341167_1a2739d92d_o.jpg)


So what gives?  I would think they have more serious accidents than motorcyclers.  Does Vespa have a team of men-in-black that quickly descend on accidents and remove evidence?  Or is scootering just safer somehow?  Just seems strange to me.

I think it's partly because scooters are not ridden the same way (fast) and you can easily step off of a scooter (step thru design) if something happens. 

Also, 90% of the people I've seen on a vespa were chicks and are less likely to be subjected to road rage.

i hate to stereotype but let's look at the type of people that ride each.

most people that ride scooters are for local urban transport.  they are not going far nor fast.  they might ride aggressively but their mileage in a given year will be limited.

those who ride motorcycles are probably more adrenaline junkies.  some more than others of course.  many will ride fast AND aggressively.  some won't.  again, some crash and die, some rack up over a million miles without crashing. 

aggressive riders think they are indestructible.  this may cause more crashes.  both probably get into the same number of actual accidents. 

let's consider cars for a second.  who has the highest insurance rates.  young males.  what demographic rides motorcycles primarily.  young males. 

That's a sweet smallframe in your pic.  Nicely done.

I started on scooters, and rode them for several years.  I still dig scooters and have a collection of vintage scoots.
Scooters are indeed just as dangerous as motorcycles.
But they look all cute and non-threatening to the average person, not like some scary death machine.

The great majority (if not all) of the people issuing these sorts of warning know exactly zero about motorcycles, riding, or dangers.
All they know is the propaganda, stuff they've heard from equally uninformed people, and their emotional reactions.

Take the MSF, get good gear and wear it, buy a sensible bike to start with, ride carefully and sober.
Keep your risks to as low a level as you reasonably can, and then live your own life without concern for what the weenies think.

PhilB

I imagen like others have said its the perception of scooters as being non-threatening and go ahead and brace yours self for everyone and their brothers, cousins, uncles that have/had a Ducati and the millions of questions starting with "is it supposed to be all open like that."

Agreed.  But at the same time, I figured the scooter environment is rich with obstacles.  Obviously, loosing traction on gravel around a sharp turn at 40mph is a motorcycle thing, not likely to be something a scooter rider is doing.  However, if you look at all the delivery trucks, aggressive cab drivers, pedestrians crossing randomly, etc. in NYC or my 'hood in Philly, which is where there ARE a lot of scooters, it just seems a formula for bad things to happen.  Plus, don't most accidents happen like 2 mi or something from home?

I say, happy dog.

 [thumbsup]

Yep that perception seems to be a lot of it. And there's also the 50 cc barrier. In my general area you don't need an M licence, insurance, or registration (yep no tags) to operate a 50cc scooter. Because anyone can just hop on one they never go to the MSF course or similar and learn or have someone talk about gear - or even basic applicable laws.

My former neighbor got a modern 150 Vespa and had no clue that it wasn't legal for her to be operating it (No M endorsement), that she couldn't park on the side walk (50s can) and that she's legally supposed to be wearing impact rated eye wear/face shield. This similar ignorance/lack of though extended to her 'gear' which was just street clothes.

Like her, most folks see scooters as 'slow' and don't process that even slow vehicles can mess you up.

My fave tactic is to ask folks to/what they think would happen if they ran down the street as fast as their feet can carry, and then throw themselves at the pavement. Of course they respond that it would hurt they would get pretty messed up and it's a horrible notion. I point out that they can probably run at about 12 mph.

Beats walking I guess.  I'd rock one if my commute was only a couple miles in the city.

Yes, you are capable of killing yourself on one of these things and I agree, I almost never see scooter riders wearing any gear other than a helmet (and it is usually one of those half helmets like the hot chick in the original post is wearing, and it usually matches the paint on the bike... not that there's anything wrong with that of course).  ;)

I have seen scooter riders wearing full gear but it is extremely rare.  What really cracks me up is the modified scooter scene.  A scooter with a Yoshi pipe?  Not sure what the point of that is... to make noise I guess?   [laugh]

There's folks who race scooters. Some of the 'serious' classic Vespa or Lambretta modded race scoots would do well over the ton.

This.  Most people think "scooter", they think 50cc and 30 mph.  But there have long been scooters that are much larger and more capable.  In the classic period, 150 to 200 cc was common, and most of those will to 60-70mph on level ground.  One of mine is a 1962 Maico that has a 275cc 2-stroke, and will do over 80mph.

