Hey all, just under 6000 miles on my still original tires. I just now noticed today, that on my rear tire metal has become exposed. Also on my front tire there is some wear. This is my first motorcycle and first set of tires, do they need to be replaced? Thanks
(http://imageshack.us/a/img542/3207/photo1iw.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img846/5354/photo2ta.jpg)
[laugh]
nice
While you're on your knees, the rear tire show signs of too little rebound - maybe add a couple of clicks and have the preload checked for your weight as well [thumbsup] Front tire pressure been off for a while?
The weather has been fluctuating quite a bit recently, so I'm sure that might effect the pressure? Anyways, does it look like it's time to get a new set of tires? Is the preload something the dealership might be able to assist with?
Wait. you're serious about the queation?
Uh yes u need tires. now
don't ride on those
I'm pretty sure the tires are supposed to look like that. [roll]
Quote from: jaxduc on November 17, 2012, 02:11:58 PM
I'm pretty sure the tires are supposed to look like that. [roll]
he's lying. [thumbsup] get a new set of shoes for the ol' gal. right quick too!
also, i may be mistaken, but i'm pretty sure the preload on the tires is set by the manufacturer... not something you or the dealer can change [beer]
Those are called turkey strips
Quote from: mrpetebojangles on November 17, 2012, 12:27:40 AM
Hey all, just under 6000 miles on my still original tires. I just now noticed today, that on my rear tire metal has become exposed. Also on my front tire there is some wear. This is my first motorcycle and first set of tires, do they need to be replaced? Thanks
Surely you jest! ;D You ever put air in those things? 8)
No more riding until you put fresh meat on those rims! ;)
Quote from: stopintime on November 17, 2012, 04:03:54 AM
While you're on your knees, the rear tire show signs of too little rebound
???
with the wire mesh exposed like that you have better traction with the pavement. you know cause the rubber is just for looks.
Quote from: sofadriver on November 17, 2012, 06:45:37 PM
???
The raised rubber lip behind the grooves is a sign of too little rebound damping.
Still ridable for another 2,000 miles, or you crash. Whichever comes first.
Quote from: stopintime on November 17, 2012, 07:52:31 PM
The raised rubber lip behind the grooves is a sign of too little rebound damping.
thank you.
i learn something new every day. [thumbsup]
Quote from: stopintime on November 17, 2012, 07:52:31 PM
The raised rubber lip behind the grooves is a sign of too little rebound damping.
Stopintime, do you happen to know the mechanical/physical explenation to this? I've been trying to wrap my head arround this from the first time I heard of the link beween the lips and rebound damping, but never quite understood it.
Quote from: IdZer0 on November 18, 2012, 09:58:45 AM
Stopintime, do you happen to know the mechanical/physical explenation to this? I've been trying to wrap my head arround this from the first time I heard of the link beween the lips and rebound damping, but never quite understood it.
Sorry, not at all :P I'm sure it's logical...
However - I have FHE in dealing with it and it does work that way. I had lips and made them go away with two clicks, only to discover that my street riding home from a track day got me the opposite result. Consulting my suspension guru - he told me that my findings were correct, but also that trying to master suspension on that 'one click micro level' will only lead to headache by overthinking. It can also lower confidence if we 'must' have it all nailed within one click before we're willing to ride freely. There are too many variables to be able to get it just right all the time.
Cool, thanks for all the responses guys. The dealership was saying I'd probably get another 1,000 miles or so, that was about 400 miles ago, but that was before the wire mesh was exposed.
Is ~6,000 miles pretty average for normal, non-track day, riding for a set of tires.
Quote from: mrpetebojangles on November 18, 2012, 12:42:54 PM
~~~SNIP~~~
Is ~6,000 miles pretty average for normal, non-track day, riding for a set of tires.
Depends very much on *which* tires you're talking about.
Sport Touring tires can get 12k miles, like what I've gotten from a Pirelli Angel.
Or less than 4k, like what I've gotten from a Pirelli Diablo.
no tread no ride for me
no rubber would never be an option
I learned my lesson when I pushed a tire (almost) like that with my finger, after it was taken off :o
Never again!
