I have a 2004 s4r that I bought with 12,400 miles, a full Titanium Arrow exhaust, and a Dyno Jet PC. The bike now has 18K miles and I have changed the oil, plugs, and air filter (k&n), flushed the radiator, and had a valve job done at about 15K miles. and for the record i weigh approx 170 pounds.
Today I rode some back roads and on a open stretch I couldn't get my bike even to 100mph! I was giving it everything i could and it was REALLY struggling. this is my first duc and i've never had it go faster than 80 or so. but today the engine seemed very noisy; sounded like the valves. is that normal?
anyway, any ideas where I should start trouble shooting? I feel like the bike should have more power than that. should I just take it to the local race shop and have them stick it on the dyno and tune it that way?
thanks for the input!
George
If that bike won't do the ton, there is something wrong with it.
What exactly remains to be determined... and I bow to those with more specific experience.
All I know is that no aircooled monster I have ridden has had a problem with power. A watercooled bike should have less problems with power. [Dolph]
Check that both cylinders are firing
+1 to that, it's my first guess.
That bike should have no issues getting to that speed.
a dirty fuel filter will give those symptoms
forgot to mention... I have replaced the fuel filter as well.
only one or the hole gang ! [popcorn]
Before doing anything check if your clutch plates are all worn down ... from the symptoms it really looks like that's the problem ...
I'm sharing my personal experience . [bang]
if you fiber plates look like that it's time to change ... :o ;D ( after 48000 Km )
(http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l517/jfran745218/100_1665.jpg)
im sorry but his description didnt say anything about his clutch slipping... it sounds more like a lack of power than a lack of friction/traction.
im leaning towards its running on one cylinder. unless your familiar with the ducatis, it can be deceptive. many ppl will think its running on two when its not and u certainly wont be the first or the last!
did u change the fuel filter before or after the issue?
Quote from: ducatigirl100 on August 08, 2012, 07:03:30 PM
only one or the hole gang ! [popcorn]
Before doing anything check if your clutch plates are all worn down ... from the symptoms it really looks like that's the problem ...
I'm sharing my personal experience . [bang]
if you fiber plates look like that it's time to change ... :o ;D ( after 48000 Km )
(http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l517/jfran745218/100_1665.jpg)
I'll take a look at the plates and get back to you. I'd be ecstatic if it was that simple of a fix. I've been suspicious of the clutch slipping anyway. And the drag probably increases exponentially once you get up around 100mph.
Quote from: Roaduser on August 08, 2012, 10:09:00 PM
im sorry but his description didnt say anything about his clutch slipping... it sounds more like a lack of power than a lack of friction/traction.
im leaning towards its running on one cylinder. unless your familiar with the ducatis, it can be deceptive. many ppl will think its running on two when its not and u certainly wont be the first or the last!
did u change the fuel filter before or after the issue?
If this is a possibility, i'll look into it. My only experience with a cylinder misfiring was in a four cylinder car... and the thing ran like crap! I mean it was sputtering and jerking and everything. Not so with the duc. But maybe the engine configuration allows them to run well on only 1 cylinder. How do I check that? Just pull out the individual plugs and make sure they're firing? If i'm going there I should prob check the compression in the cylinders too. Is that number in the service manual? If not do you know what the compression should be?
Thanks!
Quote from: Roaduser on August 08, 2012, 10:09:00 PM
did u change the fuel filter before or after the issue?
curious about this also....if it was before, perhaps the line is slightly kinked and not allowing proper flow at full tilt boogie?
Get/borrow an infrared thermometer. If one cylinder is not firing, running the bike, and measuring the header temp close to the head will quickly reveal if one is heating up while the other is not.
Or you could use you hand - just be careful. Either way do this checking from start up when the bike was cold before.
Checking for spark is easy to do too. Couple ways to go about that - on my 900 has the wires are easy to get to I'd just pull one and try to fire it up and reverse. If it fires and runs like it has been in one config and not the other... well you've got no spark. There's various spark test tools one can buy w/o much cost - or the old pull the plug, ground it on the head and hit the starter method...
Quote from: zooom on August 09, 2012, 08:16:13 AM
curious about this also....if it was before, perhaps the line is slightly kinked and not allowing proper flow at full tilt boogie?
I'll check and see
Quote from: Roaduser on August 08, 2012, 10:09:00 PM
im sorry but his description didnt say anything about his clutch slipping... it sounds more like a lack of power than a lack of friction/traction.
im leaning towards its running on one cylinder. unless your familiar with the ducatis, it can be deceptive. many ppl will think its running on two when its not and u certainly wont be the first or the last!
did u change the fuel filter before or after the issue?
fuel filter was changed before the issue... shortly after i purchased the bike
Quote from: Slide Panda on August 09, 2012, 08:22:03 AM
Get/borrow an infrared thermometer. If one cylinder is not firing, running the bike, and measuring the header temp close to the head will quickly reveal if one is heating up while the other is not.
Or you could use you hand - just be careful. Either way do this checking from start up when the bike was cold before.
