I found 35 PSI (yikes!!!) in the nitrogen bladder today.
What PSI should i get the shop to refill it with? Im 150lbs
I planned on filling her up with 2.5wt. THe original stuff in there was pretty light.
your favorite answer - it totally depends ;D
think in the EDIT 100-300psi range,
double checked for a more universal answer, Racetech suggests "about 50psi" (think i was confusing socks with oleo struts or something...) /EDIT
whatever it takes to prevent the oil from cavitating, with your specific valving of course.. Higher is better for cavitation, but higher more throws off your spring rate...
Do you know what the shock and its shimstacks were originally built to?
[beer]
50psi? is that right? this is a non emulsion type so theres a bladder involved. I always heard 150psi is the norm.
Which shock are you talking about?
Showa?
Ohlins?
Penske?
999 Showa
50psi seems very low to me too, so I don't think I'd trust my parroting of RT... [bang]
yea 50 seems really low. Im having a hard time pulling the damn shaft off. Everything on this shock is jammed up the wazoo. Me thinks its time to just get another shock. :(
The nut holding the piston on the shaft?
I haven't been inside the Showa shock, but the threads on the shaft are most likely peened, which would need to be ground off - looks like you just want to ground around the outer circumference of the shaft, as there may be some rebound valve parts peened to the inside of the shaft.
Or, Penske! ;D
no the cap that covers the main piston. ive been banging on it and it looks like all sorts of make the beast with two backsed up and it aint coming off so i can pull the shaft out.
i am too poor to buy a $1,000 penske. I might pick up a used one for $600 thats about the max of my budget. and im not willing to send this out cause i might as well jsut get teh penske at that point!
ahh, that part... propane torch and a 20lb sledge hammer? :D
Managed to pick up a used Penske shock a little while back for <500, double clicker not a triple but lucked out with a digressive setup - it was the absolute worst thing I could have possibly done for the performance of my bike's forks...
Well i took that part off, topped her off and sealed her up.
BUT. Ive called 15 shops in NYC. no one does nitrogen. ;\
THe one i thought WOULD do it (duc soho) is not allowed to have nitrogen in the shop....
wait... its not flammable, we breathe more of it than air in everyday...and its...nope nvm. let me just stop asking questions. :\
i wish you guys hear some of these responses im getting
"you dont need to recahrge it with nitrogen"
"no ones ever requested that"
"just use air"
i mean really! after shipping charges and rechrage cost i might as well as buy the reharge station and use the nitrogen at school!
Quote from: He Man on January 10, 2013, 10:13:48 AM
THe one i thought WOULD do it (duc soho) is not allowed to have nitrogen in the shop....
What the hell?
Though not any direct help to this application - I learned from a Penske rep that race teams will run as low a pressure as they can without allowing for cavitation. Lower pressure allows for better performance in the shock. Of course these are shocks that are seeing a race or two between being attended to/inspected, not ones that will see a year or two (or more) between TLC sessions
Quote from: He Man on January 10, 2013, 10:13:48 AM
Well i took that part off, topped her off and sealed her up.
BUT. Ive called 15 shops in NYC. no one does nitrogen. ;\
THe one i thought WOULD do it (duc soho) is not allowed to have nitrogen in the shop....
wait... its not flammable, we breathe more of it than air in everyday...and its...nope nvm. let me just stop asking questions. :\
i wish you guys hear some of these responses im getting
"you dont need to recahrge it with nitrogen"
"no ones ever requested that"
"just use air"
i mean really! after shipping charges and rechrage cost i might as well as buy the reharge station and use the nitrogen at school!
You could run it up to ECS.
after tolls and gas, they are way too far out there. There are some shops on LI...but...i used air. I have a dehumidifier inline with my compressor. It hardly had any water in there today since its a cool dry day and Air is 78% N2 anyway. I can't see what could possibly go wrong.
soo...ill check back with you guys if it blows up ( im pretty sure it wont, that thing can hold up to 200psi, and ive only got 150 in there. any boiling moisture isnt going to increase 50psi, even if that bladder is small.
Seeing how easy it was to get into the shock after all the hammering and scars i made...im thinking about doing the racetech gold line valve next time around. But damn those penske shocks are WAY easier to get into.
