Hey all,
New monster owner here that needs some advice. Here is my introduction/modification thread if you are interested: http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=60498.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=60498.0) My bike is a 2001 M600 with 900 original miles and it has not been started up in 5 years. The previous owner supposedly added stabil to gas the last time it ran 5 years ago, however it only ran for a few minutes at time.
Here is what I have done so far:
-New cam belts
-Fresh oil change
-New spark plugs
-Old battery on a charger
-New fuel pump
-Gas tank is currently disconnected (recently brazed and about to do POR treatment)
-Gravity system hooked up to tank for starting up
-Sprayed small amount of Marvel Mystery Oil inside of cylinder. I am planning on turning pistons manually via rotating the rear wheel.
That said, I have a few questions about starting it up for the first time:
-If my battery dies, can I hook up jumper cables from my car to the bike? I am assuming that the car must be off and bike battery disconnected?
-I heard it's a good idea to let the bike turn over without the spark plugs in to get the oil pump going.
-I heard it's not a good idea to use starter fluid. I was thinking about removing the air filter and dropping a few drops of gas into the intake.
-Should I add some stabil to the fuel I use for the initial startup? Any benefit to this?
-Should I consider spraying carb cleaner into the intake before and during the startup? I heard some carb cleaner is really bad for the diaphragms. Any product recommendations?
-I am hoping to not have to remove the carbs and clean. Are the carb bowls easily accessible for inspection while still on the bike?
Any other advice for me? Thank you so much for any input. I am really looking forward to getting this thing running.
Joshua
Do not use starter fluid.
Cranking the engine without starting is a good idea. Actually starting without priming will be good enough.
Not too much Marvil Mystery Oil, I probably wouldn't bother.
Do not run the car. Do not disconnect the car battery. Once started the bike should run on it's own. I would be surprised if you don't need a new battery.
Stable is for storage. No benefit for initial start up. Don't use carb cleaner.
Why not go through the carbs before start up.
How about brake and clutch fluid? Tires?
Quote from: howie on February 14, 2013, 02:38:15 PM
Do not use starter fluid.
Cranking the engine without starting is a good idea. Actually starting without priming will be good enough.
Not too much Marvil Mystery Oil, I probably wouldn't bother.
Do not run the car. Do not disconnect the car battery. Once started the bike should run on it's own. I would be surprised if you don't need a new battery.
Stable is for storage. No benefit for initial start up. Don't use carb cleaner.
Why not go through the carbs before start up.
How about brake and clutch fluid? Tires?
Thanks for the feedback.
I am also assuming I will need a new battery, I just wanted to see if I could get it started before buying a battery. Ok, so I will leave the battery hooked up to the car. Do you need to unhook the bike battery? Thought I read that somewhere.
Ideally I would go through the carbs, but I know nothing about carbs and am intimidated to take them apart. I was really hoping it could get it running by only spraying some carb cleaner in there. Maybe wishful thinking?
Both brake and clutch reservoirs are empty. I plan to fill and bleed at a later time. I will also be getting new tires at a later time. I have no intentions of taking this bike on the street until I get those items resolved. Just want to get this thing running first.
Joshua
Doh! I meant no need to disconnect the bike battery.
Spraying carb cleaner while starting won't do much and will make starting more difficult. If the bike starts and runs well, great! If not, try priming, not too much though.
Be gentle with carb cleaner. It hurts rubber, plastics, and paint. If you have the time and the place, take the carbs off and dunk them in pine-sol. Look in Advrider for the pine-sol thread. Works amazingly well and reduces the possibility of damage.
Quote from: battlecry on February 15, 2013, 05:36:06 AM
Be gentle with carb cleaner. It hurts rubber, plastics, and paint. If you have the time and the place, take the carbs off and dunk them in pine-sol. Look in Advrider for the pine-sol thread. Works amazingly well and reduces the possibility of damage.
I saw a thread about doing that. Would I need to disassemble the carbs to do the dunk? Or can I just pull the carbs from the bike and then reinstall?
Just take off the bowl.
I would see how the bike runs first. If the bike was properly stored fresh fuel may be all you need.
Quote from: howie on February 15, 2013, 02:07:25 PM
I would see how the bike runs first. If the bike was properly stored fresh fuel may be all you need.
