So I am trying to make a wiring harness and relay that connects to the bike's standard H4. Basically what I need is this:
1) When I turn the ignition to on and light is 'low beam', the wiring harness will draw constant power but the relay will also be powered to only draw 50% power.
2) When I flip to 'high beam', it still draws constant power but the relay is not powered so the draw would be 100%
I've been reading: http://www.mp3car.com/the-faq-emporium/117895-faq-relays-how-they-work-and-how-to-wire-it-up.html (http://www.mp3car.com/the-faq-emporium/117895-faq-relays-how-they-work-and-how-to-wire-it-up.html)
And I'm pretty much baffled at this point. Can someone who understands this impart some knowledge on me?
What do you hope to accomplish by having the headlight draw %50 power? Better Start? The euro bikes do this automatically if i am not mistaken(headlight off when ignition is on but bike is not started). I think the mod is to swap the left hand controls out for a euro unit. Hopefully someone can verify this....
Quote from: JohnEE on March 05, 2013, 09:35:55 AM
What do you hope to accomplish by having the headlight draw %50 power? Better Start? The euro bikes do this automatically if i am not mistaken(headlight off when ignition is on but bike is not started). I think the mod is to swap the left hand controls out for a euro unit. Hopefully someone can verify this....
Actually I'm thinking of using LED lights. They are obnoxiously bright at 100% so I'm hoping with normal lights on it would be 50% draw and when I flip on high then it would disengage the 50% dimmer and go 100%...
I'm no EE, but I think you need a device other than a relay to reduce power to the lights.
DM beat me to it.
Quote from: xsephirot on March 05, 2013, 09:46:41 AMActually I'm thinking of using LED lights. They are obnoxiously bright at 100% so I'm hoping with normal lights on it would be 50% draw and when I flip on high then it would disengage the 50% dimmer and go 100%...
You need a dropping resistor to consume part of the 13.8v from the charging system.
The type of relay you would be more involved than the standard N/O or N/C relay, which is what most automotive type relays are. They either open a circuit or close it, once control voltage is applied. You need a relay that switches from one voltage source (low volt) to another (full system voltage).
Quote from: xsephirot on March 05, 2013, 09:46:41 AM
Actually I'm thinking of using LED lights. They are obnoxiously bright at 100% so I'm hoping with normal lights on it would be 50% draw and when I flip on high then it would disengage the 50% dimmer and go 100%...
One problem right away is that headlight switch probably can't activate the coil of the relay. You'll need a certain voltage and current to be able to flip the "switch" in the relay. You could try adding more resistance with higher resistance power resistors(Most LED kits come with these anyways) to draw more of that current away from the LED to make it less bright.
Quote from: Dry Martini on March 05, 2013, 10:15:11 AM
You need a dropping resistor to consume part of the 13.8v from the charging system.
The type of relay you would be more involved than the standard N/O or N/C relay, which is what most automotive type relays are. They either open a circuit or close it, once control voltage is applied. You need a relay that switches from one voltage source (low volt) to another (full system voltage).
Quote from: JohnEE on March 05, 2013, 10:44:16 AM
One problem right away is that headlight switch probably can't activate the coil of the relay. You'll need a certain voltage and current to be able to flip the "switch" in the relay. You could try adding more resistance with higher resistance power resistors(Most LED kits come with these anyways) to draw more of that current away from the LED to make it less bright.
Thanks for the help guys! After googling alot more I came upon this: http://www.lights.skenedesign.com/IQ_175.shtml (http://www.lights.skenedesign.com/IQ_175.shtml)
This should work almost like a MOSFET regulator right?
Quote from: JohnEE on March 05, 2013, 10:44:16 AM
One problem right away is that headlight switch probably can't activate the coil of the relay.
The headlight switch would have no problem supplying ~12v to energize a relay. This was done all the time on BMW bikes,to drive the headlights directly from the battery.
Quote from: Dry Martini on March 05, 2013, 11:07:42 AM
The headlight switch would have no problem supplying ~12v to energize a relay. This was done all the time on BMW bikes,to drive the headlights directly from the battery.
What would you suggest be the minimum gauge to use? Is 18 enough?
On a side note, if you have too thick of a gauge (say 10 gauge) would naything happen?
