Ducati Monster Forum

many European and UK Ducati forums and clubs  are being told by Ducati that they are no longer affiliated and must comply by Ducati corporate rules or close ,, of course its not stricly legal all the clubs have to do is declare independance and stop using any Ducati trademarks  and they can carry on ,,, it is causing a lot of ill feeling to Ducati and Audi and is not really enforcable  in law .

stupid corpoarte types killing the golden goosw ......

what are the corporate rules?

Who cares. The DOC program is a friggin' mess (I'm the ex-president of the Seattle DOC). They already don't let you use any Ducati trademarks at all, except for the Desmo Owners Club logo. You can't even use a likeness of any of the bikes, or the desmo valve train. Plus, for the last 3-4 years Ducati has been hit or miss on sending out the DOC packets...some years you get them, some years you don't, which the general membership of course doesn't understand. The DOC program is a joke.

WTF? These people are advertising the Ducati brand, helping bring in more customers.

I blame lawyers.  they ruin everything.

I think it actually is antiquated brand managers basing their strategy on the old-school idea that you can micromanage your brand.  Thus, you get to make it mean what you want.  You also get every dollar associated with the brand (theoretically).  But today, with social media, brands can take on a life of their own.

Brands like Ducati, Harley-Davidson, Apple, Lulu Lemon, even Saab (a personal favorite...RIP), have loyal followers that are in fact part of the brand.  If you start to marginalize them, they begin to leave and all that is left is the product.  Not really a problem when you have great products (e.g. Apple, although competition is catching up) but when you don't (e.g. Saab) you have no selling point.

Look at all the car companies trying to create an identity for their badges, many of which try to inject the idea of "passion".  Millions upon millions of marketing dollars spent trying to get what Ducati already has associated with its brand.  Seems stupid for Audi/Duc to marginalize the loyalists who are in fact major propagators of the "passionate" part of the brand.  Even if they make a few dollars selling their own coffee mugs or using the logo to promote their club.

DMF has made my ducati experience infinitely better, and although the implications of the OP do not suggest it would be impacted, the idea that similar enthusiast group become blocked or run by the company or whatever is a fearful image.

 BMW motorcycles have done the same thing. It appears to be the new standard procedure.

As an example, here is the DesmoNorthwest DOC logo that we adopted while I was president. For a while we had a site where you could get mugs/shirts/etc. with the DOC logo on it...until Ducati shut it down due to copyright infringement.  F'ing stupid IMO, and we really thought this logo would comply with their requirements. Of course, if the guy in Italy responsible for these matters ever returned emails we might have known. That's the other problem with the DOC program...ZERO communication.  :P

I guess we should have use the likeness of a Gixxer in our DOC logo!  [roll]

(http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums/images/misc/new_dnw_logo.jpg)

I know of a few DOC clubs that have decided not to renew their affiliation to the DOC program. However I kind of agree with Ducati not allowing the use of name/shapes etc. They have standard advertising industry guidelines (yes, I've read them) and actually are not that strict (no stricter than other corporations). They have a brand and they're protecting it. Funny thing is that they've tried but failed to patent the word Desmo. Even funnier they got into troubles themselves years back with the DOC as it stands for Denominazione Origine Controllata in official italian wines classification and is a TM.

BMW has been at this for a few years now. Harley protects their brand bit at least they license it and make money from it. If only BMW Audi/Ducati would learn from them.

I understand the brand image needs to be the same across all markets, what gets me is the local clubs being bounced and no interest by the motherland.  If they said I had to pay royalty fees to keep the local club is create something else just similar to piss them off.   [evil]

Understanding that Ducati has a brand to protect they also have something very valuable that others have already referenced, social equity in their brand.  I've worked on a few campaigns for big European auto companies that want what Ducati has, passionate owners who operate as brand ambassadors.  Subaru and BMW are great examples of how the corporate brands have allowed the local groups to thrive and flourish with a little corporate oversight.  

If I worked in their corporate communications department, I'd figure out a way to allow local groups to keep their independence but give them some guidelines as how their site must look and feel (i.e.: color pallete, site template, etc).  Find a way to communicate with all the major groups about changes and impact to get avoid speculation/rumors.  If they really wanted to do it right.  Hire a couple of social folks to join, manage and communicate with Ducati enthusiasts.  

But then again I know the communication issues Ducati has currently, so that might be asking too much....

[thumbsup]
Small company, few English speakers. Minimal DNA staff.

Not sure what you've learned from your BMW car club experience. On the bike side, the "corporate image" N*zis have ruled for 20+ years and killed off many mom and pops and alienated many long-time owners.

And you wouldn't even believe what BMW did with the Mini (Not MINI) aftermarket in the U.K. which made it damned difficult for a while to find where the parts and service support had gone for the Rover Mini, even though BMW had no real interest in it. BMW threatened everybody BUT the BMIHT with lawsuits. You couldn't even say the word "mini".

Audi may be following this same misguided path, and IMO, Audi/VW is even less intelligent than the Bavarians.

Watch what they do with signage and dealer names and square footage requirements next...

They are already forcing some dealers to remodel.  (Ducati boutique stores like Indy Ducati)
And the DOC affiliation process it's a real pain in the ass this year.

Ducati Seattle is remodeling as well. Not sure if it's forced or not.

You betcha if Duc Pond is being forced to become Ducati Winchester! All that corporate image BS... http://www.ducpond.com/ (http://www.ducpond.com/)

Ducati can play the elitist card after they win a couple upcoming GP titles in a row. Or if they reissue a supermono

well....for just a moment...I want to inject a potential thought for you...