In the '80's, there were quite a few very capable scooters in the 250cc range available.  One guy actually did the full Iron Butt rally on a Honda Helix 250.  And he finished, which was the goal -- over 9000 miles in 11 days is the minimum to finish that.  (Actually winning it takes more like 14,000 miles in that 11 days, but the Helix guy wasn't attempting that.)

Modern scoots are even more than that -- most of the major manufacturers have mega-scooters in the 400cc to 650cc range that will do everything a mid-size motorcycle will do, in more comfort and carrying more stuff.

PhilB

Yeah, I had a GS 160 that would get up over 60 indicated on a flat even with that big shield. The 200+ were even faster. And now the Burgmans are as big as bikes, displacement size and general proportions

"The thing is, whenever I hear someone talk about their moped/scooter (or their plans to buy one), I never hear any safety warnings nor anyone jump in to tell a story about a tragic scooter accident.  Never."

When they have an accident, it is mostly called a "motorcycle" accident and not a "moped/scooter" accident.

Sweet!  The GS160 was THE classic Vespa, the Ace Face bike.  If you've still got it, they are worth quite a bit these days.

PhilB

Wish I did, it was a '64. It got lost in the wilds of life due to college, parental move (where it was stored) and such. I hope it's still out there some place...

Mopeds can certainly be as dangerous. Moped driver killed here in Reno a couple days ago by a hit and run. http://www.kolotv.com/mobi?storyid=162156675 (http://www.kolotv.com/mobi?storyid=162156675)

I'm talking about this kind of ridonkulousness.  [laugh]

(http://www.tokyo-parts.co.jp/photogallery/pic_zoomer27/sagu_l.jpg)

That's cute.  People will customize anything.  They hot up and drag race Harleys and Volkswagens.  They customize minivans.  You should see the Japanese custom scooter scene (or the Japanese custom *anything* scene for that matter).  I've even heard there are people who will buy a Ducati and bolt on thousands of dollars of bling that does nothing for performance, ride it to Starbucks, and then put proud pictures on the internet.  ;)

Whatever.

PhilB

LOL!  Yeah, all I'm saying is that I don't get it.  I'll just leave it at that.   [drink]

Don't know, he kinda looks concerned to me.  Besides, everyone knows this is the proper way to handle a dog on a bike:

(http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii603/1pt21GW/1.jpg)

No helmet!

short story  ;)

when I was 14 yrs old I was harassing  my dad (big time !)  to have a scooter  [Dolph] ;D

One day, we where in a parking lot going in to a shopping mall ....

 I Shaw a scooter  and I said to my dad " I  want one like that !! " 

As I was pointing at the scooter the guy add a accident Right in front of our eyes [bang]
he was OK but forget the permission of my daddy to have a scooter !  [bang] [roll] [laugh]

scooter are more dangerous that you would think

and now you ride a Monster!  bwahahahaha

Just goes to prove that when a parent says No, the kid will want to not only do it but do it ten times worse. ;D

 [laugh] yeah monster it is  ;D

Many of my friends from back home have Vespa's and Lambretta's and are well into the modding / racing scene including even sidecars. I've owned a few in my time like Gilera Runners and the old Yamaha Bi-Wizz and they are great for buzzing around town on.

Unfortunately the 2 schools I work at now are both 10-15 miles from home and also I'd never been seen dead on a 'ped at a school. I'll be the cool member of staff next year who turns up on a loud n rattly Monster ;)

When I was a kid, I had a Vespa 50cc (50cc was the only one you could get at 14yo), soon modded to 90cc and 19 Dell'Orto carburetor.
At 16yo dumped the 50cc and got a Vespa 125PX (at 16yo, all you could get was 125cc), which I kept for a while.
Scooters, at least the ones back then, were more dangerous than motorcycles. Vespas had very small wheels, and their breaks weren't worth $hit.
Today's scooters are six leaps forward as far as safety goes. Breaking especially.
I keep a XMax 250cc to hoover around my hometown when I go for vacation in the summer, and it feels decently safe.
How people drive scooters in Italy, makes CA line splitting a kids game  ;D

Paging Michael Moore to the white courtesy phone....

ive got a flat black  1964 vespa GL 150 with a p200 motor in it, its probably the scariest bike ive ever ridden.

nothing quite like going 90 on a set of 10" tires with suspension and brakes that are nearly twice my age...

The first motorized two-wheeler I ever rode was a moto in Italy.  Rented one with a buddy, something like $14 for the day.  I asked about a helmet and the guy said $8 extra.  Ha!!  In the US, they make you wear a life vest if you rent a canoe in 4 feet of water.  In Italy, helmets cost extra.