Quote from: Dry Martini on March 05, 2013, 11:07:42 AM
The headlight switch would have no problem supplying ~12v to energize a relay. This was done all the time on BMW bikes,to drive the headlights directly from the battery.
Thus the probably in my statement, i didn't know for sure. Knowledge is power!
That's the primary purpose of a relay. To allow a circuit not capable of handling high current, like one with a switch with delicate contacts, to trigger a circuit that has high current draw.
EE here, but after 30 years some things might have changed since I was in school. LEDs do not have much of a high/low brightness variation just from varying the voltage to them. In the past we designed a circuit that varied the duty cycle ie: turned the voltage on and off quickly at different speeds to dim LEDs. They will dim a bit from dropping the voltage but as a diode their state is either on or off - they either have enough voltage to turn on or they don't. Some LEDs come packaged already with a dimmer circuit so maybe your headlight already has this? If so then you need to control the dimmer circuit. Another thing to consider is that it is not just the brightness but how the headlight is aimed when switching from low to high beam. The LED headlights I have seen use different LEDS or combinations of LEDS to create the high and low beams.
A relay is just an on/off switch. Some older cars/bikes routed the headlight power directly through the on/off switch and the switches just were not rated to handle the current over time. A relay is used to offload the power from a weak on/off switch to a stronger (and easily replaceable) relay to handle the power better. YMMV
Quote from: Bill in OKC on March 05, 2013, 12:03:15 PM
EE here, but after 30 years some things might have changed since I was in school. LEDs do not have much of a high/low brightness variation just from varying the voltage to them. In the past we designed a circuit that varied the duty cycle ie: turned the voltage on and off quickly at different speeds to dim LEDs. They will dim a bit from dropping the voltage but as a diode their state is either on or off - they either have enough voltage to turn on or they don't. Some LEDs come packaged already with a dimmer circuit so maybe your headlight already has this? If so then you need to control the dimmer circuit. Another thing to consider is that it is not just the brightness but how the headlight is aimed when switching from low to high beam. The LED headlights I have seen use different LEDS or combinations of LEDS to create the high and low beams.
A relay is just an on/off switch. Some older cars/bikes routed the headlight power directly through the on/off switch and the switches just were not rated to handle the current over time. A relay is used to offload the power from a weak on/off switch to a stronger (and easily replaceable) relay to handle the power better. YMMV
Bill, thanks for the info! I will def look into it.
Led's are funny little devices. Each single led has 2 major parameters, forward voltage and max forward current.The forward voltage is fixed and cannot be changed, the current on the other hand can be varied up to the max permissible and thats how the brigthness is controlled. If you have a 10watt led that runs on 10volts we can quickly calculate that in order to emit 10watts of power(most of it being light) we need 1 amp of current. power=voltage*current. therefore you need to limit the current with a resistor to 1 amp or your little led will fry.now if your led drops 10volts and your battery is lets say 12 volts you have 2 volts left over that will be dropped across the resistor you are using to limit the current.(this is a series circuit) To select the proper size resistor you use the formula voltage(volts)=current(amps)*resistance(ohms). to solve for resistance divide 2 volts by 1 amp= 2ohms. You also need to calculate the power rating of your resistor ( or it too will fry), power = voltage*current, p=2*1= 2watts. resistor needed= 2 ohms 2 watts.
If your led light bulb that you want to install is rated for 12volt use, it shouldn't work when you try to dim it by cutting its voltage by any means.
One way to make an led emit more light than its rated is to send a large current through it but for a very small amount of time. If our previous led has a max current rating of 1 amp (thats continuous) and we decide to send 5 amps through it but for a very short period of time we can get 5 times the power. the problem is that you will only get a quick flash of light. yes you guessed it, why don't we do that alot and really fast. if you pulse that led faster than 30 times per second it will appear as a continuous light source to the human eye. That is how those intelligent controllers work.
in order to decide what size wire to use you need to know how much current it will carry. for a 14 guage wire you can run about 20 amps through a 15 foot length.
Quote from: xsephirot on March 05, 2013, 11:26:30 AM
What would you suggest be the minimum gauge to use? Is 18 enough?
On a side note, if you have too thick of a gauge (say 10 gauge) would naything happen?
