I'm wondering what the role of textile is in everyone's wardrobe of moto gear. I've seen some good deals on last year's textile jackets and considered buying one but wasn't sure how it would fit in my current gear set up. I normally ride with a leather jacket and kevlar jeans.
For those that have both textile and leather gear, when do you use one over the other? How do they complement each other, or are they just two alternatives that are a point for individual preference?
I always wear textile overpants. Aerostitch Darien. They're convenient so I'll always wear them, and waterproof. Leather pants are a pain in the ass, and you're stuck wearing them wherever you go.
I wear my textile jacket (again, A'stitch Darien) when it might rain (waterproof), is cold (heated jackets fits underneath), or on long trips (never know what weather will do).
Leather jacket only gets worn on local rides, when the weather is nice and warm...not often in Seattle sadly.
In general I prefer my A'stitch stuff because it offers very good protection, and is very versatile. I truly think it's the best riding gear available. Pricey, but it lasts forever.
Textile is great for when it's hotter... I have the Rev'it Air and it's my go to jacket for anything over 85 degrees out. And also, like previously mentioned, you can ride through rain and not worry about it too much... along with the fact that most of the cooler weather gear tends to be textile.
Overall, if you can afford it, getting a solid mesh jacket for the summer is a great idea along with a warmer jacket for the winters. Textile pants are also a solid investment, way more protective than kevlar jeans and way more usable than leather pants.
I think you're based in NYC 1.21 and you should really look into hitting up the Rev'it sample sale when they come around. You can pick up a very solid set for a steal there.
I actually have a mesh one (Ducati Flow jacket) but I found myself not wearing it much. I just felt like my leather (RS Ronin) had more protection. Frankly, above 85F it seems that I'm going to be hot no matter what.
From what I'm hearing, the difference between textile/leather is:
- textile is better for rain
- textile is lighter in weight/feel
- leather is better protection (??) (though it seems textile is still provides adequate protection)
- textile is better for cold weather (or maybe just more common)
- textile pants can be worn over other pants
- textile pants don't make you look like an 80s hair band guitarist when you're off the bike
- textile actually is cheaper than leather (TripleJ's Darien is $450 on the co. website, $100+ less than most leather jackets)
Quote from: thought on January 03, 2013, 09:42:00 PM
I think you're based in NYC 1.21 and you should really look into hitting up the Rev'it sample sale when they come around. You can pick up a very solid set for a steal there.
Yeah, it was last month and I missed it. I was in SF on black friday and saw some stuff ~50% off at the Dainese store, which was the impetus for this thread.
Quote from: 1.21GW on January 03, 2013, 10:00:08 PM
- textile pants don't make you look like an 80s hair band guitarist when you're off the bike
and THIS is exactly why I don't wear textile pants. \m/
And sometimes it's the application too.
They do not make leather ADV jackets. Some have leather sections, but really they are all textile. So for my (lame) ADV riding I trot out textile there - a Rev'it jacket and Klim over boot dirtbike pants supplemented whit armor shorts and forcefield "zeus' knees
For street, textile usually falls into mellow rides and erranding. The weight, lack of really, less odd looks and better low speed ventilation make it more practical around town. But if I'm going to be hooning a bit the leathers come out.
Quote from: 1.21GW on January 03, 2013, 10:00:08 PM
- textile actually is cheaper than leather (TripleJ's Darien is $450 on the co. website, $100+ less than most leather jackets)
Textile is GENERALLY cheaper than leather. There are outliers in every segment. With some work you can find nice leathers for low cost. Example I just bought a brand new w/ tags Rev'It 1pc for just over $500. It was their top model, but has been replaced by a new model and vendors area clearing out 'old' stock. Took at while of watching eBay, but I got a suit that had an original MSRP of about $1300 for a song.
On the other end, the top jackets from Rukka or Klim - which are textile ARE $1300... ow
Quote from: 1.21GW on January 03, 2013, 10:00:08 PM
- textile is better for rain [if it's built for it. Goretex is the only way to go]
- textile is lighter in weight/feel
- leather is better protection (??) [IMO a quality textile offers equal protection for the street; however, it's more of a one-use application, whereas leather may survive several spills]
- textile is better for cold weather [Just because it's usually looser fitting, so allows layers/heated gear more comfortably]
- textile pants can be worn over other pants [Leather overpants are available...they're heavy]
- textile pants don't make you look like an 80s hair band guitarist when you're off the bike [laugh]
- textile actually is cheaper than leather (TripleJ's Darien is $450 on the co. website, $100+ less than most leather jackets) [like Panda said...maybe]
I may go back to textile someday but leather works for me now, with venting of course. Spring-summer-fall, rain or shine.
My frog-toggs cover me for below 40F or longer rides below 50F - they get ALOT of use as cold weather cover.
I survived OK in the heat with the vents on my Vanson MK2 plus the mesh on my Rev-It Gear leather / mesh pants.
I'm able to change out of the pants at work, slight sacrifice to convenience there. I feel more secure in the fitted leather.
