the bearing behind the alternator on my wifes 696 has broken
has anybody heard of this happening on other 696's ???
this is a split the case repair that is going to cost $2000+ on a bike with less than 9000 miles
I'd contact DNA directly to see what they can do for you. If it's out of warranty they might good will it. Here's a link I've used in the past http://www.ducatiusa.com/company/contact_us/contact_form/index.do (http://www.ducatiusa.com/company/contact_us/contact_form/index.do)
To answer your question I haven't heard of it happening, but there are a lot more knowledgeable guys than me on the board.
It happened on my old 750 SS, but with far more than 2K miles.
I haven't heard of any problems on the 696.
has there been any work done on the bike inside the alt. case? lightweight flywheel?
Yours is the first 696 I know of. Service records will help. Also speak to your dealer.
bike is bone stock
had the first service done at a local shop that specializes in ducatis
we have not yet contacted the original dealer ... we don't use them they are too far away
our hope is that DNA will step up and help out as this kind of repair on a low mileage bike is a little extreme
Quote from: grumpyman on December 16, 2012, 06:28:14 PM
bike is bone stock
had the first service done at a local shop that specializes in ducatis
we have not yet contacted the original dealer ... we don't use them they are too far away
our hope is that DNA will step up and help out as this kind of repair on a low mileage bike is a little extreme
Agreed...that would be the perfect outcome.
Good luck.
well it is sitting at the original dealer now waiting for ducati of north america to grant the claim
well ace motorsports looked at it and filed a claim which ducati north america has rejected
i am going to call them as soon as they are back from vacation
i think i am not being unreasonable to expect them to at least do a goodwill deal on the parts for this repair which cost about $700
their reason for denying the claim at this point is that the work was not done by a dealer.
having dealt with dealer mechanics before i do not believe they would have figured it out either.
during the 7500 mile service the alternator does not get touched so i don't see how it could be the service providers problem i think it is an assembly issue and that would be on ducati
You are not required to have any paid work done at a dealer to keep a warranty in effect.
The fact you're out of warranty gives them carte blanche to do whatever they want.
Good luck.
Try to stay calm when you plead your case.
thanx ducpainter
every mechanic i have talked to has said that there is no reason for that bearing to fail
this bike had decent oil change intervals and was not abused
having both of my european bikes down due to engineering quirks and currently commuting on my honda xr600r speaks volumes about reliability
My S4R was down for several months last year due to an alternator bearing issue. The initial symptom was metal shrapnel on the oil drain plug following by a horrific sound coming from the motor. The first repair cost was $350 but the Tech forgot to install some thrust washer. This repair lasted about 600 miles and the bearing failed again. The second repair was free, but the thrust washer was still missing (same Tech). This repair lasted about 800 miles. The third time the service manager had their senior Tech do the repair. He determined the thrust washer was missing and replaced the alternator bearings again. I have over 2000 miles on this repair and hopefully it has solved the issue.
The third repair cost me $700 even though it was the original Techs fault for leaving out a critical component. The service manager justified this by having the Sr. Tech do a complete motor inspection. I was prepared to pay for a complete motor rebuild at $4000. I was expecting my main bearings to be done.
talked to a few more ducati mechanics today and find out that the alternator bearing failure is a known issue on these bikes
and it is due to improper assembly on the part of the manufacturer not some failure on my end
if you are hearing extra whirring noises from your belts get it checked out
Just to be clear.....
Is this a failure of the main bearing behind the flywheel?
Or is it a failure of the small bearing on the end of the crank, in the sidecover?
the bearing inside the case behind the alternator
it is not a main crank bearing but is driven by the crank and is inside the case
apparently it is easy to install it slightly off true
i am going to find out more tomorrow but to find my claim was denied over an issue that DNA know is a design flaw is infuriating
i had to work today but am going to call them directly on monday
speedog
when the alternator was removed in the hunt for the noise, the bearing directly behind it was the one that had failed
What parts costing $700 are required for that repair?
Here's a pic from my M695, which should be similar to your setup.
Presumably the red arrow shows the failed bearing location?
When you say it "broke" do you mean the race cracked?
BK
(http://i50.tinypic.com/212g9ar.jpg)
the arrowed bearing is the main bearing. i was expecting he is talking about the bearings over the crank next to the timing gear. the one that the starter driven gear sits on. but his explanation is not clear.
