04 620, 51k. Hypermotard clutch master, Oberon clutch slave.
I recently had some clutch slave/master problems which led to the setup above.
Since switching to that set up I have a feeling the clutch isn't engaging all the way when I release the lever.
1- There is very little, perhaps none, freeplay at the lever. I can't figure out how to increase it. I backed out that adjuster on the piston which led to immediately stalling once dropped into gear. It did take more stroke at the lever to disengage the clutch pack but when freshly running in the morning it stalled immediately.
2- The bike runs hotter than I ever remember it running. Even yesterday when it was a chilly sub-60F day, at 75mph the temp gauge showed 225-230.
3- A lot of slippage in 5th gear. 6th seems OK, not really positive about the others. When merging on the highway, 5th gear seems to be where I'm at when I really need to pass someone, and when I crack the throttle, the revs shoot up while my road speed does not, then a second or 2 later they'll drop and my road speed will climb. I do have a new clutch pack sitting on my bench, but I fear this won't resolve everything.
Mostly i'm looking for any suggestions on adjusting the freeplay at the lever properly? I'm hoping that will resolve what I'm seeling.
Secondly, is there something else I might be overlooking?
thanks.
1. enough oil? (wet or dry clutch?)
2. which DOT did you use? I use 3 most of the other guys a higher, but I like 3 and it was on my manual...
3. coffin or 748 like master?
4. leaks? your banjo bolts could be dirty so not enough fluid gets to the slave cylinder... rod...
5. OEM slave cylinder or aftermarket?
Did you use the Oberon spacer that goes in the slave cylinder?
Quote from: koko64 on January 02, 2013, 08:12:14 PM
Did you use the Oberon spacer that goes in the slave cylinder?
no, instructions indicated that was pre-2000 only.
1- What sort of master exactly are we discussing. I think there's been a couple flavors over the run and models of the Hyper
2- Probably not related
3- Slippage will be more pronounced in higher gears
4- Leaks would cause problems disengaging the clutch. He's got the opposite issue that it won't engage fully/slips
5- After market. Oberon.
- So in my experience clutch engagement issues after twiddling with the lever free play are almost always due to a lack of sufficient free play. Too little and the fluid return port will be partially, or fully blocked. With the fluid not able to return to the reservoir one is able to pump up the clutch and it won't return. So, let's go back to your levers and start there,
Quote from: Slide Panda on January 03, 2013, 06:01:58 AM
1- What sort of master exactly are we discussing. I think there's been a couple flavors over the run and models of the Hyper
09 Hypermotard 1100.
So it's a radial right? With pin threaded into a small metal drum? If that's the config, you'll need to have the lever off and flip over that drum+pin. There's a tiny grub screw that retains the threaded pin that you'll need to loosen to properly adjust the free-play.
When you get that done, it's easy to carry to tools to do the adjustment on you to the bike so keep them on hand so you can further adjust.
When adjusting, a little can be a long way, so don't go turning it all the one way or another - you'll just create more hassles. Small, regular increments like 1/4, 1/3, or 1/2 turns are the way to go.
Looks like SP has you pointed in the right direction.
I'm not familiar with the HM hardware per se, but typically I like to have have a couple mm of mechanical free play at the lever and I also look for the reservoir fluid to "jump" when the lever is released. This confirms that the fluid return circuit is functioning correctly and is not blocked by maladjustment or something else. The lever/MC is setup together as a pair, so if you change one or the other you need to verify the adjustment.
Is the Oberon a "reduced effort" slave, and if so why would you want that on your particular clutch?
Also would not hurt to pull the clutch rod from the slave side and make sure it's still smooth and straight and not binding up on anything.
BK
Quote from: Slide Panda on January 03, 2013, 06:21:52 AM
So it's a radial right? With pin threaded into a small metal drum? If that's the config, you'll need to have the lever off and flip over that drum+pin. There's a tiny grub screw that retains the threaded pin that you'll need to loosen to properly adjust the free-play.
When you get that done, it's easy to carry to tools to do the adjustment on you to the bike so keep them on hand so you can further adjust.
When adjusting, a little can be a long way, so don't go turning it all the one way or another - you'll just create more hassles. Small, regular increments like 1/4, 1/3, or 1/2 turns are the way to go.
This.
I had the same issues with my radial masters when I put in new levers. Have to adjust it a bit to get the feel you want from it.
Also, careful when messing around with the rubber boot that covers the plunger... they can tear pretty easy. When trying to get that plunger back in... it can be difficult. Dont rush it and use some white lithium grease to try to slide the boot over.
Quote from: Slide Panda on January 03, 2013, 06:21:52 AM
When adjusting, a little can be a long way, so don't go turning it all the one way or another - you'll just create more hassles. Small, regular increments like 1/4, 1/3, or 1/2 turns are the way to go.
thanks, this seemed to be the trick. instead of twisting it like a neanderthal, i backed it out in 1/4 turns until it started acting funny, then back 1/8. Seemed to do the trick. I have some free travel at the lever now, not much but some, and the engagement area of the travel seems to have moved closer to the bars. The tach seems to spin a little slower at the same highway speed.
I haven't tested the 5th gear slip yet.
You want 1.5 -2 mm. free play.
Quote from: howie on January 05, 2013, 05:19:40 AM
You want 1.5 -2 mm. free play.
I was waiting for howie to post :)
When I started having trouble all I could think about was the other times (with other master cylinders) we've talked about free play. I knew it was a problem but I was too stupid to figure it out immediately.
I didn't measure it but it's probably close to that.
IME the wet APTC clutch needs quite a lot of lever movement to go from engaged to fully disengaged.
By 'fully disengaged' I mean when the wheel almost doesn't spin when on a rear stand - alternatively when you can't detect any forward pull sitting/standing at a red light in first gear.
That means as little lever freeplay as possible and a hand full of lever pull. Even then it's not more than just enough on a stock master/slave combo.
You added 25% on the slave (from 26 to 29 mm?) which would be bad if you didn't also add at the master. If the master you had was 13 and the Hyper is 16 mm you gained ~50%, so the master/front ratio should be more than ok. The unknown, but measureable, lever ratio needs to be equal for this to be apples and apples. Can you measure from center of pivot to plunger base?
Quote from: stopintime on January 05, 2013, 08:58:20 AM
IME the wet APTC clutch needs quite a lot of lever movement to go from engaged to fully disengaged.
By 'fully disengaged' I mean when the wheel almost doesn't spin when on a rear stand - alternatively when you can't detect any forward pull sitting/standing at a red light in first gear.
That means as little lever freeplay as possible and a hand full of lever pull. Even then it's not more than just enough on a stock master/slave combo.
You added 25% on the slave (from 26 to 29 mm?) which would be bad if you didn't also add at the master. If the master you had was 13 and the Hyper is 16 mm you gained ~50%, so the master/front ratio should be more than ok. The unknown, but measureable, lever ratio needs to be equal for this to be apples and apples. Can you measure from center of pivot to plunger base?
Correct. IMO, there is no need for more hydraulic advantage of a larger slave with the APTC clutch. But if clutch drag is not a problem with proper free play and Privateer is happy all is good.
I seem to be a magnet for stuff that breaks on the left side of the bike. After going through two slaves and two master cylinders .. well, at this point I kind of use what I can find that fits. /shrug