I remember when we went visiting a friend in Naples with our Vespa 125PX (long drive from my home town, especially with a Vespa).
We arrive, tired as hell, set up at his place, took a shower, and were heading out for dinner with our Vespas and our helmets (helmet law was already in place in Italy).
Our Naples friend suggested us to not wear the helmet, or police might have stopped us for suspiciously looking like bag snatchers.
As those were basically the only ones wearing full face helmets (or better, helmets at all) in the hot Naples summer  ;D

Does she flex like a soggy noodle?

I have had short excursions on Vespa 150/250s in downtown Chicago while I worked for a dealer/shop there.  FUN AS HELL!  The 150 especially because of the shorter wheelbase/smaller body style. I rode way more hooligan on the vespa b/c I felt like I could get away with it, splitting lanes like mad, passing in bike lanes, skidding the rear wheel into every stop, etc.  Caught in that strange land between bicycle and motorcycle, where the law deems it one, but the public perception is  cute and harmless.  Like squirrels....cute and furry, but try to cuddle one and its like trying to hold on to a mini bruce lee with razor blades.

The Vespas were very confidence inspiring, good/great brakes, even on Chicago's rough streets.  The two limiting factors were frame flex, which is a very necessary deterrent to pushing any harder...reminding you that you are going very fast on a very small machine, and dragging the kickstand on left handers at surprisingly, shallow lean angles.

Like anything else, once you know your/its limits, its nothing but pure joy to get from A to B on [Dolph]

this tread should be rename " share your mopped stories"   [laugh] [popcorn] cool stories though  [Dolph]

???
(http://www.puppethead.com/photoblog/photos/2007/P1000926.jpg)


 ;D

^^  [laugh]  Put a mop on your mo-ped and you can clean up your competition.  ;D

That thing does look menacing though, almost Grim-Reaperish.

Where's the story to go with this gorgeous mop?

DAINESE MOP IS NOT AMUSED BY YOUR SPELLING ERROR

Brilliant!  [laugh] [laugh]

Well, since we're swapping scooter stories, I figured I'd weigh in with mine.

I own a 2000 M900, a 2010 Streetfighter S, and a 2008 Vespa GTS 250. I commute every day about 26 miles round trip, across the Golden Gate Bridge.  I'd say 90% of the time I'm on the Vespa. It's easier to lane split, and cheaper to run. (Notice I didn't say "cheap"  :) ) Plus if I need to pick up groceries it'll carry a couple of shopping bags worth.  When I ride the SF or Monster to work, it's mostly to get a little blast of badassery. Or cuz I feel like scaring pedestrians that day.

I always get asked about the Vespa, and people think it's a toy, or that it won't go on the freeway. It'll do 82mph (measured by GPS) and from 0-30 it's pretty respectable off the line, meaning it'll beat anything but a high end car driven aggressively (or moto of course) to the next stoplight.  The brakes and suspension aren't bad at all - not Ohlins or Brembo monoblock good, but not inadequate by any means.

As for gear, I ride in my Roadcrafter, full AGV, and gauntlet gloves every day. I may look like a dork, but I figure the pavement doesn't care if you come off a bike or a scoot.  And I ride the thing pretty hard, and a lot of miles (currently 30K+ on the clock), so it just makes sense.

So I guess I'd say if you see someone on a scooter, don't immediately assume they're a noob or unskilled.  Unless they're like that guy I saw riding barefoot down Van Ness the other day. He was an idiot.  ;D

Commute this  ;)


Vespa Racing with Helmet Camera! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDFzbJFgvc8&feature=youtube_gdata_player#)

Like Michael, I have a 2010 Streetfighter and a 2008 Vespa GTS 250. I commute across the Bay Bridge daily on my scoot. I've been in 2 crashes since I started riding (1 on a scoot, 1 on my M1100). Guess which crash was worse? The scoot. I got nailed by a left hand turning limo. Fractured both my wrist and leg and tore my right ACL. The driver said he didn't even see me coming. Scooters are smaller and even less visible than a moto. I wasn't able to brake hard enough to avoid the hit. At least with my moto, I prolly would have locked up and crashed without hitting the limo.

I remember a rider on a Gixxer came up to me when I was about to mount my scooter. He asked a lot of questions and said scooters are much safer. I replied, "If you crashed going 50 mph on your Gixxer and I crashed going 50 mph on my scooter, we would both hurt just the same". He responded, "You can go 50 on that?!" Damn bastard... [roll]

 [laugh] [laugh] sorry for the misspelling it was the "spell check" that made the error  [laugh]

I see your Vespa race and race you this...

Gp di scooter jappo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QY8TcSEI3g#)

:)