(http://kuixihe.com/gallery3/var/resizes/Tutorials/Shock-Service/P1040875.JPG?m=1357853960)
This is new fluid, the old stuff was quite dirty. I used 2.5wt
(http://kuixihe.com/gallery3/var/resizes/Tutorials/Shock-Service/P1040878.JPG?m=1357854055)
Rad!
Glad to hear it's not impossible to get into the Showa. I've got one on another bike I've got to dig into and revalve (again, thanks to the Penske experience turning it from a top performed to an utter pile of...), so I really appreciate knowing from this thread the trouble I'm going to face.
If nothing else, the plain air will get you by. Check tire and speed shops in your area too for nitrogen, I hear it's the latest fad to run it - "they" say since the molecules are bigger it leaks a whole lot less. And for the speed freaks it makes setting tire pressure a bit more trivial... Cold, hot, what? Is there a difference?..
And, in the meantime, ride hard and fast - the extra airflow will keep your shock cooler and reduce the effect of the air expanding ;D
[beer]
Good thoughts, Frankenduc. Costco fills tires with nitrogen, you would need to supply the regulator. Some air conditioning repair shops use nitrogen too.
Higher end paintball shops might have it too.
I brought it to costco yeterday and the guy said is too unsafe and they wont take the risk.
My regulator only goes up to 150psi. and they will not allow me near their equipment.
No other tire shop in the area is willing to let me touch their equipment either and only 2 of the 10 ive called even have N2. No motorcycle shop in NYC has N2 either. :P
I havent thought about paintball shops though, ill look into that, thats a great suggestion!
How about throwing in the towel on N2 and using Argon instead? You may be able to find a willing welding shop that likes motorcyclists.
Ive got access to both N2 and Argon (and CO2) N2 at work and argon/co2 at my brothers welding shop, but i still need that adapater thingy. and again, my regulator only goes up to 150psi. Which im not sure if thats enough.
Does argon retain water?
Well, for what it is worth, the 888 Showa N2 spec was 142 PSI. The Ohlins for the S.P.O./S.P.5 version of the same model were 240 PSI.
Don't know about the adapter thingie. It can be frustrating, but maybe a visit to the chem, materials science, or physics lab at school may yield results? Perhaps you may want to change whatever valve comes on the Showa and replace it with something more user friendly? The 888 Showa had a Shrader looking valve.
it is a schrader valve already, its because the cavity is so small if you tried to fill it up with a normal pump, you would get the pressure and immediatly loose it when you remove the filling tool.
So they created this special device
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FICCP8/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_4?ie=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FICCP8/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_4?ie=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
You fill the tool up with the same pressure as the bladder, then you can release the valve so no gas escape (since it equal pressure in the tool). This way you can maintain the pressure.
but im trying to figure out how to get this connected to the tank.
If your N2 supply is cheap... I'd use a regular bicycle floor pump, connect it to the shuttle, and have a friend flood the pump inlet area with N2 as you pump it up. Shouldn't take too long, right.
Small trash can with cover, drill holes for the shaft of the pump, hose, N2 in, air out, seal with duct tape... Ghetto and all that, but I'd rather do that than have 02 in the reservoir.
I understand the problem of pressure loss when filling the resi. Went through it with my modified Sachs. At a guess, what pressure do you think it has retained?
Quote from: battlecry on January 11, 2013, 11:54:34 AM
If your N2 supply is cheap... I'd use a regular bicycle floor pump, connect it to the shuttle, and have a friend flood the pump inlet area with N2 as you pump it up. Shouldn't take too long, right.
Small trash can with cover, drill holes for the shaft of the pump, hose, N2 in, air out, seal with duct tape... Ghetto and all that, but I'd rather do that than have 02 in the reservoir.
That's amazing. [thumbsup]
Quote from: battlecry on January 11, 2013, 11:54:34 AM
If your N2 supply is cheap... I'd use a regular bicycle floor pump, connect it to the shuttle, and have a friend flood the pump inlet area with N2 as you pump it up. Shouldn't take too long, right.
Small trash can with cover, drill holes for the shaft of the pump, hose, N2 in, air out, seal with duct tape... Ghetto and all that, but I'd rather do that than have 02 in the reservoir.
a Bicycle floor pump would blow its own seals at 150psi, its only designed for 50 PSI or so. now i could do the latter, but my compressor is 60 gallons, thats a lot of tanks of N2 before i can fill that compressor up!!!
i think at 150psi, its probably only at 50psi after leak out.