Checking for spark is easy to do too. Couple ways to go about that - on my 900 has the wires are easy to get to I'd just pull one and try to fire it up and reverse. If it fires and runs like it has been in one config and not the other... well you've got no spark. There's various spark test tools one can buy w/o much cost - or the old pull the plug, ground it on the head and hit the starter method...
aaahhh, so.... both cylinders ARE firing. I have had my hands very close to each of the headers checking for exhaust leaks after removing/replacing my exhaust. and those pipes were VERY hot within seconds. :)
what are people's opinions on replacement clutch kits? I can get a barnett kit for about $180. ducati clutch kit is about $380. any experience with barnett clutch plates?
Quote from: George S on August 09, 2012, 04:51:31 PM
what are people's opinions on replacement clutch kits? I can get a barnett kit for about $180. ducati clutch kit is about $380. any experience with barnett clutch plates?
got barnet clutch plates work's great [thumbsup]
do you have a open clutch or a clutch cover ?
Not a fan of Barnett for dry clutched Ducs.
Quote from: ducpainter on August 09, 2012, 04:58:12 PM
Not a fan of Barnett for dry clutched Ducs.
Is there another option besides the OEM and the barnet ?
Ducatigirl, my clutch is completely open. Gives the bike more of that... how do you say???... Mad Max look! LMFAO
Ducpainter.... why don't you like Barnett?
Quote from: George S on August 09, 2012, 05:10:42 PM
Ducatigirl, my clutch is completely open. Gives the bike more of that... how do you say???... Mad Max look! LMFAO
Ducpainter.... why don't you like Barnett?
They don't seem to hold up in open cover situations, and generally don't last anywhere near as long as OEM.
There isn't any real savings.
They work great in wet clutches.
Quote from: Roaduser on August 08, 2012, 10:09:00 PM
im sorry but his description didnt say anything about his clutch slipping... it sounds more like a lack of power than a lack of friction/traction.
friction\ traction is exactly the issue here ... if the clutch plate's are all worn down it will feel like the bike as absolutely no power.... it feels like your in neutral and you turn the throttle and the rpm go up but the bike doesn't take any speed .... :)
surely looks like it though
Doe's the symptom's appeared gradually over a month or two ??
If your engine is increasing in RPM without the appropriate increase in road speed the clutch is slipping. This is most likely going to happen when you are going up hill in a high gear and add a lot of throttle.
Quote from: ducatigirl100 on August 09, 2012, 05:28:59 PM
friction\ traction is exactly the issue here ... if the clutch plate's are all worn down it will feel like the bike as absolutely no power.... it feels like your in neutral and you turn the throttle and the rpm go up but the bike doesn't take any speed .... :)
surely looks like it though
Doe's the symptom's appeared gradually over a month or two ??
if this was the case it wouldnt feel like a lack of power, a very different feeling to a slipping clutch. as howie illuded to the circumstances that this will appear under are different to that of a lack of power and i believe the symptoms would present very differently too. from my understanding the bike isnt reving out and going no where, its just not going any faster which points to a lack of power.
easily tested tho, if the op goes to a hill, puts his bike a gear higher than he really should and gives it a wrist full is it reving out and not accelerating or just bogging down?
Quote from: Roaduser on August 09, 2012, 08:40:19 PM
if this was the case it wouldnt feel like a lack of power, a very different feeling to a slipping clutch. as howie illuded to the circumstances that this will appear under are different to that of a lack of power and i believe the symptoms would present very differently too. from my understanding the bike isnt reving out and going no where, its just not going any faster which points to a lack of power.
easily tested tho, if the op goes to a hill, puts his bike a gear higher than he really should and gives it a wrist full is it reving out and not accelerating or just bogging down?
Yeah, a lot of possibilities. when the bike was maxed out though at it's top speed, the engine was only running b/t 5,000 and 6,000 rpm. still doesn't rule out the possibility of a worn out clutch. pretty easy to diagnose i suppose. I'll just mic the plates... hopefully the tolerances are in the service manual. I haven't looked yet. Does anyone know the minimum recommended thickness?
Quote from: George S on August 10, 2012, 08:48:30 AM
Yeah, a lot of possibilities. when the bike was maxed out though at it's top speed, the engine was only running b/t 5,000 and 6,000 rpm. still doesn't rule out the possibility of a worn out clutch. pretty easy to diagnose i suppose. I'll just mic the plates... hopefully the tolerances are in the service manual. I haven't looked yet. Does anyone know the minimum recommended thickness?
If the clutch was the limiting factor the bike would hit the rev limiter.
The clutch may be worn, but it isn't the cause of your problem.
do you have stock sprokets ? if the gearing has ben changed it might be that . my SS 750 F.I. is 1 down in frt and 1 down in the rear .