For the for the wiring used for the control voltage of the relay, 18 gauge is fine. For the actual wiring to the LEDs, 14 gauge would be fine. A larger gauge wire will not have electrical effect, it just makes it harder to run in tight spaces.
Quote from: scaramanga on March 05, 2013, 04:20:32 PM
Led's are funny little devices. Each single led has 2 major parameters, forward voltage and max forward current.The forward voltage is fixed and cannot be changed, the current on the other hand can be varied up to the max permissible and thats how the brigthness is controlled. If you have a 10watt led that runs on 10volts we can quickly calculate that in order to emit 10watts of power(most of it being light) we need 1 amp of current. power=voltage*current. therefore you need to limit the current with a resistor to 1 amp or your little led will fry.now if your led drops 10volts and your battery is lets say 12 volts you have 2 volts left over that will be dropped across the resistor you are using to limit the current.(this is a series circuit) To select the proper size resistor you use the formula voltage(volts)=current(amps)*resistance(ohms). to solve for resistance divide 2 volts by 1 amp= 2ohms. You also need to calculate the power rating of your resistor ( or it too will fry), power = voltage*current, p=2*1= 2watts. resistor needed= 2 ohms 2 watts.
If your led light bulb that you want to install is rated for 12volt use, it shouldn't work when you try to dim it by cutting its voltage by any means.
One way to make an led emit more light than its rated is to send a large current through it but for a very small amount of time. If our previous led has a max current rating of 1 amp (thats continuous) and we decide to send 5 amps through it but for a very short period of time we can get 5 times the power. the problem is that you will only get a quick flash of light. yes you guessed it, why don't we do that alot and really fast. if you pulse that led faster than 30 times per second it will appear as a continuous light source to the human eye. That is how those intelligent controllers work.
in order to decide what size wire to use you need to know how much current it will carry. for a 14 guage wire you can run about 20 amps through a 15 foot length.
scara, thank you for that quick 101! That helped me quite a bit. These are the LED's I'm hoping to run on my bike: http://www.visionxusa.com/LED-Optimus_Series/c1_247/index.html (http://www.visionxusa.com/LED-Optimus_Series/c1_247/index.html)
It is plug and play if I choose to use their harness and it's handlebar mount. I am hoping to use my own handlebar mount which is why I'm all confused. Apparently it has a built in dimmer board with a special wire that needs to be connected to a dimmer relay.
I was told I could hook up the relay power source to my factory h4. Therefore when I switch the ignition to on, the dimmer relay would be powered on and draw 50% power. When I flip the lights to high beam the dimmer would be off and draw should be 100% but since the h4 would also be off then I would lose the forward voltage? (if i learned this right). The question is where would I connect the constant power source in relation to the dimmer relay?
Am I talking in circles or did I lose myself and everyone?
There is a PDF wiring diagram at the bottom of the page. It looks reasonable to me. Pretty much every manufacturer will have recommendations on how to use their device. Tech notes etc. I would look into getting more info on how the prime drive unit works - it could just be a high/low or on/off thing to change the light from high to low and that would make it easy..
the relay shown in the wiring diagram only applies power to the unit and light is on at max. lets call this the power relay.
it looks like you'll have to buy this option also
http://www.visionxusa.com/Accessories-Dimmer/c14_215/index.html (http://www.visionxusa.com/Accessories-Dimmer/c14_215/index.html)
this unit we will call the dimmer relay/unit. you should send them a note for more info on this unit so you could possibly use your own switch instead of theirs.
Quote from: Bill in OKC on March 06, 2013, 03:14:09 AM
There is a PDF wiring diagram at the bottom of the page. It looks reasonable to me. Pretty much every manufacturer will have recommendations on how to use their device. Tech notes etc. I would look into getting more info on how the prime drive unit works - it could just be a high/low or on/off thing to change the light from high to low and that would make it easy..
Yeah I saw that, but it doesn't show how the wiring works with the relay dimmer
Quote from: scaramanga on March 06, 2013, 04:25:54 AM
the relay shown in the wiring diagram only applies power to the unit and light is on at max. lets call this the power relay.
it looks like you'll have to buy this option also
http://www.visionxusa.com/Accessories-Dimmer/c14_215/index.html (http://www.visionxusa.com/Accessories-Dimmer/c14_215/index.html)
this unit we will call the dimmer relay/unit. you should send them a note for more info on this unit so you could possibly use your own switch instead of theirs.
