Changing the oil and when I went to remove the oil filter it wouldn't budge. Took a little more work and finally got the filter unscrewed, however, in the process the bolt and the bypass spring (#14) came with it. Didn't notice the spring.....FAST FORWARD. Screwed the bolt back in, filled the bike with oil and took her for a spin. When cleaning, came back and noticed the bypass spring.
(http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49906&d=1210098976)
What purpose does it serve and did I do any short/long term hard by riding her for about 30 minutes?
From the workshop manual (is this what you're talking about?)
Note
Should the oil cooler be blocked
or frozen, oil pressure will increase
thus opening the reed (Q) on the
cartridge filter (R). Should this be the
case, oil will reach the cartridge filter
(R) without flowing through the
cooler.
It's to divert the oil directly through the filter and bypass the cooler when the oil is cold and thick.
You did no harm.
When you re-install make sure the tab blocks off the round hole. The tab will be in between the raised bosses.
Just curious, could one operate permanently without the spring or is the spring necessary to properly filter the oil? Electronics are my thing, not engines.....
Quote from: MonstaS2R on September 05, 2012, 01:46:06 PM
Just curious, could one operate permanently without the spring or is the spring necessary to properly filter the oil? Electronics are my thing, not engines.....
It won't affect filtration.
Depending on the cold pressure your engine develops I suppose it's possible to damage the cooler. It will also slow the warmup of the engine.
Quote from: ducpainter on September 05, 2012, 02:11:59 PM
It won't affect filtration.
Depending on the cold pressure your engine develops I suppose it's possible to damage the cooler. It will also slow the warmup of the engine.
Since it's summer here, it doesn't get colder than 75 in DC. Just learning......Why would it damage the cooler because oil wasn't being passed through? If that's the case, would the engine run hotter than normal?
Quote from: ducpainter on September 05, 2012, 01:10:23 PM
It's to divert the oil directly through the filter and bypass the cooler when the oil is cold and thick.
When I added an oil cooler to my 620, I was told that the spring is necessary to make sure oil is routed to the cooler. I was told that without the spring, the oil would not be routed through the lines to the cooler and the cooler would then be about as useful as a paperweight. Ducpainter's post pretty much inverts that idea. Interesting stuff for anyone wanting to add a cooler to a smaller Duc.
I'm still pretty sure the spring is needed to ensure the cooler is allowed to do its job.
Quote from: MonstaS2R on September 05, 2012, 02:31:45 PM
Since it's summer here, it doesn't get colder than 75 in DC. Just learning......Why would it damage the cooler because oil wasn't being passed through? If that's the case, would the engine run hotter than normal?
It might damage the cooler because the oil pressure, when cold, was too high for the construction of the cooler and could cause it to leak.
I'm not saying it would, but there has to be a reason the engineers added it.
The spring is supposed to stop flow to the cooler so the oil can warm up quicker and flow more freely to the vital engine parts.
Quote from: rule62 on September 05, 2012, 02:34:26 PM
When I added an oil cooler to my 620, I was told that the spring is necessary to make sure oil is routed to the cooler. I was told that without the spring, the oil would not be routed through the lines to the cooler and the cooler would then be about as useful as a paperweight. Ducpainter's post pretty much inverts that idea. Interesting stuff for anyone wanting to add a cooler to a smaller Duc.
I'm still pretty sure the spring is needed to ensure the cooler is allowed to do its job.
I've been wrong before. ;)
...but why would it be called a bypass spring?
If the OP has no spring it would be nice to know if his cooler gets warm when he runs the engine.
That would solve the mystery.
Quote from: ducpainter on September 05, 2012, 02:43:21 PM
If the OP has no spring it would be nice to know if his cooler gets warm when he runs the engine.
That would solve the mystery.
I hope my last post wasn't insinuating. I didn't intend it that way at all.
I'd also like to know if the cooler gets oil without the spring as you've posted above.
Quote from: rule62 on September 05, 2012, 02:49:43 PM
I hope my last post wasn't insinuating. I didn't intend it that way at all.
I'd also like to know if the cooler gets oil without the spring as you've posted above.
Not at all. [thumbsup]
I'm posting my understanding of the way it works.
If I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it.
If the OP can start his bike and let us know it will be great.
Let me try to add some uneducated info... It's there to ensure oil flow even if the cooler is blocked by 'frozen' oil. It's a valve that opens when/if the pressure is as high as it gets with a blocked cooler.
I don't know if it stays open or shuts down without the spring.
Isn't that the part that needs to be modified when you install a cooler on a non-cooler bike?
Quote from: stopintime on September 05, 2012, 03:12:26 PM
Let me try to add some uneducated info... It's there to ensure oil flow even if the cooler is blocked by 'frozen' oil. It's a valve that opens when/if the pressure is as high as it gets with a blocked cooler.
I don't know if it stays open or shuts down without the spring.
Isn't that the part that needs to be modified when you install a cooler on a non-cooler bike?
I believe it needs to be added.
Quote from: ducpainter on September 05, 2012, 03:13:45 PM
I believe it needs to be added.
I haven't put hte spring back in yet, what would you like to be tested? Whether the oil cooler gets warm without the spring inserted?
Quote from: MonstaS2R on September 05, 2012, 03:14:44 PM
I haven't put hte spring back in yet, what would you like to be tested? Whether the oil cooler gets warm without the spring inserted?
Yes
Quote from: MonstaS2R on September 05, 2012, 03:14:44 PM
I haven't put hte spring back in yet, what would you like to be tested? Whether the oil cooler gets warm without the spring inserted?
Please. ;D
Looking at it more closely, I believe the diverter is there initially to route oil through the cooler lines to the cooler. Without the spring, oil would simply run through the filter and then back through the engine.
