I'm in the middle of upgrading my triple clamps to MOD1 "classic" upper & MOD1 "evo" lower IMA special parts (thanks Josh, a.k.a. junior varsity). I've got new tapered All Balls racing bearings and the outer races are currently sitting in my freezer so I can easily tap them into my frame.
Once I get those in, is there a particular procedure on how to "seat" the bearings? Do I just torque the steering stem collar snug and allow the triples to do the work to "squeeze" it all together, or....???
thanks.
I was taught to use the old seat to tap it down until you hear a 'ping' as it hits bottom
but officially, there is a tool that pulls the seat down into the tube
Quote from: Raux on March 14, 2013, 04:35:44 AM
I was taught to use the old seat to tap it down until you hear a 'ping' as it hits bottom
but officially, there is a tool that pulls the seat down into the tube
Yup got the old seat standing by, however do I have to crank the steering lock collar "tight" to squish it all together and then back it off a little so the trees turn freely without up or down play?
make a puller get some 3/8 or 10mm threaded rod 2 large washers and nuts and pull the bearings in together nice and gentle no hammers or force needed
Don't use the balls to seat the races or you could 'brinell' (flat spot) them.
Just bring them up to proper adjustment.
Which bike? Is it the new style ST frame with the nut on top, or the older 851 framed bike?
Quote from: clubhousemotorsports on March 14, 2013, 07:45:02 AM
Which bike? Is it the new style ST frame with the nut on top, or the older 851 framed bike?
2000 Monster, "hooped" rear suspension with nut on the top triple. Based on the older 851/888 bikes.
ok I've installed the outer races in the frame and seated them using the old bearing races. You can definately tell when they've fully seated.
I am now however having issues getting the upper bearing to slide over the IMA steering stem. Its pretty snug and needs gentle tapping to get it passed the threaded top portion of the steering stem. The IMA stem must be a hair thicker than the OEM stem, because I can get the old & new bearing to slide onto the OEM stem pretty easily. Is tapping the tapered bearing ok? I had no choice but to do it this way so I can get the top bearing, dust shield and lock collar in place.
My other concern is the gap on the lower bearings dust shield and the bottom of the steering stem. Its just over a 1/8th" gap and I dont know if this is normal. I dont have any up or down play on the triples with the lock collar snugged up in place, and left and right movement of the triples seems fairly light, not super loose.... but light. I'm guessing the grease in the bearings is making me think that its not moving very loose because of that.
Can you pros shed some light on this please so I can get my 998 forks in place and install my clip ons next.
PICS for a better understanding (sorry taken with old Iphone)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-pRZS3QOn_U4/UUaitf_Z6bI/AAAAAAAAAkQ/BSrtev40ul4/s911/2013-03-17)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-BzMMYy7tUik/UUajfTzZwBI/AAAAAAAAAko/JiL43PiSbXk/s911/2013-03-17)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tidyic0pn5Q/UUakMbvqTVI/AAAAAAAAAlA/ECh3_Bg1buE/w497-h373/2013-03-17)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-NhVaTQCIXp4/UUakRE-x1CI/AAAAAAAAAlU/y2AF6So4h3k/w497-h373/2013-03-17)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_JwUJzWl30o/UUakYB-LI5I/AAAAAAAAAl0/P8QMtw9-exc/w497-h373/2013-03-17)
Should I "seat" the upper bearing more to take in that lower triple gap? If I do that, then the trees dont turn freely, they will require force which I know is wrong.
??? ??? ???
Can someone have a look at their lower triple to see if there's a gap like mine at the base of the steering stem. I made the mistake of not paying attention to my OEM parts before I tore it down.
FWIW, on my M695 with OE triples and bearings there is only about 1mm gap between the frame headtube and the lower triple. On my 749s with Ducshop triples and Speedymoto tapered bearings the gap is seemingly bigger, but with the bodywork on I can't get a good view of it.
BK
No space on my stock triple, but I don't know if that is useful info for you. Maybe a call to IMA is in order? Or Josh?