I was thinking of using this switch instead http://www.lights.skenedesign.com/IQ_175.shtml. (http://www.lights.skenedesign.com/IQ_175.shtml.)
However the dealer for the manufacturer says it would not work. I'm not sure why. I've been tossing and turning thinking of this in bed all of last night.
Quote from: xsephirot on March 06, 2013, 06:28:59 AM
I was thinking of using this switch instead http://www.lights.skenedesign.com/IQ_175.shtml. (http://www.lights.skenedesign.com/IQ_175.shtml.)
However the dealer for the manufacturer says it would not work. I'm not sure why. I've been tossing and turning thinking of this in bed all of last night.
The IQ-175 looks like it's designed for incandescent headlamps. It will do Pulse width modulation (that was referenced in scaramanga's post (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=62180.msg1149729) above. The LED lights you're planning to use will likely have an LED driver circuit embedded inside. This is how it can run properly from such a wide range of voltages (spec sheet says 11-32V). This driver circuit will not "play nice" with the PWM signal that the IQ-175 puts out.
Your best bet would be to get the dimmer accessory from visionx and either get more info from them on how to use your own switch, or tear it apart and use its guts hooked up to the lo/hi beam switch on the duc.
A side note: those visionx lights are rated for "off road use," so I wonder how it'll fare on the streets. You may end up blinding oncoming traffic.
Yep, I'm an EE
One more thing: since these LED lights will draw less power than the standard halogens (especially when dimmed) you may want to consider upgrading the duc's regulator. The stock ones on the older ducs are notorious for overheating even under normal conditions, this would be accelerated with a lighter load from the electrical system.
Quote from: tuxicle on March 06, 2013, 07:00:31 AM
The IQ-175 looks like it's designed for incandescent headlamps. It will do Pulse width modulation (that was referenced in scaramanga's post (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=62180.msg1149729) above. The LED lights you're planning to use will likely have an LED driver circuit embedded inside. This is how it can run properly from such a wide range of voltages (spec sheet says 11-32V). This driver circuit will not "play nice" with the PWM signal that the IQ-175 puts out.
Your best bet would be to get the dimmer accessory from visionx and either get more info from them on how to use your own switch, or tear it apart and use its guts hooked up to the lo/hi beam switch on the duc.
A side note: those visionx lights are rated for "off road use," so I wonder how it'll fare on the streets. You may end up blinding oncoming traffic.
Yep, I'm an EE
Thanks for that explanation Jim! Yeah I want the dimmer option so I can use it on the road haha.
Quote from: tuxicle on March 06, 2013, 07:08:52 AM
One more thing: since these LED lights will draw less power than the standard halogens (especially when dimmed) you may want to consider upgrading the duc's regulator. The stock ones on the older ducs are notorious for overheating even under normal conditions, this would be accelerated with a lighter load from the electrical system.
Yup, already upgraded mine's to a MOSFET regulator last year... ironically after I got stranded on an interstate when the old one overheated.
Quote from: xsephirot on March 06, 2013, 06:28:59 AM
Yeah I saw that, but it doesn't show how the wiring works with the relay dimmer
There is not any relay dimmer. Just a relay to supply power to the headlight. The headlight will come on when you turn the key on - you probably will not have the on/off switch shown in the schematic. The additional prime drive box will dim the headlight and it is plug and play. It looks kind of large and clunky so you might have to extend some cables to hide it somewhere. The dimmer control is on that additional box so if you want to use the factory high/low switch you will need to do some wiring surgery to replace the standard dimmer switch with your stock handlebar switch.
QuoteI was thinking of using this switch instead http://www.lights.skenedesign.com/IQ_175.shtml. (http://www.lights.skenedesign.com/IQ_175.shtml.)
However the dealer for the manufacturer says it would not work. I'm not sure why. I've been tossing and turning thinking of this in bed all of last night.
Yes that does look like it is for a standard bulb instead of an LED. The standard bulb would be dimmed by varying the voltage applied while the LED is dimmed by varying the duty cycle (on/off time) ie PWM.
The hardest part if you go this route will be extending the cable to the dimmer box so you can hide it and splicing your high/low beam switch in to replace the switch on the dimmer box.