That is my thought as well. Going to try starting it up it first and if all is well I won't have to dive into the carbs.
If not, I may have to give the pine sol a try. Here is the thread I found: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=560117 (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=560117)
Does anyone have a DIY for pulling off the carbs and removing the bowls for the pine sol dunking process?
Update:
I was able to get the bike to atleast fire up. Here are a few notes on the steps I took:
-squirted some marvel mystery oil into the spark plug holes and slowly worked the cylinders up and down
-turned the bike over for a few minutes without spark plugs wired up
-made a temp gas tank (out of a tranny fluid bottle) and elevated it higher than the carbs
-added small amount of seafoam to gas
I could get it to idle for 30 seconds a time by manually dripping fuel into intake, but it would starve itself if I stopped. After doing this 5 or 6 times I was able to start rolling the throttle. The interesting thing is that once I could roll the throttle on I no longer needed to manually drop fuel into the intake.
It seems to stay on as long as I had the throttle rolled on. However once I let go of the throttle it seems to stall out. Is adding throttle like an extreme version of a choke?
I am planning to try again today. I am wondering if I will need to do this for a few days until I can get the gas flowing better. Any thoughts?
And here is a video to demonstrate the last time I was able to get it fired up: http://youtu.be/FIEllKX75kk (http://youtu.be/FIEllKX75kk)
Joshua
Sounds to me like the pilot jets are dirty/clogged.
The addition of throttle moves the carburetor to the needle circuit.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 24, 2013, 08:19:07 AM
Sounds to me like the pilot jets are dirty/clogged.
The addition of throttle moves the carburetor to the needle circuit.
That is what I was afraid of. I really don't want to take the carbs off. For someone that knows nothing about carbs, what would I be getting myself into?
I am hoping that the seafoam additive does something to help. For now I am planning on trying to get it started for a few days and see if anything improves.
No time like the present to learn. ;)
You don't have to take them off to remove and clean the pilot jets.
Remove the bowls...which isn't easy because of the cheap phillips screws, and remove the pilot jets and clean them.
If the jets are completely clogged it will be some time before the seafoam will clear them, if it ever does.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 24, 2013, 08:53:43 AM
No time like the present to learn. ;)
You don't have to take them off to remove and clean the pilot jets.
Remove the bowls...which isn't easy because of the cheap phillips screws, and remove the pilot jets and clean them.
If the jets are completely clogged it will be some time before the seafoam will clear them, if it ever does.
Interesting. I didn't know that I could clean them without removing the carbs. I am assuming its a lot easier to clean the pilot jets with the carbs removed?
You can see what you're doing with the carbs removed.
It's a lot more time/work to remove them.
You know, carburetor is Latin for "don't make the beast with two backs with this!"
In case anyone is following along...
Tried firing it up again Sunday evening. Same results as before. Motor won't idle unless I drip fuel into the intake. Bike runs fine if I give it throttle. Occasional backfire through the right side intake. The backfiring only happens if the bike stalls while trying to rev the engine with throttle.
Tried again this afternoon. Results slightly different. Motor idles with fuel manually dripped through the intake. Now it doesn't want to rev evenly when throttle is applied. Motor revs up and down with consistent throttle and then eventually stalls. Weird! Wondering if the other jets are starting to clog or if something else is going on.
I am slowly coming to the conclusion that I will need to pull the carbs to clean them :(
Maybe another dumb question... after further inspection of the airbox (thinking about the removal process) I noticed one of the coils on top of the airbox had a plug that was unplugged. Looked like an electrical wire.
It will be a few days before I can try starting up the bike again, so I was wondering if that could have contributed to the lack of idle consistency?
Quote from: joshuajcrouch on March 27, 2013, 03:45:16 PM
Maybe another dumb question... after further inspection of the airbox (thinking about the removal process) I noticed one of the coils on top of the airbox had a plug that was unplugged. Looked like an electrical wire.
It will be a few days before I can try starting up the bike again, so I was wondering if that could have contributed to the lack of idle consistency?
It was probably running on one cylinder.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 27, 2013, 04:23:16 PM
It was probably running on one cylinder.