VW/Audi brand has had corporate run national and international enthusiast clubs...if you look at Fourtitude.com and VWVortex.com, you will see bits and bobs about those on there, and here in the US, you will see their presence represented at events like Waterfest and so forth where they do in fact show up with tons of enthusiasts to celebrate their marque...overseas you will see various "Treffen" events where they do the same...

now, as far as the corprorate refacing...Ducati has always had a level of brand standard for the dealers, but not the manpower to generate and implement and enforce a planogram or style for those dealerships( hell, look at how bare the coverage was for service representation with warranty issues)....if you go to a VW or Audi dealer currently, they all have a similar look or design because it is reinforced from the corporate back end, not only with the brand standards, but also in money for advertising and and other supporting funds....there is a need for unified identification to develop a level of consistancy for a customer that walks into a dealer selling their brand for developing a level of service expectation that is similar for anyone.....the dealers I expect to be hit the worst on this level are the big box dealers that do a lil bit of everything, and not really any of it specifically well...

just something for you to chew on for a moment from the other side of the fence...

I think you will also see more consistent service and support across all the dealerships, and maybe the club system, which is why they are bringing things closer to the core brand.

It's not a bad thing IMO. I'm in Public information field and branding/core standards are a must for consistency for clients across the line.

For example. my local DOC. very independent and their support for non-clique people just isn't there IMO.
If I knew I could move anywhere and get the same level of support and events that the best DOCs get, that would be awesome.
Same for dealer support. Owners shouldn't have that power that they can screw customers over and in the end send people away from Ducati.
Ducati is like Ferrari in many ways, you would never see Ferrari treat a customer like i've was treated for my purchase.

A valid point of view.

However, what worries me is that this has not gone well, historically, with both Harley and BMW. But maybe the corporations consider it acceptable losses.

In both cases I've witnessed a net loss of dealerships, specifically smaller, passionate ones that really represented the brand well, not through their size/look/planagram, but through their honest prioritizing of the customer and knowledgable service.

In the case of Harley they forced these dealers to grow - requiring square footage, in stock accessories (and clothing, and crap), which required larger buildings, more rent/mortgage and additional employees. A good number of dealers couldn't handle the growth - mismanagement, poorly trained employees, loss of customer service, and in a number of cases simply got over their heads with the costs necessary to keep the lights on and doors open. Combined with a downturn in the marketplace lead to closures.

The BMW model was even worse, as they pulled frachises away from longtime established dealers who really served the brand well in order to offer them to CAR dealers in the same location. At least around here (greater Philly area/burbs including across the bridge to NJ) it meant the closing of 3 dealerships - and the automotive dealers that took over those franchises have SINCE DROPPED THEM leaving a huge gap in a major region this area.

With the BMW model the car dealerships simply didn't understand the differences in customers (especially between BMW cars and BMW Motorcycles). It's a different market.

I understand branding, and bringing in new customers through attractive, inviting showrooms. But they need to make sure they don't alienate their existing customer base too much while doing it, and don't cut their own noses off to spite their faces with dealers who won't understand the business.

Well said.  Car market is not motorcycle market.  It's a mistake to apply the same approach.  Sounds like that's what BMW did, Kev M.  I hope Audi/Duc doesn't make the same mistake.

[thumbsup]
My point exactly and Kev could hardly have expressed it better!

Dealers are businesses after all and some of the most passionate simply haven't got either the capital or the market to sustain this "corporate image" BS. I have no objection to reasonable manufacturer requirements for tools, parts and training which are a better investment all around for both parties. BMW really DID screw the pooch with their requirements. An excellent example was the dealer which won BMW the first Superbike championship. It was a large mom and pop machine shop which had a tiny showroom, small service area and HUGE parts department. Would never have even come CLOSE to meeting BMW's sq. ft. requirements, much less face lift and signage.

BTW, sure..., this is my opinion, but an opinion which comes from 40 years of experience in managing four premium Europen car brands and negotiating franchise agreements with all the above.

I'm 30 miles west of a large city with 200,000+ metro population and 300,000+ population in the surrounding suburbs. The nearest BMW dealer is 75 miles north and the Ducati dealer went out 5+ years ago due to signage and capital requirements! Sure..., people are a bit thrifty in this region generally although there's megabucks in that city. It's a bizarre situation. My excellent dealer is a 140 mile ride and it appears that even he is being required to do the name change!!! http://www.ducpond.com/ (http://www.ducpond.com/)

well first thing is they need to work on their website.

Planning to volunteer? ;) It's a corporate template which they'll have to edit with the name change. They DO update the used bikes during the season quite quickly but gave up on the parts side because the DNA prices changed so frequently.

No reason for Donnie to go overboard as they are booked for work up the kazoo and Nathan is one of the best parts managers I've known as guys on CAM will attest. He ships me stuff overnight or direct from Italy but I wish they weren't so damn far away. Only the first half of that ride is entertaining! ;)

Nope, planning on sending my Resume to Ducati

Retiring soon and coming back to the USA? Economy still sucks here post-November elections. Any industry connections?

I've got a good pal here who's scrambling since BMW just sold off Husky. He's got 17 ISDT/ISDE gold medals too and was Eastern Field Sales Mgr. in the '90's for Ducati/Cagiva. Or are you looking for something in Bologna?

Either way, good luck!

yep, i'll be inputing my resume into their job application this week for Bologna.  [thumbsup]

 I was a long time BMW owner here in Portland, Oregon. We had several really decent dealerships that had good wrenches and parts departments, now all are gone save one that services the authority market. Even with the lack of support I would be on a Beemer now if they made something like the R1100S that recently left for my Monster. The insistence on the Corporate über Alles has left me cold.
 BMW will not miss me as a customer, and I suspect that Ducati will not notice my presence, butt I feel that the Ducati "experience" will feed my moto lust and perhaps encourage others to enter the fold. I cannot say as much for BMW. Thank goodness for the little guys that provide a shelter from the Mother Ship!