Mod1 are for 1st gen monsters ie up to 2001
Mod2 are for later monsters.
But I'm gunna assume that's a typo in your original post.
email Patrick directly at IMA in Italy, he's a great bloke and very very patient. English is no problem for him either.
p.costa@imasrl.com
If you can take a couple of pics with the clamps off the bike I maybe able to help out.
Here's mine with just the stem installed on an 03
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x251/seusssandm/9e844107.jpg)
You may have to get us a little better pic. It almost looks like on the duct cover on the bottle race isnt settled or positioned correctly but it may be the picture. Ill take so e closer ones of mine.
Quote from: OzzyRob on March 19, 2013, 04:02:18 PM
Mod1 are for 1st gen monsters ie up to 2001
Mod2 are for later monsters.
But I'm gunna assume that's a typo in your original post.
email Patrick directly at IMA in Italy, he's a great bloke and very very patient. English is no problem for him either.
p.costa@imasrl.com
If you can take a couple of pics with the clamps off the bike I maybe able to help out.
I stand corrected. MOD1 "classic" upper & MOD1-"evo" lower triples.
I will have to shoot Josh an email since I got them from him.
My top
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x251/seusssandm/6E8385F1-875C-4F66-918E-5A002F1F515D-8380-000009AE6D140B2A.jpg)
Bottom
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x251/seusssandm/07BC693E-5070-45BD-9E29-BC6DE82D9DF8-8380-000009AE7597698F.jpg)
Quote from: Düb Lüv on March 19, 2013, 05:59:23 PM
You may have to get us a little better pic. It almost looks like on the duct cover on the bottle race isnt settled or positioned correctly but it may be the picture. Ill take so e closer ones of mine.
Josh sent me the triples with the bottom washer/seal and bearing already "pressed" onto the stem. The more I look at it, I'm beginning to think that the lower bearing isnt pressed low enough on the stem? I dont think that will make a difference in terms of the visible gap I see. Gap is between the bottom washer plate and the bottom of the steering tube. I can see the rubber on the bearing seal.
If it still looks concerning, you may need to pull it apart again to take a second look. Working with just the stem is the easiest the throw the upper and lowers on.
Josh helped me with the order of the headset stuff also.
Quote from: Düb Lüv on March 19, 2013, 06:19:59 PM
If it still looks concerning, you may need to pull it apart again to take a second look. Working with just the stem is the easiest the throw the upper and lowers on.
Josh helped me with the order of the headset stuff also.
My top bearing doesnt slide over the top of the steering stem easily. They are new tapered bearings. In comparision to my OEM stem, new and old bearing slide on easy by hand. With the new stem I have to tap it into place with effort. The only way to get it apart now is if I hammer on the top stem pushing it out of the steering tube.
Arrggghhhhhhhhhhhh......................... [bang] [bang] [bang]
prior to installation with base plate, seal and bearing pressed on.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-YakZS12ghsE/UUkWUceTdcI/AAAAAAAAAm4/Y805fA5iDo4/s815/IMG_1874.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RIHFJFlOabg/UUkWTdAOeUI/AAAAAAAAAmw/5_7YrmE2a0M/s815/IMG_1873.JPG)
I'd just hang tight til you either hear something from josh or IMA for a solution. Yeah it sucks but nothing you can. Being a car mechanic patients pays off. Everything will be okay. Believe me.
Quote from: Düb Lüv on March 19, 2013, 07:22:33 PM
I'd just hang tight til you either hear something from josh or IMA for a solution. Yeah it sucks but nothing you can. Being a car mechanic patients pays off. Everything will be okay. Believe me.
thanks for the words of wisdom. I guess I've got no choice but to wait. My forks and clip ons await, as well as my freshly refinished Marchesinis
Quote from: COP TZR on March 19, 2013, 07:30:50 PM
thanks for the words of wisdom. I guess I've got no choice but to wait. My forks and clip ons await, as well as my freshly refinished Marchesinis
I'd just hate to see anything get scratched or damaged especially those triples.
