Ducati Monster Forum

OMG consumer reports, you've unlocked the secret of the universe!

Consumer Reports: BMW & Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Are Less Reliable than Japanese OEMs
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/consumer-reports-motorcycle-reliability/ (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/consumer-reports-motorcycle-reliability/)

Also in no big shock, folks are less likely to repeat buy the Japanese brands vs BMW or HDs
"In its May issue, Consumer Reports dives into the topic of motorcycle reliability, and confirms what many of us already knew: bikes from BMW and Harley-Davidson were reported to be less reliable than those from the Japanese OEMs.

Interestingly enough however, BMW and Harley-Davidson owners were also far more likely to make a repeat-purchase with their chosen brand than were owners of Japanese motorcycles, sans those of Hondas, which scored just slightly lower than BMW and Harley-Davidson on customer retention."

For BMW owners, this says it all:

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4a-uQXqPB_g/UVRYEUAQh7I/AAAAAAAAAHA/AADHXE4ES8s/w480-h480/image.jpg)

I'm as happy to bag on Beemers & HD as anybody (ask my friend George, who switches from one to the other every ten years or so, and whose best stories all start "I was broken down fifty miles from...").

But to bash them for unreliability on a Ducati forum has just a bit of special to it.  ;D

FWIW, George's favorite rejoinder is to ask me how the electrical system renovation is going on my 1998 ST2.

Oh I felt a touch of irony posting here.

Though I must say that my 900 has been a champ. The only real ailment it's had is that the starter solenoid started to crap out a bit ago- and that's in almost 40k miles. $45 later and that (should) be that once the part arrives.

My Ducati monster has been just as reliable as my Yamaha FZ6, well not exactly. The Yamaha had a faulty TPS. So my Ducati has been more reliable than the Yamaha. :D

The 06 monster leaks a bit under load (out the breather box), and the clutch pushrod seal gave up the ghost after 37k (10 minute fix with a box full of o-rings handy).

The 12 V-strom is going in for it's second pushrod seal replacement (this time including the pushrod) in 11k (and it's a special order).  Piss poor design in my opinion.  Apparently all Suzukis have the clutch pushrod in the open right in front of the chain... so if you actually ride it, it collects dirt and ruins the seal.  The second one lasted less than 100 miles.

The real problem with BMWs is the catastrophic level of the failures.  Driveshafts, final drives, and leaking cylinder heads.

 And don't forget clutch splines!

and replacing the clutch/lubing the clutch splines is more involved than replacing the clutch in a car.  You have to disassemble the entire damn bike!

This.

+1 on this.

But it is fun bashin' 'em anyway though  ;)

+2 [laugh]

Question though, how good are HD and BMW with recalls and warranty compared to Ducati? More goodwill or no better?

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/Jervisaurus/567-ducati-making-mechanics-out-of-riders-since-1946.jpg)

BMW just makes it too difficult to work on their stuff to make mechanics out of riders!  ;D

^^^ Nice

Every brand has stories of "never had one problem" and "its been at the shop more than in my garage". I really wish Ducati was included in the sample size. We would be right up there for loyalty. One thing I've noticed with Ducs is that they seem to have less problems the more miles you rack up, Am I crazy or correct?  Most of the gremlins get sorted out early. Also Ducati is making strides in quality and service intervals. It also helps to have a great community surrounding your choice of ride   ;D

BMW has had and continues to have problems.

As for me, I have spent far more on BMW maintenance than I have spent on my Monster. Because of this, I no longer own a BMW bike. If I were to buy another BMW, it would be a late 70s airhead.

Perhaps this will help answer your question WRT BMW:

http://www.affordablebeemerservices.com/bmwthoughts/

Wow, they make Ducati look not half bad.

WOW -I had no idea that Beemers had got so bad, I thought they were still the height of reliability.

BMWs have not been "more reliable" since the airhead.

In other news, Earth orbits the Sun.