I have never seen a front worn that much in 6000 miles, especially on the right side. I typically get 2 rears to 1 front out of the same brand/compound of tires.
A: You should definitely check tire pressure often, because that is abnormal wear on the front in my experience
B: Your corner entry speed/trail braking in right handers rivals Casey Stoner!
I usually put new air in the tires every 2-3 weeks setting bar rear 2.2-2.4 bar front 2.1-2.3. I do mainly freeway/city riding and a mountain ride up to Virginia City from Reno 1-2 times per week. Nothing too crazy it seems, but then again I don't really know.
Quote from: BastrdHK on November 18, 2012, 10:15:38 PM
B: Your corner entry speed/trail braking in right handers rivals Casey Stoner!
[thumbsup] [thumbsup]
Depending on the riding style I don't think it's far fetched to get <6Kmi out of a set of aggressive street tires, even on the front. I get maybe 6K on my fronts, but less, 4k if that, on my rears.
WRT the "too little rebound damping", what I can say for fact is, scalloped tread is a sign of rebound damping being less than optimal for traction. (mind you, not control, traction.. That "control" thing is a kinda personal issue...)
Me Thinks (i.e., I can't personally substantiate):
1) too little rebound - after bumps the tire extends quickly and hammers the ground, resulting in
- tire deformation, and resulting scalloping
- bounce due to high rebound forces, and resulting loss of traction
2) too much rebound - after bumps the tire doesn't fall right to the ground. Gravity takes its course, and
- time in air means loss of traction
- resulting hammering of the tire to the ground due to gravity results in tire deformation, and resulting scalloping.
Either way, if the bike gives you confidence, it's right. If it's stable to the point of floating (slow easy lazy drifting), turn it out a bit and see if the scallops decrease. Or, if unstable/twitchy/eager-to-lean as is, turn it in a bit and see if the scallops decrease. If they increase in either case, you're probably losing traction whilst losing confidence, turn it back...
But..., those tires desperately need replaced.... especially the front - once the front starts to square off it's done, you've got a lump at the extent of your "normal" lean angle, and if you ever need to push it past that lean angle (ex. surprise slow tourist pedestrian family crossing the highway to get to the other side of the park), you're now riding on that narrow lip of the lump, your traction is greatly reduced, and subsequent squirreliness occurs. And on the back, the steel belt's just horrible for straight line traction :D
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the bikes suspension, is factory set to the standards of a "light" rider and a "light" passenger. I'm very tall and weigh 225 lbs. Could my in changing of this created some of the odd tire wear?
Either way, won't ride until I'm on the way to get new tires.
Btw, love the responses, it's one of the reason I got a Monster when I did, an impressive community of knowledge and helpfulness, which can't be said for a lot of the Internet ha.
Out of the box the preload on a 696 is set for ~ your weight or a bit heavier, maybe 245 lbs. Have you changed the preload?
A 696 has a 160 rear tire though vs a 180 on the 796 and 1100 Evo. You might want to try 2.3 Bar front and 2.6 Bar rear if you replace the Diablos on there with Diablos Rosso II's, (I would in a heartbeat.). Only back off the PSI a hair if you feel you don't have quite enough grip. Check PSI weekly in these cold temps too!
Dunlop Q2. Buy them.
[drink]
^^^Cough, uh hum...Cough....Michelin all the way. Can't go wrong with Pilot Powers, 2CTs, Roads or Pures depending on your type of riding on the M696.
Oh! I can contribute a visual!
(http://yuu.smugmug.com/photos/i-56VZN7Q/0/XL/i-56VZN7Q-XL.jpg)
mrpetebojangles - The bike comes with some factory suspension settings and the shop probably didn't touch it unless you asked them too. Manufacturers presets are usually decent, but will have room for improvement. And the bike will come sprung for some weight they feel like. At 225+ gear you're probably over the weight range for the stock springs. Remember preload doesn't make the springs stiffer - can't do that. Spring force is a constant
Slide, thanks for the graphic. Couldn't follow that bit above at all! ???
