here are some pictures of my horizontal cylinder.
what can you tell from the pictures about how the engine is running?
are these colors and dirt normal? (haven't opened another engine so i wouldn't know)
please give me as much info as possible just by looking at the pics .
note: valves are within specs. 10k miles on the bike.
thank you
(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/75062_10152485997410113_32900341_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/539076_10152485999135113_1536246615_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/312404_10152485999585113_295494568_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/798385_10152486000265113_862119511_o.jpg)
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/22209_10152486000890113_2091718491_n.jpg)
Looks like a city bike to me!
Looks OK, no red flags.
Why did you pull it apart?
Quote from: Speeddog on January 29, 2013, 07:58:57 PM
Looks OK, no red flags.
Why did you pull it apart?
im doing the valves. so both cylinders are out. since i took out the pipes so i polish them , i removed the heads to adjust the valves properly (i have limited space to move in my garage)
basically im going over EVERYTHING on the bike. replacing any rusted bolts/nuts or the ones that are ready to go .. changing the fork fluid, adjusting the throttle bodies, pulling out the wheel bearings (inspect/grease) , brake/clutch bleed, oil+oil filter, fuel filter, ect ect ect ect....
i posted these pics just so you guys see them and maybe tell me the condition of the engine or how its operating .. so i know what do fix...
Would be worthwhile now the heads are off to take a careful look at the threads in the sparkplug holes. Easy job to put a pair of inserts in if they are not perfect.
I go with my instinct when people ask 'is this normal' about a Ducati ;D
Yes!
Last time I looked mine wasn't much different - maybe a little less dark, but mine is a tuned engine.
Very nice of you to care for your bike so well [thumbsup]
was it burning oil? the white crust on the exhaust valve tells me that A there was a liitle oil back there and B the exhaust temp was high enough to burn it into an ashy crust. the high temp may be due to a lean condition.
to keep my spark plug threads in good shape i usually put a little nickle based antiseaze on the spark plug threads.
Quote from: scaramanga on January 30, 2013, 03:30:43 PM
was it burning oil? the white crust on the exhaust valve tells me that A there was a liitle oil back there and B the exhaust temp was high enough to burn it into an ashy crust. the high temp may be due to a lean condition.
to keep my spark plug threads in good shape i usually put a little nickle based antiseaze on the spark plug threads.
I see no signs of excessive heat there...
maybe too high octane gas depending on mileage.
Quote from: ducpainter on January 30, 2013, 03:37:45 PM
I see no signs of excessive heat there...
maybe too high octane gas depending on mileage.
im running 93 Vpower from shell all the time.
Quote from: scaramanga on January 30, 2013, 03:30:43 PM
was it burning oil? the white crust on the exhaust valve tells me that A there was a liitle oil back there and B the exhaust temp was high enough to burn it into an ashy crust. the high temp may be due to a lean condition.
to keep my spark plug threads in good shape i usually put a little nickle based antiseaze on the spark plug threads.
yes its running lean bcoz of my arrow full exhaust... tried to play with the throttle bodies but didn't get it done 100%...
is there a way to balance fuel/air ratios without a power commander?
Quote from: svp88 on January 30, 2013, 03:40:14 PM
im running 93 Vpower from shell all the time.
My belief is you need no more than 87 octane in a stock motor.
I was taught that by an inductee into the Ducati Hall of Fame.
High octane fuels will cause carbon because of their reluctance to burn.
Believe it or not.
man that's a lot of work to do the valves.
unless "do the valves" means big ones, cams, high comps, etc.
i say try all the fuels and see what it likes the best. but i generally start with the lowest, cause i'm a tight arse. it's a 750, so you could probably run it on kero.
Quote from: ducpainter on January 30, 2013, 03:44:42 PM
My belief is you need no more than 87 octane in a stock motor.
I was taught that by an inductee into the Ducati Hall of Fame.
High octane fuels will cause carbon because of their reluctance to burn.
Believe it or not.
I agree. I was told that 87 is for every vehicle. Higher octane is for higher comp or if your motor is pinging. My guess is that gas companies like to have the myths about higher octane gas float around so they can make more dough. Ahh memper...there's always a conspiracy isn't there...
Quote from: ducpainter on January 30, 2013, 03:44:42 PM
My belief is you need no more than 87 octane in a stock motor.
I was taught that by an inductee into the Ducati Hall of Fame.
High octane fuels will cause carbon because of their reluctance to burn.
Believe it or not
Ok I'll start putting 87 and see how it goes .. how abt on my 12 1100evo? High or low octane fuel ??
Quote from: brad black on January 30, 2013, 04:25:06 PM
man that's a lot of work to do the valves.
unless "do the valves" means big ones, cams, high comps, etc.
i say try all the fuels and see what it likes the best. but i generally start with the lowest, cause i'm a tight arse. it's a 750, so you could probably run it on kero.
What I'm doing is pulling everything out , clean everything from all that burnt gasoline that sticked there .. measure the valves , adjust the clearances on the Shims , test if the valves are closing properly.. replace all the o rings , valve gaskets, and the nuts that lock the head in place, measure the gap on the spark plugs , then sync the throttle bodies etc ... See with my budget the only way to afford owning ducatis is by doing everything myself ... So far that has gone pretty well ... Thx to common sense and all the helpful people in this forum ..