The design of the spring seems to have a secondary function. If the oil pressure gets too high (symptom of a blocked cooler) the spring flexes and allows oil to run directly through the filter (as if the diverter wasn't there).
let it run for about 10 minutes. Engine got to 136 degrees the oil cooler went from a cool touch to much warmer when the bike started running?
thoughts?
Quote from: MonstaS2R on September 05, 2012, 04:05:35 PM
let it run for about 10 minutes. Engine got to 136 degrees the oil cooler went from a cool touch to much warmer when the bike started running?
thoughts?
136 F or C?
Quote from: MonstaS2R on September 05, 2012, 04:27:26 PM
F
If the cooler got warmer I'd say oil was flowing.
Let us know what you feel when you ride the bike and it comes up to full operating temp.
Quote from: ducpainter on September 05, 2012, 04:29:13 PM
If the cooler got warmer I'd say oil was flowing.
Let us know what you feel when you ride the bike and it comes up to full operating temp.
My daily commute is 40 minutes. With fresh oil, is there anything I should be looking for from the engine, sounds, etc. Still trying to understand the purpose of this spring now....
Quote from: MonstaS2R on September 05, 2012, 04:35:11 PM
My daily commute is 40 minutes. With fresh oil, is there anything I should be looking for from the engine, sounds, etc. Still trying to understand the purpose of this spring now....
The cooler should be roughly the same temp as the engine after 40 mins.
I doubt you'll notice anything odd.
I have a good friend that has been a Duc tech for roughly 15 years.
I'll ask him whazzup.
Quote from: ducpainter on September 05, 2012, 04:38:39 PM
The cooler should be roughly the same temp as the engine after 40 mins.
I doubt you'll notice anything odd.
I have a good friend that has been a Duc tech for roughly 15 years.
I'll ask him whazzup.
Thanks Ducpainter.
Very interested to hear what your friend has to say as the Ducati tech at Coleman Powersports here in VA told me it was essential to the operation of the bike and without it I risked doing serious damage to the motor. I think part of it was hype, so just curious....
Quote from: rule62 on September 05, 2012, 03:20:34 PM
Looking at it more closely, I believe the diverter is there initially to route oil through the cooler lines to the cooler. Without the spring, oil would simply run through the filter and then back through the engine.
The design of the spring seems to have a secondary function. If the oil pressure gets too high (symptom of a blocked cooler) the spring flexes and allows oil to run directly through the filter (as if the diverter wasn't there).
That almost makes sense.
Quote from: ducpainter on September 05, 2012, 06:02:47 PM
That almost makes sense.
Does the spring control the volume of oil that goes from to the engine? By bypassing the oil cooler is the engine getting too much oil, potentially causing a leak or flood?
Quote from: MonstaS2R on September 05, 2012, 06:18:11 PM
Does the spring control the volume of oil that goes from to the engine? By bypassing the oil cooler is the engine getting too much oil, potentially causing a leak or flood?
Relax...
there is no danger of a leak or flood.
The spring controls the flow of oil through the cooler.
The only question seems to be whether it flows to the cooler without the spring.
My guess is the spring does control the volume of oil to the cooler verses the heads, and is needed to make sure the heads get enough oil. I think you would have flow to the cooler, just not enough. The ability to bypass the cooler with increased flow to the heads if the cooler clogs probably assures sufficient flow back to the sump since a clogged cooler could reduce flow back to the sump.
Quote from: ducpainter on September 06, 2012, 03:39:17 AM
Relax...
there is no danger of a leak or flood.
The spring controls the flow of oil through the cooler.
The only question seems to be whether it flows to the cooler without the spring.
40 minute ride this morning. Duc sounded fine and grumbled all the way to the office ;D
Quote from: MonstaS2R on September 06, 2012, 05:52:46 AM
40 minute ride this morning. Duc sounded fine and grumbled all the way to the office ;D
was the cooler hot?
Quote from: ducpainter on September 06, 2012, 06:02:46 AM
was the cooler hot?
It did get hot but I suspect it wasn't as hot as the engine temp which was reading 210 F. I was able to touch the cooler which was very warm with my bare hand for a couple of seconds before it got too hot
You have it right in that the diverter is there to send the oil through the cooler. The pump sends it out the top casting boss and into the cooler. This is also connected to the hole covered by the diverter, the oil will take the easiest path so without something to cover the hole the oil just goes through the filter.
I doubt it would harm anything running with out the valve as it should be the same for those bikes with no coolers, as long as the cooler gets some oil it will send what gets in there back to the cases. The valve is used as a blow off valve in case of a blockage in the cooler as already stated. No temperature related functions, though there used to be a aftermarket setup that bypassed the cooler at low temps.
The heads get fed oil through the center of the filter not the sides, the oil is delivered to the filter either through the small hole (non-cooler bikes) or if there is a cooler (and diverter) then the oil goes first through the cooler then return back through the lower line dumping it into the filter.
There you have it...
Thanks.
Thanks everyone. The knowledge of this board never ceases to amaze me [clap]
A picture to go along with the words.
Port in the oil filter well, at the bottom of the pic, with red wire coming out.
That's the one the bypass spring covers.
Port at the top with the 2 red wires coming out, that's where the oil pump output connects.
Port at the right, red wire, is the output to the cooler.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8461/7952775204_06c529b639_c.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/79721557@N02/7952775204/)
Quote from: Speeddog on September 07, 2012, 06:43:18 PM
A picture to go along with the words.
Port in the oil filter well, at the bottom of the pic, with red wire coming out.
That's the one the bypass spring covers.
Port at the top with the 2 red wires coming out, that's where the oil pump output connects.
Port at the right, red wire, is the output to the cooler.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8461/7952775204_06c529b639_c.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/79721557@N02/7952775204/)
coolio ;D
[clap]