BTW, the 696 demo I rode with 200 miles had an essentially rigid rear and I weighed 175 plus gear. The lawyers probably have them set the preload for two-up out of the factory to cover the worst possible scenario, hence my guess of ~ 245. Naturally, for the OP the dealer should set the sag to match the front. The Marzocchi forks on a 2011 aren't awful.
Quote from: Slide Panda on November 26, 2012, 05:38:43 PM
Oh! I can contribute a visual!
(http://yuu.smugmug.com/photos/i-56VZN7Q/0/XL/i-56VZN7Q-XL.jpg)
mrpetebojangles - The bike comes with some factory suspension settings and the shop probably didn't touch it unless you asked them too. Manufacturers presets are usually decent, but will have room for improvement. And the bike will come sprung for some weight they feel like. At 225+ gear you're probably over the weight range for the stock springs. Remember preload doesn't make the springs stiffer - can't do that. Spring force is a constant
SP,
Does that go for the front, also?
Thanks for the first image that doesn't require me to watch someone blather on for an hour. I don't mind reading, but I can't watch video explanations. Something wrong with me...
SlidePanda,
The visual is great!!! [thumbsup]
BTW by "More wear" you mean lipped/scalloped edge, right? - if I remember that's how it goes, but I'm frequently confused...
Also, if I remember, there was something about the scallops/lips on the tire sides relating more so to rebound, and scallops on the tire center relating more so to compression - do you recall? (or am I making this up?...). ???
Been a while since I learned this stuff last, relearning it as we speak, and the useless knowledge appears to have shoved much of the useful knowledge out of the way... :)
For highway riding and the occasional mountain twisties, what would you guys recommend? I'm not trying to start a war here, just some recommended tires. My riding bud recommended bike bandit.com, any other good online retailers with good prices?
I'm assuming I can have my local shop charge some hourly rate to get them mounted?
Thanks
Pirelli Angel. [thumbsup]
Michelin Pilot Road 2s or 3s....(the 3s tread design has not grown on me, no matter the benefits)
Motorcycle-Superstore.com great company, price matching and incredible service!
If you are looking at a price point, Conti-motions are hard to beat. I got about 5k miles per rear, and maybe 10k per front. I didn't get anything better off of Shinko Raven 009s...
All single compound tires. I have no experience with the dual compound tires, but people seem to be happy. I am a bit ham-fisted with throttle and brakes...
Pilot Road 2's.
Dual compound ST tire that has great wet/dry feeling and lasts longer than a hyper sport tire without sacrificing grip.
Unless you take it to the track, I'd try 'em out [thumbsup]
I've used the Michelin Pilot Powers and Pilot Power 2CT's, Bridgestone BT016's, BT002's, and BT003's, and I've been very pleased with all of them. the Bridgestones all seem a bit more sensitive on tire pressure than the Michelins, but they also all have great smooth break-out, in my opinion, under my use cases. I didn't much like the break-out characteristics of the Pirelli Diablo's I've run, but even they've offered quite a lot of grip for road riding, probably more than the Michelins or Bridgstones. Never ridden Dunlops, but about to, I've got a rear sitting around I'm going to toss on one of the bike before it expires, and I'm sure like all of the others it'll provide quite the positive traction.
The 2 compound and 3 compound tires do wear less in the centers (who'd've guessed), at the expense of a little traction - I don't much mind being able to get a 620 to peel out in a straight line, like wheelies that's kindof fun sometimes, but for my riding it really doesn't matter. Nor does how long my tires last (they've all lasted about the same for me BTW)... I just want good grip and good feedback with smooth break-out so I can avoid incidents, and if I've got to replace them a little more often, well that's a small price to pay for added safety ;D
It's all about what you like though, which you'll only find out by trying. If you're wallet is tight, burn quickly through some super sticky race pulloffs, you know you'll have more grip than you need, and heck, they don't last long but they're dirt cheap :). If you're not so wallet bound, pick any top tier tire and give it a try, if you find characteristics you don't like, replace it with another.. Repeat untill you find one you like, then stick with it!
