Hi chaps,
got an issue with my bike, it has 14000 miles it 'v' reg 1999 m600, what happens is when i start it up it's fine no problems when it warms up it starts knocking, in idle and through the gears except when i'm breaking through the gears it doesn't do it,
any help is appreciated i also have a vid link of the bike...
Ducati Monster M600 Sil Motor Cans (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkSH9d5eIeQ&feature=player_embedded#)
ouch, that does not sound good at all.
can you locate a general area of the motor where the sound seems to be coming from? high, low, left, right, center, etc etc
I would immediately drain the oil into a CLEAN pan, watch it as it drains, and see if it comes out clean or like metallic car paint.
there's a million different things that noise could be, some easily fixable, some not so much. doing the above though will help determine what it could possibly be
also, have you noticed a decrease in power at all? meaning up until now. DO NOT take it out for a rip again after right now to determine the answer to this question, because depending on what's damaged you may end up just making things way worse. check out the things in my above post asap first. I strongly suggest not driving it at all until you at least do that
Nah ive not had a drop in power, the noise seems to be coming from the horizontal cylinder at he top or the cylinder if that make sense haha i'll drop the oil on thursday and report my findings cheers :)
ok, that helps assure something I was guessing from the start:
the knocking sound is doing so at a very low speed, it does not sound like something coming from an internal rotating assembly. my guess based on how fast it's knocking is that it has something to do with a valve, or a timing belt. and if you say it's coming from the top of the horizontal cylinder, either of those things would definitely make sense. after dropping the oil (possibly not necessary, but still suggested just to be completely safe), pop the timing covers off and inspect the belts and all components they connect to. if there's damage, it should stand out. also see if the belts seem overly loose and floppy.
the next thing to check after that is the valve adjustment. you might have 1 single valve that is badly out of adjustment spec, possibly with some form of damage
With only 14k miles, it's probably not this, but I got a nasty rattly noise in my 750, caused by a closer spring breaking.
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4104/4833276012_54034d108c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigiain/4833276012/)
Not what I was expecting to find... (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigiain/4833276012/#) by bigiain (http://www.flickr.com/people/bigiain/), on Flickr
The closer shim retaining rings got belted (I guess the spring tail got between the cam and the follower):
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4129/4848428882_b1e7cb77fd.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigiain/4848428882/)
Ducati Monster vertical exhaust closer half rings keepers (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigiain/4848428882/#) by bigiain (http://www.flickr.com/people/bigiain/), on Flickr
There wasn't any obvious damage to the cam or follower, so I just threw in some new halfrings and re-shimmed and put it all back together. It ran just fine for almost 50,000km after that, until a belt let go… http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigiain/sets/72157627588247974/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigiain/sets/72157627588247974/)
big
WOOOOOOOW!!! I'm actually amazed at how well that piston stood up to that though! just shows how high quality our pistons are. typically with cars the valve head punctures right through the piston splitting it into pieces like it was warm butter
Gents,
I have dropped the oil from my Monster and to my suprise there is no metal apparent in the oil, i have fed the oil through a sieve and run a magnet through the oil and nothing, however there was some gunk on the gauze plug, but if you had seen the state of the oil that is to be expected..... i have done another video which is better quality
M600 rattle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGYjgPK2cHM#)
i have no actual hands-on experience with the valve trains in these motors yet, however i would bet a pretty decent sum of money on something being out of spec in your valve system on that cylinder. the fact that it increases and decreases with rev makes it pretty apparent. time to open it up and find what's making contact and where.
Ok - STOP running the bike! Nothing good can come of an engine making that noise.
How DIY capable are you for opening up the valve train, checking the belts etc?
Things to check (in rough order)
- Check belts, and their alignment and tension. Possible you're belt is loose and slipped tossing off the timing.
- Even if that is the case you need to remove the belts and hand turn the cam pull to check form binding - a sign of damage or bends.
- Open up valve covers and visually inspect the action as you turn, Also look for broken springs, retainers etc. Also check your valve clearances while the covers and belts are off
- Rent/borrow a bore scope to check inside the head for damage - or have the head off.
But not matter what - STOP running that bike
Ok advise taken on board i am pretty hand with cars, which i can swap my theory side over to bikes (and slight tweak of thought process), just one about the tension of the belts how tight do these need to be?? i can put any money they've never been changed and guarantee that they've stretched.
Search for the '5mm Allen method'. Or search youtube for ducati belt change. Chris Kelly (Ca Cycleworks) did a video tutorial on changing 2v belts. He also did one for checking valve clearances which will be helpful too. It'll give you insight on to how the valves should feel when turned by hand. But it's basically they should spin free and easy until you hit the progressive tension of the closer helper spring, which you then 'go over' and it'll pull the cam and pully a bit in your hand. As long as the piston is down (so you're not hitting valves on the face) there should be not sense of drag or bind when you hand turn the cam pully. Just that spring tension.