I thought one cylinder felt warmer than the other. Would that contribute to any of the symptoms I was experiencing?
Quote from: joshuajcrouch on March 27, 2013, 04:58:31 PM
I thought one cylinder felt warmer than the other. Would that contribute to any of the symptoms I was experiencing?
Ya think? ;D
Quote from: ducpainter on March 27, 2013, 08:10:43 PM
Ya think? ;D
Ok so maybe that was a dumb question. Just grasping at straws here...
Another update since I couldn't wait any longer. I plugged the coil back in and decided to increase the idle speed to see if that would help improve things. Sadly I am still running on one cylinder. The horizontal was pretty warm/hot to the touch, the vertical was dead cold. I pulled the spark plug from the vertical cylinder and it was dry. I am wondering if the vertical cylinder is even getting fuel at all. Maybe that is why it only runs if manually drip fuel into the intake.
Could this be due to a plugged pilot jet? What else should I trouble shoot to figure out why the vertical cylinder isn't firing?
Thanks everyone for your patience with me :)
After some further thought, I think the vertical cylinder was firing when I first starting trying to fire up the bike a few days ago. The only reason that I think that is because it seems like the vertical cylinder was a lot warmer to the touch last time. Maybe this is why the bike won't let me rev into the higher RPMs anymore.
Could one of my floats be stuck open? Would one of the bowls be empty if I tried removing one of the drain screws?
You could open the drain and see what comes out, but if nothing does, you won't know whether there's no fuel or it's just the drain is blocked from 5 years of accumulated crud. The chances of the carbs not being all crapped up is really pretty slim, you might as well bite the bullet, take them off and clean them. Then you'll know they're OK and can move on to the next problem.
Quote from: joshuajcrouch on March 27, 2013, 10:00:06 PM
Ok so maybe that was a dumb question. Just grasping at straws here...
Another update since I couldn't wait any longer. I plugged the coil back in and decided to increase the idle speed to see if that would help improve things. Sadly I am still running on one cylinder. The horizontal was pretty warm/hot to the touch, the vertical was dead cold. I pulled the spark plug from the vertical cylinder and it was dry. I am wondering if the vertical cylinder is even getting fuel at all. Maybe that is why it only runs if manually drip fuel into the intake.
Could this be due to a plugged pilot jet? What else should I trouble shoot to figure out why the vertical cylinder isn't firing?
Thanks everyone for your patience with me :)
Sorry for being a wiseass...sometimes I just can't help myself.
If the cylinder was getting fuel and it wasn't firing the plug it would be soaking wet.
I'm going to agree with Ddan that it's time to clean the carbs.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 28, 2013, 06:26:51 AM
Sorry for being a wiseass...sometimes I just can't help myself.
If the cylinder was getting fuel and it wasn't firing the plug it would be soaking wet.
I'm going to agree with Ddan that it's time to clean the carbs.
+1
From personal experience you'll just be chasing your tail until you have a professional do it right (if you can't do it yourself). $150 and a new pair of spark plugs and a new idle jet later, the M900 is running like a champ again.
(I put it up last fall when I went on a three month tour and when I got back it was getting 31mpg vs it's usual 42-44)
Quote from: dlearl476 on March 28, 2013, 09:27:47 AM
+1
From personal experience you'll just be chasing your tail until you have a professional do it right (if you can't do it yourself). $150 and a new pair of spark plugs and a new idle jet later, the M900 is running like a champ again.
(I put it up last fall when I went on a three month tour and when I got back it was getting 31mpg vs it's usual 42-44)
Thanks for the feedback. I am going to work on removing the carbs next. I will atleast crack them open myself to see what I am getting into. I do have a manual so I think I can get through it myself. Worst case scenario I can always call on you guys if I get stuck :)
Out of curiosity, did you pay $150 to have someone else service your carbs? If so, who did that work for you?
Joshua
Quote from: joshuajcrouch on March 28, 2013, 12:49:12 PMOut of curiosity, did you pay $150 to have someone else service your carbs? If so, who did that work for you?
