Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: nizfiz on March 15, 2013, 09:20:31 AM

Title: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: nizfiz on March 15, 2013, 09:20:31 AM
Last summer, after a 2 hour ride w/ my girlfriend on the back of my 2004 S4R, I noticed black gooey stuff splattered all over my swingarm. It looked kind of like tar, but it obviously came from the chain. I thought because of the passenger weight, the chain was rubbing against something it didn't normally come in contact with. Then it kept happening in subsequent no-passenger rides.

I worried about many things, and thought it might be the chain guard, which I took off.

Eventually, I found that the chain was actually rubbing against the chainguard rail on the top of the swingarm (near it's pivot point). You can see that in the image below:

(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a554/Alexandre_Fisher/Bike%20sell%20items/IMAG0377.jpg)

To get it to clear that, I realize that 3 things need to be more or less in a alignment: front sprocket, swingarm pivot point and rear sprocket.

This does not seem possible w/o messing up the chain tension or changing suspension settings.

Why did this happen when I didn't change the ride height in the rear in any major way? Solutions?
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: TJR178 on March 15, 2013, 09:58:32 AM
This happened to me when I put my 14T on, and raised the ride height years ago.  I never really worried about it.  I replaced the guard a couple years ago when I had the swingarm off for powdercoating. Chain still rubs a bit, again, not worried.  I'd worry if the chain started hitting the swingarm itself.
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: stopintime on March 15, 2013, 10:29:19 AM
With a passenger the bike will ride lower and the chain will, in some situations, have more slack - hitting the swingarm protector harder - more efficiently pushing/beating the grease and dirt out from under the plastic piece. That's my theory - does it sound logical to you?

FWIW, my plastic piece has been punished hard for + 50K miles and still looks fine. Always a lot of dirt under it though.
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: Howie on March 15, 2013, 01:07:48 PM
Are you seeing excessive wear on the chain guard?  Does it rub under load?
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: nizfiz on March 15, 2013, 01:50:53 PM
Yes, the chain has dug grooves into the guard on the top surface of the swingarm. Now, it seems to rub LESS under load. This is because as the swingarm comes up relative to its pivot point, more room is created between the chain the top of the swingarm. I don't know how this happened, but I want to stop it without messing my suspension settings and ride height too bad. I suppose I need to lower ride height in the rear. I also want to make sure there isn't something else wrong.
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: ducpainter on March 15, 2013, 03:11:48 PM
If you raised the ride height and or changed to a 14T front sprocket it is typical for the chain to rub on the protector.
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: BK_856er on March 15, 2013, 03:24:13 PM
Some wear on the slider is normal.  Will depend on lots of things, like your chain adjustment habits and chassis geometry settings, how you ride, etc.  If you go down a tooth on the front sprocket the chain will come closer to the slider and wear it faster.  Are you running a 14T front sprocket?  I used to, but then went back to 15T and added a few teeth to the rear sprocket for similar overall gearing and better chain geometry.  Never hurts to make sure you have a proper ride height baseline (ie swingarm angle), but I wouldn't tweak the suspension just to lessen wear on the slider.  Replace the slider before it wears through completely - you don't want the chain rubbing on your aluminun swingarm!

BK
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: Howie on March 15, 2013, 05:13:15 PM
Post a photo showing the wear and mileage on the chain guard.  It is possible the situation is normal.  As BK said, check ride height and sag.
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: Speeddog on March 15, 2013, 06:33:19 PM
He's got a 14 on there.
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: nizfiz on March 15, 2013, 06:53:35 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on March 15, 2013, 06:33:19 PM
He's got a 14 on there.

how'd you spot that?

I'll get a pic tomorrow of the wear. I dunno the mileage on it though. I bought the bike a year ago
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: Howie on March 15, 2013, 10:01:07 PM
A whole bunch of folk asked if you were running a 14, that is why I didn't ask. though it m  14 will increase contact on the guard, but, if the rear is not raised, wear should not be a problem. 
Title: Re: Re: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: Heath on March 17, 2013, 12:48:27 PM
Quote from: nizfiz on March 15, 2013, 06:53:35 PM
how'd you spot that?

I'll get a pic tomorrow of the wear. I dunno the mileage on it though. I bought the bike a year ago
You can count the teeth off of the pic. My chain rubs on the guard but I've never been worried about it. If you have a build up a black gunk to the most likely from your chain lube.
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: cactus-pits on March 17, 2013, 06:18:50 PM
I've always been concerned about my chain...it basically lays on a groove on the swingarm..(2009 696, double sided) when parked and when I grab it from the bottom and wiggle up and down it travels almost 2".
is this normal? I've had the bike for a year..I've been a bicycle mechanic for half my life and ime that's a loose chain..??
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: BK_856er on March 17, 2013, 06:30:53 PM
Quote from: cactus-pits on March 17, 2013, 06:18:50 PM
I've always been concerned about my chain...it basically lays on a groove on the swingarm..(2009 696, double sided) when parked and when I grab it from the bottom and wiggle up and down it travels almost 2".
is this normal? I've had the bike for a year..I've been a bicycle mechanic for half my life and ime that's a loose chain..??