I think the attraction of textile is there are so many options at a low price point. The high end stuff offers lots of function and versatility. I get more joy from leather.
All great input. Conclusion is that I'm fine with what I have but will keep an casual eye out for super deals on textile to maybe add a rain-friendly jacket to the collection.
[bacon]
Mini-threadjack to give a [thumbsup] to seevtsaab for showing the saab love. Just gave away my 2002 9-3. Her name was Bridget and she was the best car I ever owned. [sigh]
Oh, and in terms of leather vs textile abrasion resistance, leather abrades better and can generally be used again after a off. Textile will protect you, but it's more likely to not be able to reused.
Quote from: thought on January 04, 2013, 02:41:03 PM
Oh, and in terms of leather vs textile abrasion resistance, leather abrades better and can generally be used again after a off. Textile will protect you, but it's more likely to not be able to reused.
I beg to differ, my textile jacket didn't hold up for shit in my crash and I've got huge scars and loss of feeling in my underarm. I believe that my windscreen broke and cut through my DP textile jacket like a hot knife in butter. The Dr. said my armpit looked like hamburger. Needless to say NO textile for me. I wear my leather everywhere, even in 100+ temps. Maybe I just had bad luck, but the new leathers vent quite well.
Quote from: scduc on January 04, 2013, 07:05:25 PM
I beg to differ, my textile jacket didn't hold up for shit in my crash and I've got huge scars and loss of feeling in my underarm. I believe that my windscreen broke and cut through my DP textile jacket like a hot knife in butter. The Dr. said my armpit looked like hamburger. Needless to say NO textile for me. I wear my leather everywhere, even in 100+ temps. Maybe I just had bad luck, but the new leathers vent quite well.
Sounds like bad luck, or poor quality textile. I know a few people that have gone down in Aerostitch gear and done very well. Accidents are all different, so hard to say though.
The biggest consideration with any gear is fit...be it jacket, pants, helmet, or gloves.
Some textile/mesh gear is so loose that it can ride up in a crash, and any padding gets displaced and becomes useless. Also some inexpensive mesh gear will actually melt and stick to your skin compounding any injury. I've seen that happen. I've personally left a set of gloves on the grips going over the top in a crash.
So my advice regardless of what you wear is a snug enough fit to prevent the garment from moving in a crash.
my opinion is textile is more versatile through a wider range of temperature conditions. A tex jacket with a 1 or 2 different liners and copious venting can serve from pretty cold ("pretty cold" for me is ~40) to up into the 90's. Most good tex will repel surprise rain showers in case you get caught without dedicated rain gear. Not saying leather won't do these things, mind you.
My leather jacket doesn't see as much use because I don't think it's as comfortable and more limited on temperature control.
Good point on fit, ducpainter. But all things being equal, it seems there is debate over the level of protection of various materials.
Does anyone know of an article or study that tested the puncture protection and abrasion resistance of various materials? It seems that all there is is anecdotal evidence, which is not entirely consistent.
There is no better protection than armored leather, IMO, with regard to abrasion protection.
There was a fairly non-scientific test done some years ago by a mag. They concluded leather was best IIRC.
No gear will protect in every instance.
Motorcycles are dangerous you know. ;D
Quote from: ducpainter on January 05, 2013, 11:14:22 AM
Motorcycles are dangerous you know. ;D
Haha. Good point. I guess the safest gear is a third wheel.
Leather with full armor offers the best protection without a doubt. That's why racers of all levels wear it.
Street gear is a balance comfort, protection, and functionality though. I'd never wear my full race gear on the street...it's too much of a pain in the ass, despite it being the best option for protection.
Quote from: Triple J on January 05, 2013, 11:28:01 AM
Leather with full armor offers the best protection without a doubt. That's why racers of all levels wear it.
Street gear is a balance comfort, protection, and functionality though. I'd never wear my full race gear on the street...it's too much of a pain in the ass, despite it being the best option for protection.
I used to wear a one piece on the street...
PITA is an understatement. [thumbsup]
Quote from: Triple J on January 05, 2013, 11:28:01 AM
Leather with full armor offers the best protection without a doubt. That's why racers of all levels wear it.
Street gear is a balance comfort, protection, and functionality though. I'd never wear my full race gear on the street...it's too much of a pain in the ass, despite it being the best option for protection.
Yet one is more likely to be in a crash on the street. Go figure. Usually not doing 130 on the street though....
My textile jackets purpose is to decorate the hook in my closet. Leather all the time for me.
But here may be a future solution to hot heavy leather that is stronger than leather:
http://www.schoeller-textiles.com/en/technologies/ceraspace.html (http://www.schoeller-textiles.com/en/technologies/ceraspace.html)
Quote from: memper on January 10, 2013, 07:12:07 PM
Yet one is more likely to be in a crash on the street. Go figure. Usually not doing 130 on the street though....
My textile jackets purpose is to decorate the hook in my closet. Leather all the time for me.