Joshua
Among other things yes. Last year I moved from 4500 ft to sea level and the FCRs developed some idle mixture/jet issues. At the time I was uncertain if I was going keep the bike here so I just adjusted the idle mixture. After leaving it in storage most of the fall, and deciding to keep it here, I took it in for a little more extensive work which involved cleaning the carbs, changing idle jets, (? ) changing the spark plugs and re-dynoing to set CO levels because my mpg had dropped do radically.
On my way home from the shop I got 39 mpg, which is good considering the crap gas they make us run in the winter.
The bill for all the work was $150. ECS in Middletown did the (great,as usual) work.
carbs are easy
strip them down
best bet would be take them to a carb guy that can stick them in the ultrasonic cleaner
which wont cost a lot and you will know they will be clean in and out
i pulled the carbs apart in my M600 put in new needle jet holders, stage 2 jet kit, reset float height and replaced the bits inside with a kit. Also replaced vacuum tap with manual tap and replaced fuel pump at the same time
never done this before, so armed with a haynes manual and
http://www.ducatisuite.com/jetkit.html. (http://www.ducatisuite.com/jetkit.html.)
Biggest pain is what you have to remove to get to the carbs but all steps are straight forward and well explained in the above.
Decided to road test my carb rebuild by going on a 600 k trip as it felt great around town.
As soon as I got out of town I would try to open throttle at about 5500 rpm and nothing.
On return checked plugs they looked nicely tan.
thought I must have done something wrong.
Took the little horn things off the airbox and it is completely cured.
Sure it is only a 600 but roll throttle on from 5500 rpm and it just revs away.
I say give it a go
Quote from: J5 on March 29, 2013, 01:17:39 AMcarbs are easy
True, but sometimes the time/space/money continuum just works out to where it's better to have someone else deal with it.
Plus, a big advantage to using the shop I used is that they use a dyno/CO sniffer whereas the only method I have available to me is the old "full throttle/kill switch/pull the plugs by the side if the road" bit. :D
Quote from: dlearl476 on March 29, 2013, 07:28:17 AM
True, but sometimes the time/space/money continuum just works out to where it's better to have someone else deal with it.
Plus, a big advantage to using the shop I used is that they use a dyno/CO sniffer whereas the only method I have available to me is the old "full throttle/kill switch/pull the plugs by the side if the road" bit. :D
It took me most of my adult life to learn that ;D
Quote from: howie on March 29, 2013, 08:28:40 PM
It took me most of my adult life to learn that ;D
My dad taught me that a hundred years ago...
cheap is expensive and expensive is cheap.
Damn I miss him.
Just hit a wall... Ready to pull the carb off but cannot get the throttle cables off. I thought I would remove the cable bracket that attaches to the carb to give me some slack. The first screw came off very easily (the one missing in the picture below), and the second one stripped!
Any advice for getting off the stripped screw? Is there an easier way to remove the throttle cable. Help...
...and a picture
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk215/joshuajcrouch/100_8073_zps759e515c.jpg)
Never mind... I go the carbs off. I loosened the nuts that held the throttle cables to the throttle bracket and was able to get them off. Really not looking forward to putting those throttle cables back on. Yikes.
I decided to take my carbs to a local shop to have them serviced. This bike has been a big project and I think its important to pick your battles.
Thanks for all your input. I will post a video in a few weeks when I get Humpty put back together.
Joshua
Great news... she runs!
I ended up taking off the carbs to have a professional do all the work. There is a place in town called Cycle Parts that seems to have a great reputation. There is a guy that works there that was a Ducati tech for 8 years. He cleaned out the carbs and checked everything out. His only recommendation was new needles. $150 and 4 days later I got the carbs back.
I put everything back together today and it seems to run fine. My only concern is that there seems to be a lot of fuel dripping out of the overflow. It goes away when I give it throttle but as as soon as I let it idle it seems to drip again. I tried moving my temp fuel tank to be lower than my fuel pump but it didn't seem to make much of a difference.
Here is a video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsrOS4_3X_A (//http://) (//http://) (//http://)
Is this normal?
Stuck float?
Quote from: betarace on April 10, 2013, 10:13:15 PM
Stuck float?
Dang I hope not. I just had these stupid carbs serviced and really don't want to have to tear it apart again.
Quote from: betarace on April 10, 2013, 10:13:15 PM
Stuck float?