My experience seems similar to speeddog's, I am about to replace my pirelli angels with 12,500 miles on them. Getting the same tires! I do a lot of backa and forth to work, and the roads are not "twisty" (unfortunately), and my back tire has developed a square wear pattern. Can't complain about them though, and they seem to be reasonably priced.
The OP is a newish rider and unless I'm mistaken, he's used to the Diablos which came on the bike. His weight is no doubt a wear factor as was possible tire pressure. Agree that the Angels would last longer and many early 696's came with them mounted, but I've no personal experience. Diablos are no longer made but were replaced with Diablo II's which are dual compound and is what I intend to fit when my Diablos wear out.
I've never ridden any Michelin bike tire which didn't ride like concrete. Warned a pal about that last year who didn't listen (never does ;)) and after suffering a few months, fitted Pirellis...
Back in the day, Pirellis were so-so and top end Metzelers were always the hot ticket. Since Pirelli bought Metzeler, it seems Metzelers have become so-so and Pirellis are the grippy ones. My Diablos were made in Germany. Hmmm... What does THAT tell you? ;D
Quote from: Speeddog on December 01, 2012, 01:53:33 PM
Pirelli Angel. [thumbsup]
+1
I've rode these on my m900 and never broke them loose. They bring you a lot of confidence and last a long time.
Quote from: Curmudgeon on December 02, 2012, 07:07:01 AM
I've never ridden any Michelin bike tire which didn't ride like concrete.
That explains why they're much less sensitive to air pressure [laugh]
I have to admit, I've gone (and continue to go) to great lengths to make sure my suspension is working just right for me. And in that respect, a tire that doesn't give at all is actually better for me, as it puts the full load on the suspension and makes it way easier for me to simulate/guesstimate and tune. But for someone who hasn't, this may be a very critical (negative) point in tire considerations.
At wdw i had a conversation with pirelli rep. he recommended the metz z08 based on my riding
Quote from: FrankenDuc on December 02, 2012, 06:36:08 AM
I've used the Michelin Pilot Powers and Pilot Power 2CT's, Bridgestone BT016's, BT002's, and BT003's, and I've been very pleased with all of them. the Bridgestones all seem a bit more sensitive on tire pressure than the Michelins, but they also all have great smooth break-out, in my opinion, under my use cases. I didn't much like the break-out characteristics of the Pirelli Diablo's I've run, but even they've offered quite a lot of grip for road riding, probably more than the Michelins or Bridgstones. Never ridden Dunlops, but about to, I've got a rear sitting around I'm going to toss on one of the bike before it expires, and I'm sure like all of the others it'll provide quite the positive traction.
The 2 compound and 3 compound tires do wear less in the centers (who'd've guessed), at the expense of a little traction - I don't much mind being able to get a 620 to peel out in a straight line, like wheelies that's kindof fun sometimes, but for my riding it really doesn't matter. Nor does how long my tires last (they've all lasted about the same for me BTW)... I just want good grip and good feedback with smooth break-out so I can avoid incidents, and if I've got to replace them a little more often, well that's a small price to pay for added safety ;D
It's all about what you like though, which you'll only find out by trying. If you're wallet is tight, burn quickly through some super sticky race pulloffs, you know you'll have more grip than you need, and heck, they don't last long but they're dirt cheap :). If you're not so wallet bound, pick any top tier tire and give it a try, if you find characteristics you don't like, replace it with another.. Repeat untill you find one you like, then stick with it!
Good advice.
Quote from: FrankenDuc on December 02, 2012, 06:36:08 AM
I've used the Michelin Pilot Powers and Pilot Power 2CT's, Bridgestone BT016's, BT002's, and BT003's, and I've been very pleased with all of them. the Bridgestones all seem a bit more sensitive on tire pressure than the Michelins, but they also all have great smooth break-out, in my opinion, under my use cases. I didn't much like the break-out characteristics of the Pirelli Diablo's I've run, but even they've offered quite a lot of grip for road riding, probably more than the Michelins or Bridgstones. Never ridden Dunlops, but about to, I've got a rear sitting around I'm going to toss on one of the bike before it expires, and I'm sure like all of the others it'll provide quite the positive traction.