SKS Rennkompressors on Amazon go for ~$45 go up to 225 PSI + or so. I have one and use it on everything. It is built so solid I'd walk dark streets in NYC armed only with that floor pump. I'd even do it with $20 bills hanging out of my pockets.
225 on a bicycle pump!!! THATS MADNESS!!! If thats the case I wonder how much weight lifting i need to do to get that kinda pressure. [evil]
Now thats a solution!!!!
No weight lifting, just borrow a heavy friend to push down on the handle.
The handle comes off, so you can make a gas chamber using PVC pipe or a disposable garbage can or even a kitchen garbage bag to surround it with N2. No biggie to build and you can then even ride this weekend! It will be warm(er)!
waho waho, dont get too far ahead of me, the bike is still having issues, im about to start another thread on it since i just made a video of how its failing to start. its really bugging me out.
Quote from: He Man on January 11, 2013, 04:32:05 PM
225 on a bicycle pump!!! THATS MADNESS!!! If thats the case I wonder how much weight lifting i need to do to get that kinda pressure. [evil]
Now thats a solution!!!!
Not necessarily a solution for you, but PCP airgun floor pumps (look just like bike pumps) can do >3000 psi.
BK
Love all the great ideas coming out on this thread [thumbsup] A lot of really good stuff!!
For "the right setup" I think, outside of plumbing, the difficult point may be the lack of common uses for regulators with 0-200+psi output range. Welding gasses, tires, C02 soda gas, and nitrogen for the keg Guinness some of us occasionally enjoy, they all run lower pressures.
An aviation maintenance shop or airport FBO would have nitrogen tanks with regulator output ranges >>200psi, great if you're in middle of nowhere USA where you could walk right up to the shop, but don't know how easy this would be to do at JFK or Laguardia!
So, getting your own regulator, ~3K-4Kpsi input and 0-200+psi output, turns out most are not much more of a steal than RT's. Lowest I could find new poking around was $150 at McMaster Carr, and most are much more expensive.
But, then there's always Fleabay ;D
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARRIS-425-200-CGA-E-4-GAS-REGULATER-/170482441195?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b18b9beb (http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARRIS-425-200-CGA-E-4-GAS-REGULATER-/170482441195?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b18b9beb)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harris-425-200-Regulator-/170964211358?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ce42d69e (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harris-425-200-Regulator-/170964211358?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ce42d69e)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Harris-425-200-580-Single-Stage-Argon-Helium-Nitrogen-Regulator-3000773-/321051364384#vi-content (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Harris-425-200-580-Single-Stage-Argon-Helium-Nitrogen-Regulator-3000773-/321051364384#vi-content)
(Careful, the Harris 425-200 series regulator by its part number regulates 0-200psi, but for others, just because the gauge goes there doesn't mean the regulator goes there... often a 0-125psi regulator will have a 0-200psi gauge)
The Topeak Shuttle gauge, that looks like a cool little device, I'm going to have to check it out. It has a Schrader type input and an internal check valve, so you can use a standard air filler on it and when you pull the filler away the check valve will prevent backflow from the reservoir. And no gas loss on removal from the reservoir due to the screw-on type output fitting.
for plumbing from a gas regulator to the Schrader type, you should be able to get it all from your local HW store (if you don't have it all in spares from your air compressor setup). Regulator output is going to generally be a 9/16" or 5/8" 18tpi male style fitting, you just need to adapt it to a 1/4" NPT (male/female, whatever it takes) for connecting to a regular compressor air hose, or any quick disconnect. Some already have 1/4"NPT outlets, so no adapting needed. The brass fittings section of the HW store should have what you need.
[beer]
By the time you're done screwing around...
UPS it to ECS or clubhousemotorsports and be done with it.
Quote from: ducpainter on January 13, 2013, 07:22:06 AM
By the time you're done screwing around...
UPS it to ECS or clubhousemotorsports and be done with it.
What are you thinkin', bringin' sensible thoughts in on this.
[laugh]
Howdya go with it?
Quote from: Speeddog on January 13, 2013, 10:41:29 AM
What are you thinkin', bringin' sensible thoughts in on this.
[laugh]
Sorry...
lost my head. :P