QuoteOne more thing: since these LED lights will draw less power than the standard halogens (especially when dimmed) you may want to consider upgrading the duc's regulator. The stock ones on the older ducs are notorious for overheating even under normal conditions, this would be accelerated with a lighter load from the electrical system.
Sorry but i don't understand this. if your load is lighter (no pun intended, get it headlight....lighter [roll]) how would the regulator work harder.
Lighter load = less current the regulator needs to supply hence it will be happier.
I guess the power being generated has to go somewhere.
Another thing since you *probably* do not have the headlight on/off switch -and- the LED drawing less power you probably do not need the power relay in the schematic either. But I would never advise doing something different than the manufacturer suggests...
Quote from: scaramanga on March 06, 2013, 12:53:16 PM
Sorry but i don't understand this. if your load is lighter (no pun intended, get it headlight....lighter [roll]) how would the regulator work harder.
Lighter load = less current the regulator needs to supply hence it will be happier.
Seems counter-intuitive, but what tuxicle said is correct.
One of the jobs of the regulator-rectifier is to dispose of excess electrical power as heat.
Because the alternator is running 'full throttle' at all times, the R-R is dumping a lot of power even when rpm is only moderately high.
Higher power draw headlight eases the load on the R-R.
Quote from: scaramanga on March 06, 2013, 12:53:16 PM
Sorry but i don't understand this. if your load is lighter (no pun intended, get it headlight....lighter [roll]) how would the regulator work harder.
Lighter load = less current the regulator needs to supply hence it will be happier.
If the alternator was is like the type used in cars or some touring motorcycles (field winding rather than a permanent magnet rotor) where the regulator controls output by field current) you would be correct. In the case of our Ducatis and most motorcycles tuxicle and Speeddog are correct, excess current turns to heat. Too much heat makes smoke, and we all remember what happens when the smoke gets out:
ELECTRICAL THEORY BY JOSEPH LUCAS
Positive ground depends on proper circuit functioning, which is the
transmission of negative ions by retention of the visible spectral
manifestation known as "smoke".
Smoke is the thing that makes electrical circuits work. We know this to be
true because every time one lets the smoke out of an electrical circuit, it
stops working. This can be verified repeatedly through empirical testing.
For example, if one places a copper bar across the terminals of a battery,
prodigious quantities of smoke are liberated and the battery shortly ceases
to function. In addition, if one observes smoke escaping from an electrical
component such as a Lucas voltage regulator, it will also be observed that
the component no longer functions. The logic is elementary and inescapable!
The function of the wiring harness is to conduct the smoke from one device
to another. When the wiring springs a leak and lets all the smoke out of the
system, nothing works afterward.
Starter motors were considered unsuitable for British motorcycles for some
time largely because they consumed large quantities of smoke, requiring very unsightly large wires.
It has been reported that Lucas electrical components are possibly more
prone to electrical leakage than their Bosch, Japanese or American
counterparts. Experts point out that this is because Lucas is British, and
all things British leak. British engines leak oil, British shock absorbers,
hydraulic forks and disk brake systems leak fluid, British tires leak air
and British Intelligence leaks national defense secrets.
Therefore, it follows that British electrical systems must leak smoke. Once
again, the logic is clear and inescapable.
In conclusion, the basic concept of transmission of electrical energy in the
form of smoke provides a logical explanation of the mysteries of electrical
components - especially British units manufactured by Joseph Lucas, Ltd.
Quote from: howie on March 06, 2013, 03:08:14 PM
If the alternator was is like the type used in cars or some touring motorcycles (field winding rather than a permanent magnet rotor) where the regulator controls output by field current) you would be correct. In the case of our Ducatis and most motorcycles tuxicle and Speeddog are correct, excess current turns to heat. Too much heat makes smoke, and we all remember what happens when the smoke gets out:
ELECTRICAL THEORY BY JOSEPH LUCAS
Positive ground depends on proper circuit functioning, which is the
transmission of negative ions by retention of the visible spectral
manifestation known as "smoke".
Smoke is the thing that makes electrical circuits work. We know this to be
true because every time one lets the smoke out of an electrical circuit, it
stops working. This can be verified repeatedly through empirical testing.