Quote from: COP TZR on March 19, 2013, 06:00:14 PM
I stand corrected. MOD1 "classic" upper & MOD1-"evo" lower triples.
I will have to shoot Josh an email since I got them from him.
I'm still waiting. I've sent Josh an email
Been out of town, sorry for the delay. If I need to get you a replacement stem I can do that. We've had one other report of thickness being out of spec on stems due to irregularities in the anodizing process, but very isolated compared to total number of stems made.
As far as the lower bearing being seated, that's the first place to look to see if perhaps its not flush. On the all-balls bearing kits we've used, we do find a bit of drag from the seal on the bearing race. Its attributable to the size of their bearing and seal, and the slight interference of the two. We've not noticed any effects on performance.
Let me know what I can do to help you out, and I'll get things rolling on my end. I'm back on airplane later today, and then back on another airplane tomorrow night, so I'll have a bit of downtime to think about this while in airports, but unable to ship anything presently.
Quote from: junior varsity on March 21, 2013, 08:07:47 AM
Been out of town, sorry for the delay. If I need to get you a replacement stem I can do that. We've had one other report of thickness being out of spec on stems due to irregularities in the anodizing process, but very isolated compared to total number of stems made.
As far as the lower bearing being seated, that's the first place to look to see if perhaps its not flush. On the all-balls bearing kits we've used, we do find a bit of drag from the seal on the bearing race. Its attributable to the size of their bearing and seal, and the slight interference of the two. We've not noticed any effects on performance.
Let me know what I can do to help you out, and I'll get things rolling on my end. I'm back on airplane later today, and then back on another airplane tomorrow night, so I'll have a bit of downtime to think about this while in airports, but unable to ship anything presently.
Josh,
Can you PM me or reply via email please. I think I'll need a replacement stem. Bearings are seated all the way. If I press them in anymore, the steering is too snug requiring effort to turn the triples. Shouldnt they turn freely? I understand there will be a little drag due to grease and seals, but shouldnt require force to turn
to add to this... when I removed my OEM triples and bearings, there were no bearing seals in either upper and lower bearing. It was just the washer base plate on the lower, and the "dished" washer on the upper. Are those acting as seals? When I look at the Ducati parts catalog for my bike (2000 M750), the exploded diagram only shows the bearings and washer. No seals. If I assemble my IMA triples in this fashion without seals, the fitment looks good.
Do I eliminate the seals? Any issues without them?
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4aQaH9LX4gU/UUvUmJFFP_I/AAAAAAAAAow/L-unutNVl8E/s911/2013-03-21)
IMO, do what you can to use the seals.
Steering head bearings on a streetbike need seals.
Quote from: Speeddog on March 21, 2013, 10:18:39 PM
IMO, do what you can to use the seals.
Steering head bearings on a streetbike need seals.
I understand your point of view, however why did my original parts not have seals and why does the parts fische not show seals either? Just the washers on top of the bearings.
Quote from: COP TZR on March 22, 2013, 09:35:59 PM
I understand your point of view, however why did my original parts not have seals and why does the parts fische not show seals either? Just the washers on top of the bearings.
The pre-ST or 851 framed bikes had no seals.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 23, 2013, 07:10:38 AM
The pre-ST or 851 framed bikes had no seals.
I really appreciate everyones help and input to this matter. I gotta get this solved so I can complete assembly and get her rolling. So, if no seals were used on the earlier bikes (like mine), should I reinstall that way or not? Its probably better to have seals, than not. But problem now is that the lower bearing already has a seal in place.
Other possible option maybe, is to install both seals and not use the "dished" top washer. Would that be ok? That layout allows me to thread the lock collar in place. If I try to use the top seal and "dished" washer, it becomes too thick and I cannot thread the lock collar onto the stem. Is the stem too short?
I believe Josh is still out of town, and from his previous post I'm hoping that I didnt get a poorly milled stem.
What is your bike?
Quote from: COP TZR on March 23, 2013, 11:31:46 AM
2000 M750
Are the triples for an 851 framed bike?