Quote from: svp88 on January 30, 2013, 05:57:08 PM
Ok I'll start putting 87 and see how it goes .. how abt on my 12 1100evo? High or low octane fuel ??
I'd try 87...if it pings go to 89...and if necessary go up until it stops pinging. As long as you know how to identify pinging when you hear it.
The evo has higher compression than your older bike.
Quote from: ducpainter on January 30, 2013, 06:10:00 PM
I'd try 87...if it pings go to 89...and if necessary go up until it stops pinging. As long as you know how to identify pinging when you hear it.
The evo has higher compression than your older bike.
And how do we identify pinging ? :-[
You would hear pinging (more like a tick) inside your motor, because the fuel is detonating before the sparkplug fires. it kinda sounds like a tick during idle and you get really unsmooth response from the motor the higher rpms you go (since theres less tiem for burning the fuel). if you dont hear a tick during idle, it might only occur at higher rpms.
I run 89 on my EVO1100. Ive also ran 87, it doesnt seem as smooth, but i havent really put that many miles on my new motor to say absolutely. And as DP said, the 1100 single spark evo is a bit higher compression.
the DS1000 motor runs 10:1
the SS1100 motor runs 11.3:1
the 1098 motor runs 12.5:1
often there may be no performance improvement with higher octane fuel, but you may get better fuel economy for instance. or it may be smoother.
Quote from: svp88 on January 30, 2013, 06:19:40 PM
And how do we identify pinging ? :-[
The easiest way is to grab a handful of throttle in a high gear going up a hill.
You'll hear what sounds like marbles in the motor.
What Brad says about fuel economy and smoothness is very valid and would be good reasons to use higher octane fuel.
I just don't believe in throwing octane at a motor for no reason, and really don't think you need 93 under any circumstance.
your evo with 11.3/1 comp ratio needs high octane fuel. listening for pinging under load is a good way to tell if your fuel's octane rating is high enough but the last thing you want is to be stuck driving up hill on a hot day and listening to your gorgeous bike complain. low octane + high compression+lean condition=pre-ignition. pre-ignition=pitted piston tops, very worst case....melt down.
evo=93 (buy it from a busy gas station, you don't want stale gas)
dark= don't matter
are you using good quality oil and the proper weight? what do the plugs look like?
btw, don't panic about any of this
That doesnt make sense.
If 87 is good for 10:1
and 93 is required for 11.3:1
then the 1098 should use the equivalent of 98 octane. which doesnt exist.
1098 will is noticeably smoother on 93, 87 blows chunks. 89 is meh.
You should use what prevents pinging and gives you the best fuel economy and optimal smoothness. If 89 fits the bill then there is no need for 93.
Quote from: He Man on January 31, 2013, 07:58:35 PM
That mathematically doesnt make sense.
If 87 is good for 10:1
and 93 is required for 11.3:1
then the 1098 should use the equivalent of 98 octane. which doesnt exist.
1098 will is noticeably smoother on 93, 87 blows chunks. 89 is meh.
You should use what prevents pinging and gives you the best fuel economy and optimal smoothness. If 89 fits the bill then there is no need for 93.
You can't compare compression ratios between 2-valve and 4-valve engines.
The combustion chambers are radically different.
You're right,Just looked it up. Compression ratio is just part of the story. The design of the combustion chamber and the when the valves open up plays a bigger role.
So throw that out the window, octane is still the resistance to knocking. You should run what makes your motor run smooth and has the best MPG and not by a blanket statement of 11.3 needs 93.
Quote from: scaramanga on January 31, 2013, 01:11:14 PM
are you using good quality oil and the proper weight? what do the plugs look like?
btw, don't panic about any of this
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/64199_10152493317375113_1518717423_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/295085_10152493317935113_1710424699_n.jpg)
Using MOTUL 7100 10W40 every 2000miles .
the farthest to the left is the one from the horizontal cylinder (the pics that i posted before) i dont like the way it looks . looks like there is oil there...
the cylinder is fine (clean) no signs of bad piston-rings. one of the o-rings that are between the cylinder and the valves was smashed (the smallest o-ring) im going to replace all of them.
also the same cylinder backfires from the intake when i flick the throttle fast. it went away last season from adjusting the throttle bodies...
QuoteYou're right,Just looked it up. Compression ratio is just part of the story. The design of the combustion chamber and the when the valves open up plays a bigger role.
So throw that out the window, octane is still the resistance to knocking. You should run what makes your motor run smooth and has the best MPG and not by a blanket statement of 11.3 needs 93.
i thought he was just looking for some advice and not a course on combustion swirl,valve angles and spark advance not to mention the other 50 things that affect pre-ignition.
I never meant for it to be a blanket statement only that HIS bike with a high comp ratio and being in a lean condition would be better served with a higher octane fuel. there was no bad advice given, just trying to help.
your plugs will give everyone alot of info, see if you can get some better shots like your previous photos which btw where very good.
this is a piston from an old chevy race engine of mine. the pitting around the bottom edge was caused by detonation.
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u662/scaramanga3/IMG_4823_zpsf1aba309.jpg)