Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: ikillterrorists on November 16, 2012, 02:59:48 PM

Title: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: ikillterrorists on November 16, 2012, 02:59:48 PM
I have a M695, this is the first bike I have ever had. I know it has a wet clutch, but is it still possible to ride it too much? I ask because I smelled burning clutch the other day, and couldn't figure out if it was me or one of the hundreds of cars that were surrounding me in NYC traffic. And I smelled it again today while I was crawling at 5 mph through traffic jams.
Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: Ddan on November 16, 2012, 03:08:03 PM
Yes you can ride the clutch too much, and if you're crawling through traffic at 5mph by slipping the clutch, it's probably too much
Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: stopintime on November 16, 2012, 03:25:23 PM
The first APTC wet clutch on my S2R looked like this when it started to slip after ~16,000 miles.
Friction plates aren't that bad, but the blue steel plates :-\

I feather my clutch a lot and 16K was what I got out of my second clutch too.

My third clutch lasted ~25,000 with the same operation modus even though it has been tuned with +22bhp/+20Nm. The difference is the semisynthetic 15-50 oil.

(http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l394/stopintime/clutch004.jpg)
Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: ikillterrorists on November 16, 2012, 03:39:53 PM
What can I do?
Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: stopintime on November 16, 2012, 03:55:35 PM
Make sure you have good and enough oil.

Maybe try to completely engage or disengage rather than slipping somewhere in between. It's probably not possible all the time, but worth a try...

Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: ducpainter on November 17, 2012, 03:04:06 AM
You can also change your gearing to make low speed operation a little smoother.

Are your sprockets stock?
Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: ikillterrorists on November 17, 2012, 04:27:39 AM
Yeah they're stock. How do you do that?
Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: ducpainter on November 17, 2012, 04:35:50 AM
You could try a 14T front sprocket. That will help. You can buy one from one of the sponsors. It does not require a different chain.

You can buy a larger rear sprocket. Typically that requires a longer chain.

If you don't care about highway riding/top speed you can do both. It will help with chugging around town.

To find out how much top end you lose with different combinations check out www.gearingcommander.com
Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: ikillterrorists on November 20, 2012, 04:33:43 AM
Is it easy to change to the 14T sprocket?
I do ride on the highway too, but never really above 70 mph. But the majority of my riding is stop and go. Does this sound like the right thing for me to do?
Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: ducpainter on November 20, 2012, 04:58:43 AM
Many people go to a 14T front. That won't impact your highway riding much.

It's very easy.
Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: motoxmann on November 20, 2012, 05:58:40 AM
I'm not 100% certain here, but with a wet clutch I would imagine it near impossible to smell it burning.
burning clutch is almost the same smell as burning brakes. when I smell that while riding it's actually a car somewhere nearby with a burnt clutch or a sticky brake caliper or driving with the e-brake partially on. often times I can actually spot it from the smoke coming out of the wheel well. and in nyc with so much stop and go, I'd imagine there'd be plenty of cars around that are burning their clutch.

but yeah, wet clutch shouldnt be able to be smelled as far as I can guess, because it's drenched in oil. and the only vent out of the crankcase (where the clutch is) goes to the airbox where the engine sucks in the vapors, making it even harder to smell because it rarely will make it to atmosphere.

someone correct me if I'm wrong

I agree though, if you rarely ride highway, and very often ride stop and go, 14t front sprocket will help greatly. it'll also give you more torque :)
Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: ikillterrorists on November 20, 2012, 09:50:27 AM
Where do I buy the sprocket? And where can I find out how to do this on my own?
Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: ikillterrorists on November 20, 2012, 10:41:48 AM
http://ca-cycleworks.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?front_sprocket_teeth=156&q=sprocket&x=0&y=0 (http://ca-cycleworks.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?front_sprocket_teeth=156&q=sprocket&x=0&y=0)

What's the difference between JT and SuperLite? Are there other brands?
And what's the difference between Front sprocket and front countershaft sprocket?
Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: stopintime on November 20, 2012, 11:05:20 AM
They will both work fine.