 I just skimmed a bit of that, and the part about clutch splines is true, butt also they have chronic failure of rear main seals in front of the clutch, which require dismantling most of the bike to get to!

As an owner and a previous owner of more than a handful of vehicles deemed 'unreliable', I often wonder at how this comes about.  I have also owned and own vehicles deemed 'reliable'.  Particularly, I think the higher end cars and bikes are usually bought new by people that make lots of money and spend lots of time making it.  Therefore they have less time to spend maintaining those things they buy and may have an unrealistic expectation of how those things should perform.  That, in turn, may make these self important people complain louder and more often, making the perception of the masses into one of unreliability.  The 'unreliable' vehicles I own/ed have been no better or worse than others.  I really think that some marques attract people that have mis-managed expectations.

I mean no offense to owners of these marques (I am one: Land Rover, BMW cars and bike, Ducati), but just musing.  I also never by new and have expectations that ALL vehicles will need maintenance sooner or later. 

Cheers, people!  [beer] And happy Easter..

I confirm...   knew nothing about mechanic before having a Duc... now it's just funny when i  go to the  store and ask for a 1/4 8mm long  socket ...lol  :o  [laugh]

I have had a Pinzgauer, a Land Rover, A VW Baja bug and a Buell at the same time.  All I can say is WTF was I thinking!   I have a feeling my 2013 M1100 Evo is going to be at least as reliable as any Japanese bike I have owned.  It's just a feeling but I hope it lasts.

Never known anyone, myself included, who has had any problems with their HD.   265,000 bikes a year versus 30,000 implies law of averages will dictate failures. 

wait, I had a flat.  >:( >:(
All kidding aside the simplicity for me is what I'm after.  I'm all for those who want fancy gadgets but I like to tussle and experience of the bike making me respond to her, granted my Electra Glide is a Geezer glider for sure but she's still unwieldy at times and I enjoy that fact.  My S4R is just the same and has no fancy crap to speak of like ABS and such.  Hey, that's just me and I do appreciate those who enjoy more things...if you ride two wheels you're a brother of mine regardless of brand - we all know Ducati's to be the best though.  [thumbsup]

I'm big on BMW's and Ducati's.  I typically put 80,000 or so on the BMW's before I sell it to buy another.  I never had an issue other than some burnt out head light bulbs.  I have 30,000 on the GS, no problems whatsoever.  I maintain all my bikes and I believe that's why I've had such good service.  The chances of me owning a Japanese bike is unlikely (except for the WR250R).

For me "reliability" (as in mean time between failures) isn't really the key... mean time to repair is.  I hated doing the clutch on the BMW.  I also hated doing the clutch on Mazdas (RX-7 and Miata) because of the silly engine/trans mounting arrangement.

I don't really like repairing the Mustang, but at least parts (upgrades) are cheap. 

I'm kind of annoyed at Suzuki... I just got the clutch pushrod and pushrod seal replaced for the second time yesterday, and it looks like it still leaks.  I bought it new last year, only 11.5k miles... and it leaks like an old Triumph. 

You probably have a point about some of these owners having higher expectations and being in the words of the former BMW sales guy here "snivelers."   However,  BMW's are not reliable by anyone's standards.   I recall reading through the Iron Butt rallye list of non-finishers one year and it was incredible the number of BMW's that could not run for 10,000 miles without a major malfunction.  My '66 Triumph Bonneville has been far more reliable than my BMW K-bike.   BMW dealers also tend to try to blame any bike problem on the owner.  Pretty sure this is a formal part of the BMW dealership training.

Have to agree first time duc owner only gripe was regulator let go and fried the battery and a chip in the clocks. I've done 12000 miles in 18 mths.

For some reason i keep thinking about the oil leak on the base gasket of my 750. It makes the cases messy. But so far the only thing thats broke on it was the rear brake master. That was a easy fix and not too costly.

The last Honda I owned had a rectifier go out and try to catch on fire. That was slightly more costly and took a little longer to fix because of a burnt connector, but I put  over 50K on that thing with no other problems.