The 2 compound and 3 compound tires do wear less in the centers (who'd've guessed), at the expense of a little traction - I don't much mind being able to get a 620 to peel out in a straight line, like wheelies that's kindof fun sometimes, but for my riding it really doesn't matter. Nor does how long my tires last (they've all lasted about the same for me BTW)... I just want good grip and good feedback with smooth break-out so I can avoid incidents, and if I've got to replace them a little more often, well that's a small price to pay for added safety ;D
It's all about what you like though, which you'll only find out by trying. If you're wallet is tight, burn quickly through some super sticky race pulloffs, you know you'll have more grip than you need, and heck, they don't last long but they're dirt cheap :). If you're not so wallet bound, pick any top tier tire and give it a try, if you find characteristics you don't like, replace it with another.. Repeat untill you find one you like, then stick with it!
I agree with this except for the race takeoff part unless you're using them for track days.
Some race tires need to be ridden much harder than a street tire to warm up and may not ever get warm enough to have the kind of grip a rider expects.
They also heat cycle out unlike street tires and may grip one day and be a slippery as ice the next.
Forgot to turn on notifications!
Quote from: Dirty Duc on November 28, 2012, 02:49:28 PM
Does that go for the front, also?
Yep. The dynamic is basically the same. With too much damping the suspension is packing down and you're driving that edge into the pavement harder. With too little the suspension's bouncing a bit all the time.
Quote from: FrankenDuc on November 29, 2012, 02:44:19 AM
SlidePanda,
The visual is great!!! [thumbsup]
BTW by "More wear" you mean lipped/scalloped edge, right? - if I remember that's how it goes, but I'm frequently confused...
Also, if I remember, there was something about the scallops/lips on the tire sides relating more so to rebound, and scallops on the tire center relating more so to compression - do you recall? (or am I making this up?...). ???
Been a while since I learned this stuff last, relearning it as we speak, and the useless knowledge appears to have shoved much of the useful knowledge out of the way... :)
More wear = more wear ;D. If you were to look at the tire with 'ideal' wear the height of the 'land' (sections that contact the pavement) on either side of the sipe would be even, so the tire would have as close to a perfect circle as possible. When things are out of whack, the land on one side of the sipe will be lower, more worn.
I don't recall center vs side relating to compression vs rebound. As *I* have absorbed it (and hope I'm right) it's all about rebound for that sort of wear. Having off compression will do all sorts of other crappy things for you, but it seems rebound the the arbiter of this flavor of wear.
Quote from: ducpainter on December 03, 2012, 05:36:30 AM
I agree with this except for the race takeoff part unless you're using them for track days.
Some race tires need to be ridden much harder than a street tire to warm up and may not ever get warm enough to have the kind of grip a rider expects.
They also heat cycle out unlike street tires and may grip one day and be a slippery as ice the next.
+1 Good street tires will be the best course. Even DOT race tires aren't for day-to-day rides
Quote from: Slide Panda on December 03, 2012, 07:30:25 AM
Yep. The dynamic is basically the same. With too much damping the suspension is packing down and you're driving that edge into the pavement harder. With too little the suspension's bouncing a bit all the time.
And a generic solution to a requirement for more damping could be heavier fork oil? (understanding that re-valving is a good solution for Ducs... I am talking about my other bike that wore the front pretty severely in the indicated pattern).
Heavier oil would make for more compression damping as well too, just keep that in mind. And of course not like clickers for adjustment. But if there's no clickers... Not much else easy to do.
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=60985.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=60985.0)
[/threadjack]
Quote from: ducpainter on December 03, 2012, 05:36:30 AM
I agree with this except for the race takeoff part unless you're using them for track days.
Some race tires need to be ridden much harder than a street tire to warm up and may not ever get warm enough to have the kind of grip a rider expects.
They also heat cycle out unlike street tires and may grip one day and be a slippery as ice the next.
Yeah, I probably shouldn't even allude to a lot of the crazy things I've done during times of economic despair, much less recommend any of them publicly [bang]
Better just to stick with top tier new tires ;)