No difference, two names for the same product.
Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: Howie on November 20, 2012, 11:14:46 AM
A front sprocket is a front counter shaft sprocket except without the middle name.  Lots of different brands.  JT is good for the money, Superlight a (very little bit) lighter.  You can't go wrong with either.  The folks at CA Cycleworks will help you make your choice.  How many miles on the chain?  

Changing the sprocket is easy.  Unbolt slave cylinder.  Leave hydraulics attached.  Move aside and support.  Remove the the small screws and retainer plate or big nut depending on design.  If it is a big nut it will be very tight.  An impact wrench will be helpful.  You also will have to bend down the tab on the washer.  Loosen chain.  Install new sprocket.  Adjust chain.  Make sure you tighten the axle adjusters after you tighten the axle.  Did I forget anything?

Torque specs are here:
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=373.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=373.0)

This video by Chris Kelley, owner of CA Cycleworks will help you with proper chain adjustment:
http://www.ducatitech.com/info/wheelchange.html (http://www.ducatitech.com/info/wheelchange.html)

Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: Ddan on November 20, 2012, 12:45:45 PM
Quote from: howie on November 20, 2012, 11:14:46 AM
A front sprocket is a front counter shaft sprocket except without the middle name.  Lots of different brands.  JT is good for the money, Superlight a (very little bit) lighter.  You can't go wrong with either.  The folks at CA Cycleworks will help you make your choice.  How many miles on the chain?  

Changing the sprocket is easy.  Unbolt slave cylinder.  Leave hydraulics attached.  Move aside and support.  Don't pull the lever  Remove the the small screws and retainer plate or big nut depending on design.  If it is a big nut it will be very tight.  An impact wrench will be helpful.  You also will have to bend down the tab on the washer.  Loosen chain.  Install new sprocket.  Adjust chain.  Make sure you tighten the axle adjusters after you tighten the axle.  Did I forget anything?

Torque specs are here:
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=373.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=373.0)

This video by Chris Kelley, owner of CA Cycleworks will help you with proper chain adjustment:
http://www.ducatitech.com/info/wheelchange.html (http://www.ducatitech.com/info/wheelchange.html)



Just one change    ;D
Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: ikillterrorists on November 20, 2012, 04:50:19 PM
Thanks for all the info!

Supperduc says that after installing the 14T sprocket, he noticed a lot of wearing on the chain guide. Does everybody else has this experience? Is this a problem?
Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: ducpainter on November 20, 2012, 04:59:11 PM
Quote from: ikillterrorists on November 20, 2012, 04:50:19 PM
Thanks for all the info!

Supperduc says that after installing the 14T sprocket, he noticed a lot of wearing on the chain guide. Does everybody else has this experience? Is this a problem?
It's a concern. If you watch it and don't let the chain rub through it's a non issue.

I like going to a larger rear sprocket instead of the smaller front just because of that.

The larger rear is costlier though because you will likely need a longer chain.
Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: Stormtrooper on November 20, 2012, 06:29:15 PM
I've only been on a 14T for a few days, but immedietely noticed the reduced need to slip and feather the clutch.  I feel this can only prolong the clutchs longevity.  I say try the 14t, it's cheap, easy, and nearly universally praised on these bikes
Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: Howie on November 20, 2012, 09:58:32 PM
Quote from: ikillterrorists on November 20, 2012, 04:50:19 PM
Thanks for all the info!

Supperduc says that after installing the 14T sprocket, he noticed a lot of wearing on the chain guide. Does everybody else has this experience? Is this a problem?

I think you will be fine as long as you don't raise the rear and keep the chain adjusted.  I also agree with DP about going up in the rear as well.  2 teeth up in the back will be a little less reduction than one in the front though.

QuoteDon't pull the lever

Thanks, Dan.
Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: ikillterrorists on December 15, 2012, 01:34:44 PM
Well I did it...swapped out the sprockets and it feels great! However now it feels and sounds different when I'm cruising with the throttle closed and clutch in. Anybody get this? The best I can describe it is that it feels like a "rubbing". I Also posted about it here:

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=61150.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=61150.0)
Title: Re: Burning/Riding the clutch too much?
Post by: Ddan on December 15, 2012, 02:26:22 PM
Check your work, it's possible you've got the wrong front sprocket, or have it on incorrectly if there is an asymmetrical offset.