Quote from: grumpyman on January 04, 2013, 08:25:21 PM
the bearing inside the case behind the alternator
it is not a main crank bearing but is driven by the crank and is inside the case
apparently it is easy to install it slightly off true
i am going to find out more tomorrow but to find my claim was denied over an issue that DNA know is a design flaw is infuriating
i had to work today but am going to call them directly on monday
Quote from: BK_856er on January 05, 2013, 02:20:38 PM
Here's a pic from my M695, which should be similar to your setup.
Presumably the red arrow shows the failed bearing location?
When you say it "broke" do you mean the race cracked?
BK
(http://i50.tinypic.com/212g9ar.jpg)
He said it wasn't a main bearing. ???
Quote from: ducpainter on January 06, 2013, 06:47:41 AM
He said it wasn't a main bearing. ???
Yes, obviously I missed that post on the previous page. Sorry for the confusion. Was trying to wrap my head around what was going on "behind" the alternator. Looked up the parts diagram and I get it now.
BK
sorry for the confusion there
as it was explained to me there is a bearing directly behind the alternator through which i believe a shaft passes
when my mech removed the alternator the inner race/cage of that bearing had broken leaving only the outer race still in the motor
i will post up pix once i pick it up from the dealer
if i cannot get DNA to help on the repair it will be sold as is or parted out here in the sf/bay area
Quote from: grumpyman on January 07, 2013, 07:55:56 PM
sorry for the confusion there
as it was explained to me there is a bearing directly behind the alternator through which i believe a shaft passes
when my mech removed the alternator the inner race/cage of that bearing had broken leaving only the outer race still in the motor
i will post up pix once i pick it up from the dealer
if i cannot get DNA to help on the repair it will be sold as is or parted out here in the sf/bay area
I'm thinking the starter sprag bearing
(http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i358/grumpus66/2013-01-11_20-37-46_420_zpsf52fc51a.jpg)
this is part of the cage
(http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i358/grumpus66/2013-01-11_20-40-51_260_zpsfedfe36f.jpg)
apparently it is a main crank bearing
they are giving me this part number 70240931A
and these were the parts removed to get at the failed bearing
the plastic cage in my hand was part of what came out that should not have
the high cost of this repair is that you have to split the cases and then replace a lot of bearings and it is a lot of labor
i did finally manage to talk with someone at ducati north america today and was told that it was out of warranty
i asked the guy i talked to to send my request higher up the food chain as my view is that a failure of this kind to a low miles bike that has not been abused and has been maintained is just not acceptable
i now have the answer as to why a main crank bearing failed
ducati has been using the same crank bearing with a steel sleeve since 1974 in pretty much everything
on the newer bikes they switched to a cheaper slightly larger bearing that eliminates the steel sleeve
the new bearings have less bearings and are more prone to failure
this is what bit me in the ass on my wifes 696
the shop that is doing my rebuild uses the older bearings when they do crank bearings/rebuilds and chuck them out on any race motor they build
we are going to pay to rebuild this bike as my wife likes it but i still think ducati should be giving out bearings to cover their stupid engineering descision
Quote from: grumpyman on January 21, 2013, 05:23:12 PM
the shop that is doing my rebuild uses the older bearings when they do crank bearings/rebuilds and chuck them out on any race motor they build
Kämna, who did my engine, took a quick look at that same bearing - shook his head, made a nice 3 point throw into the garbage bin and called Ducati on his hot line, but not even he is capable of getting Ducati to admit engineering mistakes. Ducati's supplier of these poor bearings went out of business and Ducati sent Kämna three new bearings to choose from. Budget decision for which customers are paying the price - not the first, or last, time I'm afraid.
Old bearing is 751913380, shown as a 35x72x17 bearing, and is a standard size angular contact bearing, a 7207.
New one is 70240921A, shown as a 35x78x19, a bastard size AFAIK.
They started using this new one in ~'07, and it's used on the 1098 motor......
my info is that they went back to the old bearing in the new big bikes
i did call them today and told them i was pissed that their stupid bearing is gonna cost me 2 grand to fix
if you gotta split your cases throw the old bearing in there while your at it
Quote from: grumpyman on January 21, 2013, 05:23:12 PM
...........
the shop that is doing my rebuild uses the older bearings when they do crank bearings/rebuilds and chuck them out on any race motor they build
...............
My engine is apart again, but this time there are no old bearings available (my builder says).
Grumpy: do you have access to more?