Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: Rickrides on March 20, 2013, 09:24:44 PM

Title: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: Rickrides on March 20, 2013, 09:24:44 PM
I have the belts.  How much should it cost to have a shop in So Cal replace them?

I've called Bert's Mega Mall in Covina twice and have been quoted $50 twice but I've heard they are the kings of "bait and switch" sales tactics.  The Ducati dealer in OC quoted me about $200 for what seems like a fairly simple job.  I'd do it myself but don't have the tool to properly "tune" the tension and if you screw that up you could have expensive issues.  For $50 it's a no brainer--Bert's on Saturday.  But for $200 I'll probably try to do it myself. 

Thanks!
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: Dirty Duc on March 20, 2013, 09:29:08 PM
If you have a 5mm allen wrench, you have a tool to measure tension to "good enough" and certainly more repeatably than the twanger method.  Just check the tension every oil change if you ride it in such a fashion as to make it hot.  My belts stretch sometimes.
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: Buckethead on March 20, 2013, 11:07:54 PM
^^^ This.

The "tuner" method only came into use with the DualSpark cylinder heads.

How many miles does the bike have? When were the valve clearances last checked? What services, specifically, were involved with the dealer service?

Maintaining your own bike is pretty easy if you know what you're doing, but sometimes it's nice to have a solid baseline to work from.
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: Slide Panda on March 21, 2013, 07:20:03 AM
Yeah, on a 900, the 5mm method has seen mine to 34,000 miles and still running strong.

That's $50, might just be the labor only. It's not a hard, nor long job to do. Half hour if you're hustling. But that cannnot be the total cost as belts are $40 a pop
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: Rickrides on March 21, 2013, 09:36:21 AM
I have the belts already.  Bought them on the internets.  If it's a half-hour job the $50 makes sense and I'd rather have a pro shop do that particular job.  Once I get more comfortable with the Ducati I may take this job on.  The bike is a 2000 with 4,700 miles on it. 

I do most of the maintenance on my bikes, including valve adjustments on my Kawi ZRX.  However, as the cams have to come out to change shims, I am NOT doing the valve adjust on my wife's Yamaha FZ-6!  It's going to the dealership for that. 
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: ajw85 on March 21, 2013, 11:48:37 AM
+1 on DIY.
Hardest part is not losing the screws.
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: JoeP on March 21, 2013, 12:34:46 PM
+2 on DIY. I did mine a week after I got my first bike having ZERO experience working on a motorcycle. Then I blew up the engine heads. NAHHH!! Just kidding! It went fine and took about an hour. Second time, it took about 30 minutes start to finish, and that's on a 4V. No special tools are required, just a set of allen wrenches and a torque wrench. Maybe a guitar tuner if you want to measure tension that way. Mark everything (cam wheel positions, number of belt teeth between reference points, etc.) before taking off the belts. The marks from the factory don't line up!

BTW, on 4V testastretta engines, does the allen wrench method still work??
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: Privateer on March 21, 2013, 07:15:20 PM
Quote from: Rickrides on March 21, 2013, 09:36:21 AM
I have the belts already.  Bought them on the internets.  If it's a half-hour job the $50 makes sense and I'd rather have a pro shop do that particular job.  Once I get more comfortable with the Ducati I may take this job on.  The bike is a 2000 with 4,700 miles on it. 

I do most of the maintenance on my bikes, including valve adjustments on my Kawi ZRX.  However, as the cams have to come out to change shims, I am NOT doing the valve adjust on my wife's Yamaha FZ-6!  It's going to the dealership for that. 

I can understand your trepidation, but it's a pretty simple job.  I watched this a few times before I did my own:
Ducatitech.com "HowTo" Ducati Timing Belt Change (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vzPZ84ZRjU#)

I'm surprised any shop will do it with the belt you take them.  Shop rate is like $90/hour so $200 adds up pretty quick.
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: puddles on July 23, 2013, 04:19:22 PM
I am in the middle of this. I have the front belt set, but i have no stand and my motor is together. I am turning the motor over by bumping the bike forward while in gear (plugs removed) Can't I just use the mark on the cover to set tdc on the vertical cylinder? Just rotate the motor (crank) 360 degrees right? Actually I don't see the point of rotating the motor to set the vertical cylinder. Is this because of the tension that the vertical cylinder cam gear?
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: puddles on July 23, 2013, 06:15:09 PM
Ok I figured out a way to do it. The cam gear actually rotates 180 degrees, at which point the sight glass covering the flywheel will show the mark on the flywheel aligning with the pointer inside the cover. It came out good.
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: hooligan machinist on July 23, 2013, 06:28:14 PM
Quote from: puddles on July 23, 2013, 06:15:09 PM
Ok I figured out a way to do it. The cam gear actually rotates 180 degrees, at which point the sight glass covering the flywheel will show the mark on the flywheel aligning with the pointer inside the cover. It came out good.