For example, if one places a copper bar across the terminals of a battery,
prodigious quantities of smoke are liberated and the battery shortly ceases
to function. In addition, if one observes smoke escaping from an electrical
component such as a Lucas voltage regulator, it will also be observed that
the component no longer functions. The logic is elementary and inescapable!
The function of the wiring harness is to conduct the smoke from one device
to another. When the wiring springs a leak and lets all the smoke out of the
system, nothing works afterward.
Starter motors were considered unsuitable for British motorcycles for some
time largely because they consumed large quantities of smoke, requiring very unsightly large wires.
It has been reported that Lucas electrical components are possibly more
prone to electrical leakage than their Bosch, Japanese or American
counterparts. Experts point out that this is because Lucas is British, and
all things British leak. British engines leak oil, British shock absorbers,
hydraulic forks and disk brake systems leak fluid, British tires leak air
and British Intelligence leaks national defense secrets.
Therefore, it follows that British electrical systems must leak smoke. Once
again, the logic is clear and inescapable.
In conclusion, the basic concept of transmission of electrical energy in the
form of smoke provides a logical explanation of the mysteries of electrical
components - especially British units manufactured by Joseph Lucas, Ltd.
Classic... [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]
so ducati =
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u662/scaramanga3/ducatiregulator_zps9286035b.gif)
not ducati=
(http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u662/scaramanga3/notDucati_zpsf7e86eee.gif)
Slightly off topic but does anyone know how our monster's H4 works?
When we flip from low beam to high beam, does the the low beam power get shut off? Be alot easier if I could wire the dimmer relay power to the h4 low beam and the switch power directly to the high beam h4 instead of having to find a constant power source like the rear plate lights.
Yep.
Std headlight has 2 filaments think of two globes in one, brake\tail lights are similar. Say 45W for low and 60W for high. The power is switched between the two. They shouldn't be on at the same time.
Just in case anyone hasn't mentioned it if you use a dimmer the excess power will get converted into heat and will need to be ventilated\cooled properly.
And make sure you have the correct angles for the hi & Lo beams. Cos it can be annoying to almost dangerous to oncoming drivers if they aren't. After having done quite a few night runs between Syd & Brisbane and Syd & Melbourne (1000k trip one way) a badly adjusted oncoming headlight is a make the beast with two backsen pregnant dog.
Quote from: howie on March 06, 2013, 03:08:14 PM
If the alternator was is like the type used in cars or some touring motorcycles (field winding rather than a permanent magnet rotor) where the regulator controls output by field current) you would be correct. In the case of our Ducatis and most motorcycles tuxicle and Speeddog are correct, excess current turns to heat. Too much heat makes smoke, and we all remember what happens when the smoke gets out:
Regardless of whether the current is supplied to various loads, or it is shed as heat,the regulator and rectifier diodes will still see the same amount of current. Where excess heat becomes a problem is poor design and placement of the reg/rect to get rid of that heat. Yes, under the seat is not the best place for one.
I believe on the classic Monsters, anyway, that the low beam is shut off when the high beam is engaged. One way around this is to use a diode on the high beam signal. This would make things work properly even when using the passing switch.
(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9017/headlightconnector.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/headlightconnector.png/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
I showed the "control" line with a dashed line to indicate that you can use the high beam signal to control the LED light brightness through some other means (perhaps a relay, etc), the diode will "isolate" the line from the voltage that appears at the LED lamp input when the H4 connector's LO BEAM signal is active.
I indicated an 1N4007, this is a cheap 1A diode that should be available at any Radio Shack or local component vendor. Other variants change the last digit (1N4004, for example), for this application they're all equivalent. You could also use a higher current diode like a 1N5401, these are rated for up to 3A average current. The diode should be connected as indicated, the "arrow" points to the side of the diode with a silver band. Use some heat-shrink tubing to wrap up all the connections and you should be done.
I believe Kui (aka He Man) also wrote about this in his HID tutorial.
Quote from: Dry Martini on March 07, 2013, 09:03:47 AM
Regardless of whether the current is supplied to various loads, or it is shed as heat,the regulator and rectifier diodes will still see the same amount of current. Where excess heat becomes a problem is poor design and placement of the reg/rect to get rid of that heat. Yes, under the seat is not the best place for one.