Or float height adjusted wrong, either way the shop who did the work should take care of it for you.
A trick we use with old dellorto's on Laverdas & guzzis is to take the carbs off, which means removing the throttle slide and unbolting the carb from the manifold.
then remove the float bowl and drop the carbs in a 5 gallon drum which is half full of methylbenzine.
leave it overnight, then remove the carbs, blow out with compressed air, and inspect.
any shellac deposits remaining, the carbs come apart, and get soaked for another 24hrs, then they get a new carb kit put in them on reassembly.
nine times out of ten the carb only needs a soaking overnight.
You have to be careful with methylbenzine though, if you leave it too long the rubber components can swell, and if you disturb them then you will damage the orings etc.
the best thing is to be mindful of the needle & seat, and the pilot jets. give them a good blow with compressed air and if they are clean, you should be OK.
Unleaded fuel kills diaphragms so chances are they will be hard as hell and could even be perforated. If you soak them in methyl, the elasticity comes back. however, I always recommend rebuilding carbs if you are suspect about the state of them.
If they haven't been kitted or serviced since new, then your best bet is to put a kit in them for peace of mind.
mthyl has a RON of approx 160, so it is not harmful to your engine, but it will foul plugs if you run it straight, and it does increase combustion temps a fair bit.
I just called Cycle Parts. They said that they checked the float heights so they don't think that is the issue.
They want me to try tapping the outside of the bowl with a screw driver to see if it helps. They also said I could try swapping the drain screws in case they are not sealing properly. Hmmm...
I will give both these ideas a try tonight and see if anything changes.
Quote from: joshuajcrouch on April 11, 2013, 12:10:29 PM
I just called Cycle Parts. They said that they checked the float heights so they don't think that is the issue.
They want me to try tapping the outside of the bowl with a screw driver to see if it helps. They also said I could try swapping the drain screws in case they are not sealing properly. Hmmm...
SORRY, but I read this as " My work is never wrong or a problem, so it much be something not oriented with what I did. Go and try this and potentially make the beast with two backs things up so I can charge you again some more"...
maybe I am off base here with this...
Quote from: zooom on April 11, 2013, 12:22:29 PM
SORRY, but I read this as " My work is never wrong or a problem, so it much be something not oriented with what I did. Go and try this and potentially make the beast with two backs things up so I can charge you again some more"...
maybe I am off base here with this...
I hope that this isn't their tactic. I really cannot see how they can position themselves to charge me more for anything. If these two ideas they have don't work, you better bet they are going to take another look at the carbs.
He mentioned that the varnish at the bottom of the bowls causes some light pitting, and didn't know if that could effect the vacuum. That is why he wants me to try swapping the drain screws. Seems a little odd to me.
Quote from: joshuajcrouch on April 10, 2013, 09:36:34 PM
I ended up taking off the carbs to have a professional do all the work. There is a place in town called Cycle Parts that seems to have a great reputation. There is a guy that works there that was a Ducati tech for 8 years. He cleaned out the carbs and checked everything out. His only recommendation was new needles. $150 and 4 days later I got the carbs back.
if he in fact did the highlighted and underlined portion....and he set and balanced everything, then the supposed vaccuum pitting problem would have revealed itself at that time would it not?....I am not a carb expert...I am just asking in the basis of some practical line of thinking
What is vacuum pitting?
Quote from: howie on April 11, 2013, 02:04:20 PM
What is vacuum pitting?
The tech was concerned that the pitting at the bottom of the bowls could have compromised the drain screw's ability to maintain vacuum. Not sure how he would test for that, or how I would verify that on my end.
Once again, I am just repeating what the tech told me. There is a reason I took my carbs to someone else to deal with :)
Quote from: howie on April 11, 2013, 02:04:20 PM
What is vacuum pitting?
Something zooom made up. ;D
Quote from: ducpainter on April 11, 2013, 04:10:13 PM
Something zooom made up. ;D
DURNED TOOOTIN......LOL
thanks for the credit, even if it wasn't me!
Quote from: joshuajcrouch on April 11, 2013, 12:35:16 PM
I hope that this isn't their tactic. I really cannot see how they can position themselves to charge me more for anything. If these two ideas they have don't work, you better bet they are going to take another look at the carbs.