That's great! Way to go, taking the bull by the horns.
Now take some of that money you saved and have a  [drink].
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: brad black on July 23, 2013, 06:53:14 PM
you turn the engine 270 degrees (135 at the timing shaft) for vertical tdc firing from where all the marks line up.

at that point the timing shaft dot (that you line up with the case line for horizontal tdc firing) is at 3 o'clock, or pointing at the front cam if you like.
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: puddles on July 23, 2013, 07:14:36 PM
Quote from: brad black on July 23, 2013, 06:53:14 PM
you turn the engine 270 degrees (135 at the timing shaft) for vertical tdc firing from where all the marks line up.

at that point the timing shaft dot (that you line up with the case line for horizontal tdc firing) is at 3 o'clock, or pointing at the front cam if you like.

Exactly! It was actually easy to rotate the motor in this manner. I also don't agree with the service interval of 7000 miles for cam belts.
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: Speeddog on July 23, 2013, 08:34:49 PM
Quote from: puddles on July 23, 2013, 07:14:36 PM
~~~SNIP~~~
I also don't agree with the service interval of 7000 miles for cam belts.

Who told you that the belt service interval was 7000?
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: suzyj on July 24, 2013, 01:43:06 AM
7000 sounds nuts.

What is the service interval for belts, anyway? I know on my car it's 160,000km, which blows my mind.
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: Privateer on July 24, 2013, 08:12:07 AM
Quote from: suzyj on July 24, 2013, 01:43:06 AM
7000 sounds nuts.

What is the service interval for belts, anyway? I know on my car it's 160,000km, which blows my mind.

I was always told 2 years or 12k miles.  I will throw out, however, I let a set of belts go about 30,000 miles just to see what would happen (props to ExactFit belts).

Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: alibaba on July 24, 2013, 09:35:39 PM
2009 M696 - As I recall the first and only time I replaced my belts I just set the marks to change the horizontal cylinder and then marked the location of the vertical cam gear on the gear and the case.
I didn't move the engine at all.  Don't understand why the engine has to be rotated once set in place and all is marked?
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: Howie on July 24, 2013, 10:47:37 PM
If you didn't get it right and you hit the starter  [bang] ,  gently, by hand will give you a second shot.
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: brad black on July 25, 2013, 07:58:21 PM
you set the belt tension with the cylinder at tdc firing.  so you fit, tension horizontal, rotate engine 270 degrees, tension vertical.

well, I fit them, turn the engine over several times with the belts at approx. tension to have them work they way into where they want to run (and so you know nothing hits), then go to the tdc firing positions to tension.
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: alibaba on July 25, 2013, 09:35:41 PM
Thanks Brad, but let me be sure I get it.  The belt tension is dependent on pistion position because there is more tension on the belt at the location I slide in my 5mm Allen wrench when the valve is being opened or closed?  Even though there is no valve spring to tension the belt?

I would have thought that sans valve springs, the tension was pretty much constant at any piston location?
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: suzyj on July 26, 2013, 12:51:25 AM
There's a keeper spring on the closing rocker. That's what fights you when you spin the camshaft with the plugs out.
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: alibaba on July 26, 2013, 07:46:51 PM
Thanks Suzy - I was aware that spring existed but never having seen one, I thought it was a small weak spring that would not effect belt tension.
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: Privateer on July 27, 2013, 09:29:35 AM
Ducatitech.com "HowTo" Ducati Timing Belt Change (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vzPZ84ZRjU#)
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: Thermite on July 29, 2013, 09:14:03 PM
Quote from: JoeP on March 21, 2013, 12:34:46 PM
BTW, on 4V testastretta engines, does the allen wrench method still work??

No, you use the tuning software.  Easy free download stuff but you need a remote microphone to get in the case.  Tune each cylinder at TDC so the valves are closed with no spring pressure.

For the 4-valves it's important to have a cam-locking tool.  You *can* get the belt on without it but it's not worth the savings.
Title: Re: Cost to Replace Cam Belts in So Cal
Post by: BK_856er on July 30, 2013, 12:07:06 AM
Quote from: alibaba on July 26, 2013, 07:46:51 PM
Thanks Suzy - I was aware that spring existed but never having seen one, I thought it was a small weak spring that would not effect belt tension.

Here's an example of tension vs. position (not my data!):

(http://i41.tinypic.com/1smejs.jpg)

BK