If so I'd expect they weren't sized for the extra thickness of the seals and even though the seal is a good idea it may not fit in your bike with that triple.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 23, 2013, 11:40:20 AM
Are the triples for an 851 framed bike?
If so I'd expect they weren't sized for the extra thickness of the seals and even though the seal is a good idea it may not fit in your bike with that triple.
Supposed to be. They are the MOD1 line up which is intended for my generation of frames.
Quote from: COP TZR on March 23, 2013, 11:51:16 AM
Supposed to be. They are the MOD1 line up which is intended for my generation of frames.
I'd ditch the seals and put it together....
but that's me.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 23, 2013, 02:14:46 PM
I'd ditch the seals and put it together....
but that's me.
Not really an option for me. Lower bearing has already been pressed onto the stem with the seal. Not easy for me to remove.
Quote from: COP TZR on March 23, 2013, 02:32:23 PM
Not really an option for me. Lower bearing has already been pressed onto the stem with the seal. Not easy for me to remove.
I understand it isn't easy and doing it without destroying the bearing is nigh on impossible...
but they make new bearings every day.
From the pics you posted it doesn't look like the seal will be effective anyway.
Your bike...your call.
i don't use seals on the early bikes, just the lower plate and upper dish. and on bikes i do use seals on i don't use the supplied all balls, speedymoto, etc anyway. they don't fit well.
i'd assemble it original style. ime the seals on the later ones can be very good at retaining any water that does get in.
I'm not seeing any seals in the parts book for the 2009 M1100S, just what looks like a cup washer that the call a "seal ring".
Quote from: SpikeC on March 24, 2013, 01:21:24 PM
I'm not seeing any seals in the parts book for the 2009 M1100S, just what looks like a cup washer that the call a "seal ring".
That is your seal. Same type of seal thats been supplied with my new bearings. 2002 and up looks like they use seals.
Gotcha!
Does IMA lack in customer service? Its been several days and I have yet to get a reply from anyone over there. Italy & North America. This is upsetting :(
Quote from: COP TZR on March 26, 2013, 01:29:51 PM
Does IMA lack in customer service? Its been several days and I have yet to get a reply from anyone over there. Italy & North America. This is upsetting :(
Did you buy these new or used?
Quote from: COP TZR on March 26, 2013, 02:24:15 PM
New.
Interesting.
Josh isn't a sponsor and he's retailing parts?
Seems like he's skipped a step.
Good luck.
Quote from: COP TZR on March 26, 2013, 01:29:51 PM
Does IMA lack in customer service? Its been several days and I have yet to get a reply from anyone over there. Italy & North America. This is upsetting :(
I've had dealings with Pat in Italy via email and he's great. I bought a set of M900 triples and had him machine a stem to suit a gsxr frame.
Is there any way the stem may have been pushed down in the bottom triple when the bearings were installed ?
Quote from: OzzyRob on March 26, 2013, 05:47:16 PM
I've had dealings with Pat in Italy via email and he's great. I bought a set of M900 triples and had him machine a stem to suit a gsxr frame.
Is there any way the stem may have been pushed down in the bottom triple when the bearings were installed ?
I've sent Pat an email, but no news yet. The stem can't get pushed any further into the lower triple because it has a wider diameter base.
Easter week in europe. lots of vacations
Josh isn't actively selling parts. Josh is actively engaged in a wholly unrelated field of work that has had him travelling lots recently. Nevertheless, Josh has a replacement stem for him.
Quote from: junior varsity on March 27, 2013, 05:36:45 PM
Josh isn't actively selling parts. Josh is actively engaged in a wholly unrelated field of work that has had him travelling lots recently. Nevertheless, Josh has a replacement stem for him.
Josh is the man! Delays due to his travels, however issue is being resolved and he's dedicated to making it right.
Thanks pal. [thumbsup]
Issue resolved. New steering stem was required, as the 1st one was slightly overmilled or too thick due to anodizing process. Installed without upper or lower bearing seals as OEM and the fit is perfect!
thanks all for your help and input.
Well there is some good news. Post pics or it didn't happen.