He mentioned that the varnish at the bottom of the bowls causes some light pitting, and didn't know if that could effect the vacuum. That is why he wants me to try swapping the drain screws. Seems a little odd to me.
Quote from: zooom on April 11, 2013, 01:59:37 PM
if he in fact did the highlighted and underlined portion....and he set and balanced everything, then the supposed vaccuum pitting problem would have revealed itself at that time would it not?....I am not a carb expert...I am just asking in the basis of some practical line of thinking
Quote from: zooom on April 11, 2013, 04:11:47 PM
DURNED TOOOTIN......LOL
thanks for the credit, even if it wasn't me!
was too you...
you said vacuum but meant varnish. :-*
ooh...I guess I did mess that up...that's what I get for working at the same time as posting...LOL
Quote from: ducpainter on April 11, 2013, 04:10:13 PM
Something zooom made up. ;D
;D
I was more curious how pitting on the bottom of the float bowl affects vacuum ???
I am more curious as to why the tech guy thinks there should be a vacuum in the float bowl [coffee]
Quote from: JoeB on April 11, 2013, 06:38:58 PM
I am more curious as to why the tech guy thinks there should be a vacuum in the float bowl [coffee]
...because this was the first carburated bike he's ever worked on? :P
Quote from: ducpainter on April 11, 2013, 06:46:17 PM
...because this was the first carburated bike he's ever worked on? :P
Thank you guys for all the support :) I will let you know how the next conversation goes with this Tech...
I am wondering now if the Tech meant that the bowl drain screw wasn't seating properly. After I pulled the drain screws I noticed one is slightly shorter than the other. Now I am curious to know how the overflow works? Does it share the same line as the drain screw?
I drained the bowls and swapped the screws around. Still drips out of only one side of the overflow. Swapped the screws back around and it still only drips out of the same side. If the issue was the screws, wouldn't the overflow change to the other side when I switch the screws?
I also noticed that once I cut off fuel to the pump and let the bike run off the fuel in the floats the dripping stops. Once I hooked my fuel source back up to the fuel pump the dripping starts again.
I also tried tapping the carb bowls and still NOTHING. Looks like I have to tear this thing apart again. I am getting really tired and need a breakthrough! I am sure you guys are tired of me posting on here as well...
Quote from: joshuajcrouch on April 11, 2013, 10:24:25 PM
I am wondering now if the Tech meant that the bowl drain screw wasn't seating properly. After I pulled the drain screws I noticed one is slightly shorter than the other. Now I am curious to know how the overflow works? Does it share the same line as the drain screw?
I drained the bowls and swapped the screws around. Still drips out of only one side of the overflow. Swapped the screws back around and it still only drips out of the same side. If the issue was the screws, wouldn't the overflow change to the other side when I switch the screws?
I also noticed that once I cut off fuel to the pump and let the bike run off the fuel in the floats the dripping stops. Once I hooked my fuel source back up to the fuel pump the dripping starts again.
I also tried tapping the carb bowls and still NOTHING. Looks like I have to tear this thing apart again. I am getting really tired and need a breakthrough! I am sure you guys are tired of me posting on here as well...
Could be more than a few things there…
1. fuel pressure too high, solenoid / tap not shutting off properly
2. needle / seat damaged not sealing properly - overfills and leaks
3. float level set way too high - overfills and leaks
4. your carbs need a proper rebuild by someone who knows what the f*k they are doing
EDIT: Back in the days of gravity fed carbs, on older bevels and BMW's Lavs etc, you had to turn the fuel tap off or this would happen. instant flooding. You only did it once, because filling a cylinder full of fuel and having to pull a plug and kickstart it out all over the engine taught you to remember to turn that useless f*ker of a fuel tap OFF.
boy does that bring back some memories... [wine]
Did I miss the video??? That hose is from the float bowl drain. Screw is not sealing.
Quote from: howie on April 12, 2013, 01:48:04 AM
Did I miss the video??? That hose is from the float bowl drain. Screw is not sealing.
Haha this is exactly why I posted the video. Did no one watch it? Yes the drips are coming from the same line as the float bowl drain. Doesn't the drain share the same line as the overflow?