While placement is an issue, the way the shunt regulators work is they short-circuit the stator for part of the cycle. By adjusting how much of the cycle they short out, they achieve voltage regulation. The OEM regulators use SCRs to short out the stator, while the Shindengen units use MOSFETs. SCRs have a higher "ON" resistance than MOSFETs, so for the same short circuit current, they generate more heat.
Quote from: OzzyRob on March 07, 2013, 08:40:46 AM
And make sure you have the correct angles for the hi & Lo beams. Cos it can be annoying to almost dangerous to oncoming drivers if they aren't. After having done quite a few night runs between Syd & Brisbane and Syd & Melbourne (1000k trip one way) a badly adjusted oncoming headlight is a make the beast with two backsen pregnant dog.
Yeah, true that.
Quote from: Dry Martini on March 07, 2013, 09:03:47 AM
Regardless of whether the current is supplied to various loads, or it is shed as heat,the regulator and rectifier diodes will still see the same amount of current. Where excess heat becomes a problem is poor design and placement of the reg/rect to get rid of that heat. Yes, under the seat is not the best place for one.
Heh.. I have my mosfet regulator under my seat. I couldn't think of any better place to mount it that would get enough air on it.
Quote from: tuxicle on March 07, 2013, 09:05:28 AM
I believe on the classic Monsters, anyway, that the low beam is shut off when the high beam is engaged. One way around this is to use a diode on the high beam signal. This would make things work properly even when using the passing switch.
(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9017/headlightconnector.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/headlightconnector.png/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
I showed the "control" line with a dashed line to indicate that you can use the high beam signal to control the LED light brightness through some other means (perhaps a relay, etc), the diode will "isolate" the line from the voltage that appears at the LED lamp input when the H4 connector's LO BEAM signal is active.
I indicated an 1N4007, this is a cheap 1A diode that should be available at any Radio Shack or local component vendor. Other variants change the last digit (1N4004, for example), for this application they're all equivalent. You could also use a higher current diode like a 1N5401, these are rated for up to 3A average current. The diode should be connected as indicated, the "arrow" points to the side of the diode with a silver band. Use some heat-shrink tubing to wrap up all the connections and you should be done.
I believe Kui (aka He Man) also wrote about this in his HID tutorial.
Thank you so much for that diagram Jim! If I apply it to my application I believe the input goes to the control (dimmer relay) and then to the lo beam. So if I add a diode to the high beam, then wouldn't the hi beam be also dimmed (same output as lo beam)?
Or if I reversed the diagram and had the diode on the lo beam along with the control? Because the LED naturally is powered to 100% and the dimmer is there just to dim (waste energy/heat)
OK, that last diagram was not complete, that's why the "control" signal was marked with a dashed line. Here's something closer to what you'd actually end up with:
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9017/headlightconnector.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/29/headlightconnector.png/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Note that I've marked the relay terminals with generic names, automotive relay data sheets will tell you which terminals are coil (polarity usually does not matter, I used "+" and "-" since the CAD program I drew the figure with won't let me give two terminals the same name). The "NO" terminal is "normally open", which gets connected to the "COM" (common) terminal when the coil has 12V applied to it. This should be wired across the dimmer unit's switch. You'd probably have to crack it open to get access to the switch and solder in some wires. Then, wire the dimmer as recommended by the manufacturer. As shown, the yellow/green control wire from the LED light should go to the dimmer. The remaining should go to the battery, or some other source of +12V.
HTH.
So I just got the wiring harness and lights today. The harness is setup completely different than the picture with diodes and different what I imagined.
I suppose their way will work but I have a question:
The H4 low beam is going to power my dimmer but I also want to use the "parking" wires to also power the dimmer when I turn my key to 'park'. If I connect the positive of the parking wire and the low beam h4 into a butt slice that goes into the dimmer will there be any issues? I'm just assuming say if the bike is on and running that the positive current from the h4 won't affect and go in reverse (if that makes any sense) into the parking positive.
Or do I need a diode on both positives for the low and parking?
*edit* after much much more googling, i suppose my question should be: is the power from the h4 and the parking lights AC or DC? I'm sure it's XOR?
The main headlights and parking lights look like there shouldn't be a problem connecting them together. When the bike's running and the low-beam is turned on, the voltage at the H4 bulb's low beam filament should be +12, same as that at the parking bulb. Connecting them together should not cause any problems.
Also, all the loads on the bike are DC.