Quote from: H-2 CHARLIE on August 10, 2012, 11:32:03 AM
do you have stock sprokets ? if the gearing has ben changed it might be that . my SS 750 F.I. is 1 down in frt and 1 down in the rear .
id think a modern 4 valve ducati should easily push past 100 mph even with a 2 or 3 tooth gear change. i dont think this is a mechanical problem.
the op said he changed the fuel filter before this problem began. my money is on an instalation error with the pump/filter/hoses in or attached to the tank. check external to the tank first of coarse and then drain and go over what was worked on when you did the filter change. in particular, check for kinks or twists in the fuel lines and breather lines attached to the tank. check the charcoal cannister isnt full of fuel or something like that too.
good luck with it, hope its a simple fix!
..... lot of opinions here....
HEY have you checked your blinkers?
maybe you have a blinker fuse that has blown which causes the bike to not go faster than 100mph.
If that is the case, that is definitely the problem.
I had this same problem a few years back on a completely different bike.
Quote from: jaxduc on August 11, 2012, 08:09:27 AM
..... lot of opinions here....
HEY have you checked your blinkers?
maybe you have a blinker fuse that has blown which causes the bike to not go faster than 100mph.
If that is the case, that is definitely the problem.
I had this same problem a few years back on a completely different bike.
Are you sure it wasn't one of the cards in the spokes gone missing?
Quote from: Peggy on August 11, 2012, 11:06:41 AM
Are you sure it wasn't one of the cards in the spokes gone missing?
Capriex sticker missing?
My 2004 s4r will hit 100 with little effort and will bury the speedo, you said that the engine was making funny noises how do your belts look? and have you pulled your spark plugs what do they look like, im new to ducs but the plugs should tell you if your not hitting on both and how its running [Dolph]
Quote from: Peggy on August 11, 2012, 11:06:41 AM
Are you sure it wasn't one of the cards in the spokes gone missing?
I checked. Both cards are there... front and back :)
Quote from: Fitzy on August 12, 2012, 03:09:43 AM
My 2004 s4r will hit 100 with little effort and will bury the speedo, you said that the engine was making funny noises how do your belts look? and have you pulled your spark plugs what do they look like, im new to ducs but the plugs should tell you if your not hitting on both and how its running [Dolph]
I haven't visualized the belts, but they were changed when the valves were done. I haven't recently checked the plugs either. They were changed not very long ago, though.
I think your flux capacitor isn't putting out the necessary 1.21 gigawatts for to hit the hyperdrive and go warp factor 5 and go to ludricrous speed !
;)
Hey George
You find the problem? Got to get those missing ponies back.
Sounds like fuel issues are the cause as others have suggested, (clagged fuel filter, cruddy injectors, ruptured internal hose or a failing fuel pump).
If the bike ran on sarcasm, he'd be cruising at about Mach 4 after this thread!
;D
To the OP, go back over your work becuase you've obviously made an error. Go back to square one and take things step by step. Take your time & check everything you've touched. It's more than likely something very simple.
cheers
Mike
Quote from: koko64 on August 24, 2012, 12:48:20 PM
Hey George
You find the problem? Got to get those missing ponies back.
Sounds like fuel issues are the cause as others have suggested, (clagged fuel filter, cruddy injectors, ruptured internal hose or a failing fuel pump).
Took it to the dealership, they did their thing and couldn't find any problems. The tech took it for a spin and said he got it up to 110 with plenty of pull left. So who knows, maybe it was just some bad gas... maybe I was wearing a parachute and didn't realize it! LOL
Anyway, with that put to rest, I'm gonna take on a few smaller projects: steering bearings and radiator flush.
I'll keep everyone updated. Thanks for all the input, everyone!
You must have been draggin your knee on a corner and a piece of debris, thrown up form the front tire being pushed so hard and so fast, jammed into the twist grip on the throttle. This caused it to feel as though you were giving full throttle when in fact you were only at about 50%. That's your story and you are sticking to it.
Quote from: needtorque on September 10, 2012, 03:56:44 AM
You must have been draggin your knee on a corner and a piece of debris, thrown up form the front tire being pushed so hard and so fast, jammed into the twist grip on the throttle. This caused it to feel as though you were giving full throttle when in fact you were only at about 50%. That's your story and you are sticking to it.
I like it! ;D
Hey, had the throttle cable dislodge from the cam on my 696 it felt like throttle was wide open but it was only opening about 30 to 50 %
Quote from: craig697 on September 10, 2012, 07:31:02 AM
Hey, had the throttle cable dislodge from the cam on my 696 it felt like throttle was wide open but it was only opening about 30 to 50 %
Interesting. I'll look into that when I have the throttle bodies adjusted. In the meantime, my first project is replacing my steering bearings. I've been struggling with finding a suitable support for hoisting the front end of my bike off the ground. Finally decided on laying two support beams across two of the rafters in my garage and using those beams. Pictures to follow if my garage comes crashing down!
I posted this earlier, but with no responses... do you have any experience with steering bearings? E.g. Ducati vs. aftermarket?
I used some Allballs bearings on the VTX about 3 weeks ago. So far so good.
http://www.allballsracing.com/22-1039.html (http://www.allballsracing.com/22-1039.html)