I looking for ANY info on the Self Diagnostic/DDA Port on a few of the new bikes. I have a degree in computer engineering I'm interested in developing some sort of real-time auxiliary display for any bikes equipped with the port. My first thought was something like this, http://www.veypor.com/hud.html (http://www.veypor.com/hud.html). It requires a unit be installed on the bike that take all the measurements and sends the data to the dongle on the helmet. With a DDA port, we could just tap into the data straight from the sensors and do what we want with it. I know it's a long shot, but any info would be great.
Good luck and keep us posted. I have nothing helpful on this.
I also have nothing usefull to add, but would like to say I'm very intreaged by the idea.
I've done a little homework and I'm 99% sure they are using a CAN (Control Area Network) to communicate much of the data the digital dash displays, as well as the info the DDA logs. I have actually done a project like this before (in school) but I never really got it working, maybe I can make up for it now.
Does anyone else have any idea's for what to do with the this data (speed, rpm, gear?)?
This sounds like a great project. Sorry I'm not much of a help here but the DDA was designed by Prosa. There may be more information there:
http://www.prosa.com/DDAWebSupport/index.do
It might be easiest for you to buy the technoresearch software for your bike in a laptop program and then reverse engineer it.
What are you hoping to access?
different ECU use the same port newer bikes (749,999,hyper) are can line but the older are not(p7,p8,16m,15).
some of the older bikes the aftermarket played around with the enviromental trims to richen the whole map. some (FIM) developed their own maps.
good luck and keep us posted.
Since some versions of the diagnostic tool connect to the serial port of a computer, you could hook up a RS232 protocol analyzer, use the tool, and hack away on the message traffic. One issue to consider is the extra overhead the ECU needs to send and receive serial messages. Is there enough bandwidth to support this and also everything else it is doing at 9,000 RPM? I guess testing would let you know.
I already own a programmable micro controller that is CAN 2.0B ready, this should be able to capture all the data I need, it's just a matter of figuring out what all the data packets actually stand for. Because all CAN traffic is broadcast (meaning every node on the network gets every packet) the ECU will not even know that I'm listening in to the "conversation".
I'm quite sure I've narrowed down the scope of my search to this SAE standard:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J1939 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J1939)
It's used in almost all new automotive systems, and already has standard functions for communicating speed, rpm, ect. The only problem is that access to the actual J1939 documentation is $600/year minimum, and I don't really have any commercial interest in this project. I've done other such projects (for model trains) that the manufacturer provided a full writeup of communications standards on their public website. No such luck here [bang]
Right - and Bosch owns this proprietary protocol... They charge a licensing fee to use it... kinda crazy but that is what it says on their website.
http://www.semiconductors.bosch.de/pdf/can2spec.pdf
keep in mind that the diagnostics port is not CAN
The DDA port is CAN. I've been in contact with the guys who make it, they told me it is based on CAN, but could not go into specifics. So I dug around and found this j1939 protocol, which is a CAN protocol for automotive applications. That's the reason I'm interested, because that DDA port under my seat is a gate way to all the info that the cluster is getting. The DDA only provides an 'at a later date' type of interface, but I would like to get into real time usage.
I guess I got confused between the DDA and the DDS diagnostics port... Sorry about that. I've never even seen a DDA.
I guess I didn't see a separate diagnostic port on my schematic, but I would imagine it's all the same protocol.
I think it would take a fair amount of processing to convert CAN into something a standard UART could receive. My laptop running the Technoresearch software and the cable can talk to the Ducati ECU's diagnostic port through the standard serial port.
Alrighty...After more reading I'm a thinking this is not going to be easy (duh). Found this post on a CAN forum. Basically it says that we're not dealing with a standard protocol after all, just a specific use of the CAN messages. Best I can do now is try to capture the messages and try to figure out what they mean. Oh well, it was just something I was interested in tinkering with.
http://www.j1939forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=18&sid=748aa4f4abb6e6dc5501b69955db204a (http://www.j1939forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=18&sid=748aa4f4abb6e6dc5501b69955db204a)
I wish you the best of luck. It is a cool project for sure and potentially profitable [beer]
Quote from: Bill in OKC on July 09, 2008, 01:44:02 PM
I wish you the best of luck. It is a cool project for sure and potentially profitable [beer]
Thanks, Maybe I do need to think about it that way. Right now I'm just looking at it from a hobby view point, but it seems that I would have to spark up a partnership with ducati/synerject in order to get their "secret codes". I'll send out some emails...see what people have to say.
Quote from: ducvet on June 30, 2008, 05:36:22 PM
It might be easiest for you to buy the technoresearch software for your bike in a laptop program and then reverse engineer it.
What are you hoping to access?
different ECU use the same port newer bikes (749,999,hyper) are can line but the older are not(p7,p8,16m,15).
some of the older bikes the aftermarket played around with the enviromental trims to richen the whole map. some (FIM) developed their own maps.
good luck and keep us posted.
This is it...you were on it from the start...Thanks!
But I know the 696 has a new ecu...so the software might not be compatible...wonder what the dealer mechanics use?
http://www.technoresearch.com/Products/VDSTS-Motorbike/VDSTS_Motorbike_Pricing.htm (http://www.technoresearch.com/Products/VDSTS-Motorbike/VDSTS_Motorbike_Pricing.htm) is not a bad deal if you plan on using it for just one bike...I'll get in touch with them about if/when 696 might be compatible.
I dont want to jack the thread but what would be really cool is if you can ADD another feature to the bike and route that data through the DDA. Specifically, I would love to see accelerometers strapped to the bike giving lean angles and braking/acceleration data.
Quote from: EEL on July 18, 2008, 11:58:05 AM
I dont want to jack the thread but what would be really cool is if you can ADD another feature to the bike and route that data through the DDA. Specifically, I would love to see accelerometers strapped to the bike giving lean angles and braking/acceleration data.
I'm sure something like that already exists out there...it wouldn't have anything to do with the DDA though, You would use your own sensors and Microcontroller to record the data. I'll put that on my list of projects to come maybe, would be cool. Could probably measure somethings like Max Lean Angle, Max G force, things like that...I'll look into it.
Hi, I've the same idea and google bring me here. Any progress?