What still doesn't make sense is that when I cut off my fuel supply to the pump, and let the bike run off the fuel in the bowls, the dripping stops. I was really convinced this had more to do with float levels.
maybe some FCRs will solve the problem?
Quote from: howie on April 12, 2013, 01:48:04 AM
Did I miss the video??? That hose is from the float bowl drain. Screw is not sealing.
I think we both did.
Quote from: RAT900 on April 12, 2013, 09:27:59 AM
maybe some FCRs will solve the problem?
Haha I wish. Unfortunately I am on a LIMITED budget. I gotta make these stock carbs work.
Quote from: JoeB on April 12, 2013, 10:01:11 AM
I think we both did.
So is that the consensus then? Somehow the drain screw isn't sealing correctly? Its only dripping out of one side despite if I move the drain screws from one side to the other. It also only drips if I have a fuel source hooked up to the fuel pump (even with the bowls full). Wouldn't it just drip all the time then?
That makes me think that maybe the bowl cover is compromised. The Tech mentioned pitting at the bottom of the float bowl. Does anyone have any extra bowl covers that they want to sell me?
So I called up the Tech this morning and explained to him that the dripping stops when I disconnect the fuel source from the pump and let the bike run off the fuel in the bowls, and he now thinks that its the float height that is the issue.
This is so confusing.
Either way he agreed to look at the carbs again for me. So looks like I will be tearing things apart again on Saturday. Atleast now I am familiar with the bike and can do it in half the time it took me the first time.
Quote from: joshuajcrouch on April 12, 2013, 12:24:43 PM
This is so confusing.
Either way he agreed to look at the carbs again for me. So looks like I will be tearing things apart again on Saturday. Atleast now I am familiar with the bike and can do it in half the time it took me the first time.
The one benefit of doing work yourself is the learning experience. Looks like you're getting plenty. Glad the tech agreed to re-visit his work. Everything you describe points to either the float height or the needle seat in the offending carb not being right.
Quote from: dlearl476 on April 13, 2013, 05:29:43 PM
The one benefit of doing work yourself is the learning experience. Looks like you're getting plenty. Glad the tech agreed to re-visit his work. Everything you describe points to either the float height or the needle seat in the offending carb not being right.
Yeah you are totally right. I was blown away by how quickly I can remove the carbs now. I was able to pull off the battery, ignition, airbox, and carbs in 45 minutes.
I removed the carbs yesterday and dropped them off this morning with the Tech. Sure enough it was the needle not seating correctly. He figured it out and fixed it without charging me extra.
Next step is to put everything back together again and see how she runs. Thanks for the support everyone!
Good news! She finally runs and NO drips out of the overflow.
I am having some inconsistent / lumpy idle symptoms during the cold start, but I am assuming that can be resolved once I get around to doing some carb tuning. I am guessing some things to check would be synchronizing the carbs and maybe fuel mixture ratio?
Also, where would one go to get vacuum nipples for the intake runners? reading up now on how to synch my carbs.
Yes, those two things.
There are many threads on doing those jobs too.
Good work, you have a good baseline. Dont make any judgements about how well it idles and runs down low until the choke is off and its well warmed up to operating temps.
Assess its idle quality after a decent ride and tune from there.
Hey everyone...
So I need to synch my carbs next. Turns out I need the threaded vacuum nipples for the intake runners so I can hook up some vacuum gauges to my bike.
I posted in the "parts wanted" forum here but I am not getting any looks. I also called the local Ducati dealership and it turns out that this part is no longer available from the factory.
Does anyone have any that they could sell me? I would ideally like to get (2) threaded nipples. Also, anyone that removed their emissions system from their bike should have some extra threaded nipples left over from the charcoal canister. Please help!
