Ducati Monster Forum

Hello,

I am a bit desperate. Can you please give me a hand at deciding which mods should I choose for my 2010 Monster 796?

There is the dilemma:

Option 1. I can get the "DP Titan Termignoni kit" for a very good price.
Option 2. The second option is that I can get full SC project Exhaust(FULL SYSTEM 2-1 with OVAL SILENCER http://www.sc-project.com/ducati_monster_796_e.htm (http://www.sc-project.com/ducati_monster_796_e.htm)) for 800Euros which is 7,5 kilos lighter and gives you 5,6HP more.

If I choose "Option 2" and if I buy the Dynojet Powercommander V and Autotune(and fine tune it on a Dyno) and buy the DUC.EE to eliminate the exhaust flapper, what do I have to do to remove the O2 sensor? And do I have to flash the stock ECU?
You see the problem is that the PCV on the official page is specified just for 2011 model. Mine is 2010? Are there any differences in model years?

My greatest question would be, should I go for the Option 1 or Option 2, would it be sensible to go for the PCV and autotune with the Option 1?

Are the OEM collectors a lot worse than the SC Project?

Jeez, I hope I didnt ask too many questions.

Cheers, Gregor

I'm not an expert on the newer bikes, but I know that the Termi kit is usually considered fool proof, results in smoother running and a nice lift in torque.

The other option might not be as easy to make work - even if the idea of a custom map is tempting.

At €800, I think you have a bargain  [thumbsup]

Duc.ee can be added for louder music at lower revs 8)

Hmmm...
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=111.msg830#msg830 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=111.msg830#msg830)

Whooops  ;D

Name: Gregor
Location: Slovenia
Bike: Ducati Monster 796 MY 2010
How long you've been riding: I've been riding since I was 17 so since 2007
Anything else you'd like to share: My first bike was the two stroke Aprilia RS 125 2007, it got me "hooked" on motorcycles, especially Italian ones. I regret selling it because it was something special... Then I had the Monster 696 and sold it very quickly because the 796 came out and I immediately fell in love  ;D . It is quite a funny story really, because when I had the 696 I went to the dealer to buy the "DP Termignoni kit" and left with nothing. Nothing, except that BIG headache because I saw the "single swing armed massive rear tyre beauty" called 796 all shiny in the show room  ;D. Well luckily I sold the 696 in one week and bought the 796 and I am keeping it for good because it feels just right for me. Well, that would be it.

 

I'm running a SC-Project 2-1 on my 09 M1100s. It's a nicely built system. I have no complaints, and like it better than the Termis. My ECU has been flashed with a Rexxer map that deletes the 02 sensors and the flapper valve(no need for the Duc.ee). I also have installed a MWR air filter. I haven't seen the need  to install a PCV.

DucNaked,

I'm almost fully convinced to go for the SC Project exhaust. On their page http://www.sc-project.com/ducati_monster_796_e.htm (http://www.sc-project.com/ducati_monster_796_e.htm) they sell the co called "MEM power unit" where it, among other things, says that it eliminates sensors. But I've sent an email to them, if this unit can replace the ECU reflash and if it eliminates the flapper valve and the O2 sensor so that closed looped portion of the map can be altered.

What do you think DucNaked?

BTW, thank you for your help!!!

thoughts

Option 1: You get upgaded ECU, Air filter and open air cover, termi slipons

Option 2: you get full system, no ecu, no air filter.
You'll need a Duc.ee as I see nothing included to eliminate the flapper valve error.

The memjet is just a dobeck/twobrothers type fueler, with limited adjustment, but simplistic as well. and additional 168 euro.
Duc.ee is what another 120 euro. filter another 80 and open cover (a DYI mod)

The hp figures are likely the same on the two systems but the SC Project will cost you 378 euro more

The claim on weight drop is from stock system, not on the termi which are also lighter than stock since they dont have catalytic convertors and are lighter materials. yes, you have two cans over one can, but that's about 1-2 kilos extra.

this is one of the few times I would say Termi over another system due to the price.

Termi for 800 euro is not a bad deal. ESPECIALLY Titanium ones.

Yeah, 800 euros for the Termi kit is a good deal. It will be a plug and play affair.

The other exhaust will require more, like the PC-V and possibility some more to get a comprable result.
To answer a question, no you would not need to Flash the ECU - that's the purpose of the PC-V module. I eliminates the need to directly alter the ECU settings.

Buuuuut - what about spending that money on say, suspension?