Loose = good.  Tight = bad.

Shoot for the loose end of the spec with the indicated technique (varies with bike).  Check a few spots along the chain, as it can vary.

With all your weight on the bike you want at least 3/4" inch of slop in the chain (might take two people to do).

Tight chain = bound up suspension and fried output bearing (split the cases to repair - not cheap!).

BK
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: cactus-pits on March 17, 2013, 06:42:15 PM
it's never sounded or felt bad..but I'll check next time I got my old lady in the garage..which is rare!
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: Dry Martini on March 18, 2013, 03:29:00 AM
Quote from: cactus-pits on March 17, 2013, 06:42:15 PM
it's never sounded or felt bad..but I'll check next time I got my old lady in the garage..which is rare!

Well if you stop referring to her as "old lady", she might be more cooperative. Just sayin. :D
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: Armor on March 18, 2013, 09:37:46 AM
You should check and adjust your chain.  Procedure is in the owners manual.  This is part of the regular maintenance.
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: SpikeC on March 18, 2013, 01:01:44 PM
 I have had a very hard time understanding the owners manual instructions for tensioning the chain on my '09 Monster. It says to measure the distance from the bottom of the swing arm to the center of the chain pin at 61 to 63mm, butt varying the slack in the chain does not seem to influence this measurement. The chain whacks against the bottom rubbing block hen done like this!
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: ducpainter on March 18, 2013, 02:58:21 PM
Quote from: SpikeC on March 18, 2013, 01:01:44 PM
I have had a very hard time understanding the owners manual instructions for tensioning the chain on my '09 Monster. It says to measure the distance from the bottom of the swing arm to the center of the chain pin at 61 to 63mm, butt varying the slack in the chain does not seem to influence this measurement. The chain whacks against the bottom rubbing block hen done like this!
Where along the swingarm are you measuring?

You should get as close to the middle of the run as possible.
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: stopintime on March 18, 2013, 03:54:07 PM
Quote from: SpikeC on March 18, 2013, 01:01:44 PM
............

The chain whacks against the bottom rubbing block hen done like this!

Do you measure while pushing down with one finger?

If it has a rubbing block, maybe the chain is allowed/supposed to hit from time to time....
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: SpikeC on March 18, 2013, 05:23:07 PM
Way back when I had chain drive the way to measure was pushing up and down at the middle of the run and the difference was the deal, like 1 or 2 inches of free play.
Pushing down on the chain only moves it 1/8 of an inch, butt pushing up it goes until it hits the rubbing block, which is about an inch.
I don't want to hijack this thread, so I will just sit back and ponder the vagarities of the translations!
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: Howie on March 18, 2013, 06:10:23 PM
pull down on chain or move wheel so there is no slack on top of the swing arm.  If you do not remove the slack on top the chain will be too loose.  The difference between low and high while moving with your fingers is slack.  Err on the side of loose.  New generation Monsters run more slack because there is more suspension travel.
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: bob795 on March 18, 2013, 08:13:29 PM
My chain also rubs the plastic cover on the swingarn.
I worried about it but the chain is adjusted to spec. When my rear tire was changed I asked the mechanic at the dealership about this, he told me that it's normal and nothing to worry about, because once the bike is loaded, in gear and move, the chain will clear the swingarm.
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: Dirty Duc on March 18, 2013, 10:22:01 PM
A "tight" chain that is fine 1-up will be very tight 2-up.  Depending on your riding habits, this can stretch the chain faster than expected.  Loose chains lay on the slider (it's purpose).  Tighter front sprockets enhance the effect.

Case in point: Duc chain and sprockets last ~10k miles.  Vstrom is still within spec at 11k.  The difference is in front sprocket size.  If anything, I am harder on the chain for the zook (zook is 530 compared to 525, but I am an hooligan).
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: Howie on March 19, 2013, 04:07:27 AM
Over 23K on my last chain, negligible sprocket wear.
Title: Re: Chain rubbing top of swingarm
Post by: jerryz on March 19, 2013, 01:38:00 PM
thats why it is better to go for a larger rear sprocket than a smaller 14T when gearing down .

i went 15 -43 on my S4 from 15 -39  much better