Joshua
Bonus useless extra parts included
http://www.ebay.com/itm/116-07-Ducati-Monster-620-M620-intake-manifold-boot-/290663912555?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43aceb546b&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/116-07-Ducati-Monster-620-M620-intake-manifold-boot-/290663912555?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43aceb546b&vxp=mtr)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUCATI-MONSTER-S2R-800-ENGINE-INTAKE-BOOTS-BOOT-SENSOR-/270691962003?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f067f8c93&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUCATI-MONSTER-S2R-800-ENGINE-INTAKE-BOOTS-BOOT-SENSOR-/270691962003?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f067f8c93&vxp=mtr)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUCATI-EFI-Fuel-Intake-manifolds-from-Monster-ST2-SS900-/360637566284?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53f7ac8d4c&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUCATI-EFI-Fuel-Intake-manifolds-from-Monster-ST2-SS900-/360637566284?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53f7ac8d4c&vxp=mtr)
Quote from: Ddan on April 16, 2013, 02:00:29 PM
Bonus useless extra parts included
http://www.ebay.com/itm/116-07-Ducati-Monster-620-M620-intake-manifold-boot-/290663912555?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43aceb546b&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/116-07-Ducati-Monster-620-M620-intake-manifold-boot-/290663912555?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43aceb546b&vxp=mtr)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUCATI-MONSTER-S2R-800-ENGINE-INTAKE-BOOTS-BOOT-SENSOR-/270691962003?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f067f8c93&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUCATI-MONSTER-S2R-800-ENGINE-INTAKE-BOOTS-BOOT-SENSOR-/270691962003?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f067f8c93&vxp=mtr)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUCATI-EFI-Fuel-Intake-manifolds-from-Monster-ST2-SS900-/360637566284?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53f7ac8d4c&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUCATI-EFI-Fuel-Intake-manifolds-from-Monster-ST2-SS900-/360637566284?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53f7ac8d4c&vxp=mtr)
Ahhh... I never considered ebay. Do you think the threaded vacuum nipples for the EFI are the same specs as the carb'd ones?
Thanks for the recommendation.
[urlhttps://store.bevelheaven.com/workshop-tools/intake-manifold-adapter-w/cap-5mm-brass/][/url]
[urlhttp://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0218/][/url]
Quote from: garryc on April 16, 2013, 05:08:21 PM
[urlhttps://store.bevelheaven.com/workshop-tools/intake-manifold-adapter-w/cap-5mm-brass/][/url]
[urlhttp://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0218/][/url]
Yes! Thanks man you rock!
Just placed an order with Motion Pro for some threaded nipples and a manual petcock. Wow that sounds dirty.
OK I really wish I could let this thread die... but I keep need your valuable input! I have been working on tuning my carbs and I think my bike is running to lean because:
- Won't idle without stalling out when cold
- Once warmed up it will idle but stutters when "blip"ing the throttle
- Fuel/air mixture screw set at 3 rotations out
I played with the fuel/air mixture screws to see how the motor responded to running more rich. The bike seems to be the most happy at 6 rotations out.
The Ducati Tech said that when I brought the carbs in the first time to get serviced, the mixture screws were set at 5 rotations out. Most likely the bike came from the dealership this way since it only has 900 miles on it, and the original owner didn't modify the bike at all.
Is 6 rotations too many? Any harm in running the bike long term this way?
Joshua
There is no harm running it that way, but...
you could use larger pilot jets.
Quote from: ducpainter on April 22, 2013, 08:06:11 AM
There is no harm running it that way, but...
you could use larger pilot jets.
Ok good to know. I am wondering if the bike is running rich enough even at 6 rotations. The bike seems happy, although I can't seem to smell any fuel coming from the exhaust.
Using the stock air box, with chopped/cored OEM exhaust.
Quote from: joshuajcrouch on April 22, 2013, 08:12:44 AM
Ok good to know. I am wondering if the bike is running rich enough even at 6 rotations. The bike seems happy, although I can't seem to smell any fuel coming from the exhaust.
Using the stock air box, with chopped/cored OEM exhaust.
If the airbox is stock, cored cans shouldn't affect things. If more air can't get in then the mixture doesn't change.
Monsters were always lean with stock jetting.
Quote from: ducpainter on April 22, 2013, 08:17:16 AM
If the airbox is stock, cored cans shouldn't affect things. If more air can't get in then the mixture doesn't change.
Monsters were always lean with stock jetting.
Once again, very helpful information. Thank you Nate!
I may call the Tech and see how much he would charge me for larger pilot jets and installation. If its too much $ I may just leave it for now.