Though perhaps not as gratifying as you cant say to your buddies that you picked up !0% horsepower, dialed in, better suspension makes way more difference at the end of the day. Back when I started off on a 620 - the base base suspension available and got decently quick on it and *thought* it felt fine. *Though* mind you.
I sold the 620 and picked up a 900S from a member here with an Ohlins shock and forks that had been redone by Race Tech and all set up. The difference of feeling was *MARKED*. That suspension on the 900 felt so much more connected and glued to the ground. More traction, better feel, more comfy.

Guys, thank you very much for your help! I have decided to buy the Termignoni kit. I don't know if the SC project would do it for me because it only has one pipe at the end and I really like the stock two pipe configuration. In the future, I will maybe buy custom collectors and flash the Termignoni ECU. When I get the exhaust, probably in February(depends from the Italians  ;D), I will post some pictures.

...if in the future you do decide to reflash your ECU, my advice FWIW would be to reflash you stock ECU and leave the Termi ECU unmolested.

I plan on doing that aswell, but that can be very expensive. Any suggestions about the suspension upgrade? Probably the best thing if I would buy forks and rear chock from lets say 1198?

that's my eventual plan as well. The termi ECU has value, the stock-not so much

Yes, you have a point here about the ECU...

Which forks do you have now? Since it's a 2010, I can't be sure. My 2011 has Marzocchi and it's pretty good actually. If you have Showa, THAT needs help.

A "cheap"  ;) fix for the rear is an Ohlins DU-737 built and sprung for your weight and riding conditions. In the U.S. that was ~ $625-. This will leave you with a suspension which works very well but could be 10% better if you want to spend a fortune. I didn't. :)

If you have the Marzocchi forks, it might be a good time to change the oil with the correct 7.5W if they aren't quite smooth enough for you.

Yes, the 2010 model has Showa 43mm front forks, are they much worse than Marzocchi forks used on 2011 model?
The suspension seems ok, but what I really miss is that progresive feel on the front brakes, they feel a bit numb. Don't get me wrong they still stop very good, but I could do with a bit more feedback from the brake lever...

That's the rumor..., if you read fora. ;) If in doubt, best to ride a 2011- and compare for yourself. Everything is subjective.

When my 2011 came in, my dealer, who is Ohlins-certified and an ex-racer (Ducati) with many titles, fitted the DU-737 and set the sag for his weight (slightly more than me) and only backed off the damping one click. He WAS going to tear the forks apart and play with tuning them and adjusting air and oil levels..., but after riding the bike, he pronounced the bike "perfectly balanced" and saw no reason to do more. As far as he was concerned, the shock did the trick. To make either end 10% more plush would probably cost major $$$. Not in my budget. http://www.ducpond.com/aboutus.asp (http://www.ducpond.com/aboutus.asp)

Can't help you with the brakes. Might be worth changing the fluid with some premium, long-life DOT 4 though.

Change pads. look at cali cycleworks for a great pad comparison

At the risk of starting a flame war with Curmudgeon...I'd junk the front end and look for a set of 1100s adjustable Showas, or Ohlins up front.  You can rebuild and respring a set of used adjustable forks and get them dialed in to right where you want them pretty affoardably.  ($1500US should be able to get you riding on a set of Showas...figure $3000 for everything to run the Ohlins...of course this could be high or low depending on how easily/cheaply you can get parts/favors) 

(Sorry Curmudgeon...this is where we have vastly different opinions of the bike)

I've got my new (used) forks out for a rebuild and respring while I wait for the rest of my parts to show up. 

As for the brakes, pads should help, radial master cylinder will give you a better feel/more control too.

Flame war? 8) Figure you just have idle hands and too much snow on the ground in New Hampshire. ;)

Everybody is entitled to their $0.02. The OP might not have wanted to throw this kind of $$$ at a $10,000 bike which isn't a horror out of the box. Always a good idea to take it slow trying to "fix" something which isn't badly broken. Every radical mod you do usually results in other costly mods ad infinitum. Don't ask how I know this..., or maybe ask Reg Pridmore, AMOL Precision, Reno Leoni and Eraldo Ferracci. ;D (My pockets were deeper in those days!)

Back to the 796: Hadn't had a Ducati since my 851. When I spotted the 796, it looked like something which might replace my 600 SL which was always a fave to ride but had race ergos. The M796 appeared to be a good replacement with upright ergos. Sooo..., I rode the demo on a mixed course with rail road tracks, twisties, broken pavement, 70+ MPH, etc. When I got back, I picked the bike apart with the dealer, who's a Master Tech and an engineer. The bike was light, nimble and sure-footed enough and had no evil manners. The rear wasn't doing much but the forks were acceptable. No doubt the factory preload setting was too high, but the Sachs didn't seem to be doing anything useful.