If the belts have never been replaced... oh dear. They are supposed to be replaced at 12k miles OR 2 years. The tension on them is not very high so stretch hasn't been a historic issue - but they do stiffen and crack if they get too old, especially ones that sit, tensioned a long time - which is probably an apt description of your belts.
So have the belt covers off and budget for a set of new belts - you'll need them no matter what if you're not sure how old the ones you have are. Start inspecting there and go on to the valves.
I'd check the heads first. Pull the horizontal valve access covers and look for anything broken. I'm sure there are pics on this site of how the valve train should look on any of the following motors (600, 620, 695, 750, 800 or 900).
Also of note: I did change out a set of primary drive gears b/c the rivets holding the clutch basket to the transmission input gear had come loose (was even missing 1 of them!). Sounded like a HEAVY rod-knock when running...
(side note: Never did find the missing rivet, motor is still running fine as far as I know!)
Quote from: Duck-Stew on August 02, 2012, 10:41:05 AM
Also of note: I did change out a set of primary drive gears b/c the rivets holding the clutch basket to the transmission input gear had come loose (was even missing 1 of them!). Sounded like a HEAVY rod-knock when running...
(side note: Never did find the missing rivet, motor is still running fine as far as I know!)
so I replaced my oil pump and pickup coils tonight, and after reading this post earlier I decided to check my basket. less than 1500 miles on this basket, and sure enough, the gear has a little play on the basket :(( the rivets are all solid in the gear, but they all shift a little bit in the basket itsself. Imma try to find a shop that has the proper rivet machine and press those suckers down tight
sounds like that belt is off a tooth
Hi everyone, i have checked the belts i can fit a 7mm allen key in both belts
Well, that's too loose. But you also need to check to ensure all the pullies are lined up correctly.
it's a 5mm i think
Yes - 5mm key is what it should be.
I think it's lower in the motor.
I'd pull the side covers and check the flywheel and clutch nuts.
But it doesn't hurt to ensure that the valves, belts etc are in proper trim. A lot easier to check the belts and peek in the valves covers vs. pulling the side cases.
Quote from: Slide Panda on August 03, 2012, 05:23:21 AM
But it doesn't hurt to ensure that the valves, belts etc are in proper trim. A lot easier to check the belts and peek in the valves covers vs. pulling the side cases.
True.
If that noise is a valve/belt issue there will be disassembly required. ;)
Quote from: motoxmann on August 03, 2012, 12:52:24 AM
so I replaced my oil pump and pickup coils tonight, and after reading this post earlier I decided to check my basket. less than 1500 miles on this basket, and sure enough, the gear has a little play on the basket :(( the rivets are all solid in the gear, but they all shift a little bit in the basket itsself. Imma try to find a shop that has the proper rivet machine and press those suckers down tight
Wow! A 2nd case of loose clutch basket to primary drive gear rivet failure... Sounds like mine was a bit more extreme.
Quote from: Duck-Stew on August 03, 2012, 05:33:37 AM
Wow! A 2nd case of loose clutch basket to primary drive gear rivet failure... Sounds like mine was a bit more extreme.
the problem is I have no idea what brand the basket is, it was in the bike when I bought it 1000 miles ago and the previous owner didnt have any receipts. if I knew what brand it was, I could attempt a warranty replacement :( oh well
Quote from: motoxmann on August 03, 2012, 07:52:50 AM
the problem is I have no idea what brand the basket is, it was in the bike when I bought it 1000 miles ago and the previous owner didnt have any receipts. if I knew what brand it was, I could attempt a warranty replacement :( oh well
Wait. Dry-clutch, or wet-clutch? There is NO aftermarket wet-clutch basket. The problem I outlined existed on a wet-clutch 1999 SS750i.e. motor.
Quote from: Duck-Stew on August 03, 2012, 09:20:14 AM
Wait. Dry-clutch, or wet-clutch? There is NO aftermarket wet-clutch basket. The problem I outlined existed on a wet-clutch 1999 SS750i.e. motor.
2000 M750 (carb) wet clutch. So it must be genuine ducati??
Quote from: motoxmann on August 03, 2012, 12:07:02 PM
2000 M750 (carb) wet clutch. So it must be genuine ducati??
Yup. Must be. Rare problem I'm thinking... Yours is only the 2nd I've heard of.
Hey again,
just checked my valves and here's the sketch -
Verticle cylinder.
Exhaust valve* - opening 10/1000ths
closing 3/1000ths
Inlet valve - opening 6/1000ths
closing 5/1000ths
Horizontal cylinder.
Exhaust valve - opening 4/1000ths
closing 9/1000ths
Inlet valve - opening 1/1000ths
closing 9/1000ths
All were done at TDC
Note: on the Verticle cylinder the exhaust valve rocker arm that it makes a loud knocking noise on the valve, and if you add RPM and force from the piston i would be led to believe that, that maybe the noise..... but we will see.