But here may be a future solution to hot heavy leather that is stronger than leather:
http://www.schoeller-textiles.com/en/technologies/ceraspace.html (http://www.schoeller-textiles.com/en/technologies/ceraspace.html)
I disagree. You're more likely to crash on the track. I don't know anyone that regularly does trackdays (or races) that hasn't crashed (twice for me, and very close to 3-5 times). I know a lot of people who haven't ever crashed on the street though (like me for example). That said, your street crash is likely to be more severe due to other drivers and obstacles...things that gear can't always protect against.
That material looks cool. Someday we should see something better than leather. Aerostitch claims their material is more abrasion resistant than leather; however, leather is thicker so offers better overall protection (which they admit). Leathers thickness is a big part of why it is so good.
Not to change the subject, but isnt a rider more at risk on the street simply because there are more factors that can complicate safe riding? On the track you have great pavement, experienced people around you, everyone going in the same direction, no cars, bikes or pedestrians. Basically the best possible conditions. Is this assumption wrong?
(this is my logic I'm using to convince my wife its safer on the track than on the street--she dont want me racing [Dolph])
Quote from: memper on January 11, 2013, 07:26:10 AM
Not to change the subject, but isnt a rider more at risk on the street simply because there are more factors that can complicate safe riding? On the track you have great pavement, experienced people around you, everyone going in the same direction, no cars, bikes or pedestrians. Basically the best possible conditions. Is this assumption wrong?
(this is my logic I'm using to convince my wife its safer on the track than on the street--she dont want me racing [Dolph])
I agree completely. I even think racing is generally safer than trackdays because there aren't as many amateurs out there doing unpredictable things. That said, you push harder on trackdays, and especially racing, so you crash every so often. Usually the main damage is to your wallet though because of the safety features in place.
Generally speaking you will crash more at the track; however, the less frequent street crashes will usually be more severe.
So more often on the track but less dangerous and less often on the street but more dangerous (and unpredictable). Seems like one should take the Boy Scout approach and always be prepared. I vote no to textiles unless tip top quality.
So - i figure one day, one day mind you, that engineered materials will replace leather. These materials may or may not be textile (a flexible woven material consisting of a network fibers). There's been a lot of advances in creating man made protective materials and it's only going to continue. Right now, leather offers a lot for the price. But one day, something will come along offering more at the same price/offer the same for less. It'll be interesting to watch.
Regarding the track - overall it's safer even with the mix of folks at track days vs licensed racers. Points for the wife
- Closed course that is blown free of debris and patrolled by a marshall before it's opened for the day
- All traffic goes the same way
- No autos
- Built in safe run off areas.
- Flaggers to warn of issues ahead
- Same set of turns, over and over. No unpredictable, gravel strewn, off-camber 90 deg right after a blind rise on that new road you're exploring
- EMTs w/ ambulances on site, seconds away who will be mobilized immediately if needed. Not a phone call and X minutes or hours out - if you can get them
- (Generally) rules of conduct and passing - will vary from organization to org and from experience group to group.
Yes there's the potential for a crash at the track - but there's on the roads as well. And on the track you're a lot more in control of the risks than you can be on the streets. Generally at the track, if you crash it's your fault. On the roads there's a lot more of 'the other guy' making for accidents.
Quote from: Slide Panda on January 14, 2013, 06:37:58 AM
- Built in safe run off areas.
Sometimes. There are some sketchy tracks out there unfortunately. :-\ Many were designed for cars, where a tire barrier is a good thing...not so much for motos. Good organizations have air fences to help a bit.
True. Some tracks are better than others.
But no track will have this
Motorcycle Crashes Into Hillside - July 28, 2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dciyhfaScAo&feature=share&list=UUvtfT-xYX4Q-jC2Mbsk3OUA#)
Someone on another forum asked about textile because he is a vegan and doesn't want anything leather [roll] Sadly, my armored Shift leather jacket isn't as warm as my armored Tourmaster textile jacket with a fleece jacket underneath.
Quote from: Slide Panda on January 15, 2013, 07:06:38 AM
True. Some tracks are better than others.
But no track will have this
Turn 6 at Pacific Raceways in Seattle. Running wide here can get ugly quick...look at the hill behind racers (I'm the one chasing). Granted, there is a
little more run-off here than in your picture though.
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n258/JJGeo/_dsc2146small.jpg)
That doesn't look so hot...
Ya, it's not ideal. Such are local tracks sometimes though.
Quote from: 1.21GW on January 05, 2013, 10:43:42 AM
Does anyone know of an article or study that tested the puncture protection and abrasion resistance of various materials? It seems that all there is is anecdotal evidence, which is not entirely consistent.
from 2008, but answers some of your questions: http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/Ride%20Magazine/Product%20test%20pdfs/3.5%20SPR08%20Textile%20suits%20test.pdf (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/Ride%20Magazine/Product%20test%20pdfs/3.5%20SPR08%20Textile%20suits%20test.pdf)
(still hunting for something from a more impartial source)
Be nice if there was someone in the US that did as indepth testing as motorcyclenews does - but we can get 'em on iPads in the US now (if you have one)
Though this is 4/5 years out of date, it is interesting. Shocking to see that Rukka, at least at that time rated a 0 on the burst test.