The Ohlins DU-737 has decent damping for a decent price. Naturally it could be better for X3 the price. At least now both ends are working together.

Three years ago I broke my shoulder bigtime, so I'm very sensitive to shock and jolts. This set-up is firm but never pounding. I'm retired, so my budget is tapped. No doubt if this combo were really "off", I'd grit my teeth and "fix" it. Been there, done that, drawer full of t-shirts. ;) The Marzocchi fork could be smoother. If it had a drain like the older bikes, I'd have tried a couple of things already. Always had great luck with Golden Spectro 10W on Euro bikes which called for 10W as it's ~ 8W and SMOOOOOTH. Tried 'em all too. At the 7.5K I'll have it changed and drop the level 20mm for starters. If that makes it too soft, it's easy enough to add more.

Now..., would I like a controlled, plusher ride on both ends? Sure.... But not at great cost. It's just not cost-effective on a $10,000 bike. And virtually none of it is recoverable when you sell or trade the bike. (Not my first rodeo.)

Good luck with the 1100S forks. Maybe they'll ring your bell. You may have to play with them a bit before you're satisfied. I have no clue why you started on that end first though. Are you sure you bought the right bike?  [roll]

What are brakes? 8)

M1100 has Showas.  M1100s has Ohlins.  And really, I wouldn't bother.

Interesting comments. I thought that most of you would be positive on upgrades, especially when it comes to brakes and suspension. But when I think of it, it really makes no sense to invest tons of money in upgrades, when I could be getting a motorcycle that has better components as stock.

Hmmm, Marchos, better than Showa? IDK. Anyhow, do the 1100 forks a direct bolt on, as in no height adjustments? Second, who has installed Race-Tech internals in the stock 796 Showas?

Thanks

Sorry to the OP to keep drawing your thread away from your actual original question...  (just reread and saw you did actually ask about suspension)

But everyone keeps throwing around dollar signs about suspension and why/why not to do it.  So for a little prespective, when I had the 696 I looked into upgrades to the stock forks, traxxion has the AX-20 cartridge kit for $2000, I think racetech was around $1500, (parts only) and both required you to ship your forks to them for basically a retrofit since they needed to be drilled and tapped for the rebound adjustment screw.  This was 3+ years ago so things may have changed in terms of direct drop in kits and cost...but no matter how I looked at it, $1500-$2000 +maching costs (I think racetech quoted me around $2600 to get the fork to the point that they would consider it "pretty good") was more than I could spend at the time. Now that I can spend the money on suspension...my thought process was "why butcher and modify a stock fork to make it 'pretty good' when I can upgrade the entire front end (including triples, bars, brake/clutch controls) and retrofit a fork already proven to be 'very good' for not much more money?"  The suspension techs know how to work on the Ohlins, theres no secret there, not to say a traxxion AX-20 is more complicated...but being a sealed gascharged unit...it is a bit more restrictive in tuneability.

Now the one single point that I will agree with my buddy on is the DU-737.  Like he said, a "cheap upgrade" at least as suspension dollars go.  My suspension tech advised me to go with that shock to compliment the front hes building, but he also noted that when sprung for your weight, the stock is "eh" and leaves something to be desired, but not the worst out there.  As for using 1198 parts, front end sure, with the other work involved in doing the swap.  Rear end, sorry, your SOL.  the SBKs use a linkage rear suspension that the monsters dont...as an alternative to the DU-737 I am investigating an external reservoir rear shock, but so far its not been promising. 


SBK (848/1198)
(http://parts.ducatisanantonio.com/images/parts/ducati/fullsize/SBK1198_USA_2009082.jpg)

Monster 796/1100
(http://www.ducatimcparts.com/images/parts/ducati/fullsize/M1100_USA_2009078.jpg)



If you decide you want to trade up to an 848, I wouldnt blame you...I had the thought myself (Blasphemy!!)  BUT, if you decide (as many of us here have) to pour your heart, soul, and savings accound into your monster...there is a wealth of information and knowledgeable people on here that will be more than happy to help you run up your credit card bill.  I am working on the SBK front end conversion for my 796 in the mods section, and will write up a tutorial when finished.  If you decide you want to do something like that, I for one, encourage it! (Hell, its a better habbit than heroin right?)

Cheers  [beer]

So just ride the bike the way it is unless you are racing...